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User Topic: 6 years and not much reason for my BS to hope
1DumbHusband
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Member # 40239
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


You seem to think that as long as you avoid going online then everything will be ok. I would caution you about this. As gonna pointed out, this is your trigger, not the reason. You need to get down to why you did this. You mentioned conflict avoidance, are you looking into that?

Part of the question earlier was what am i doing to avoid the triggers. I haven't looked into conflict avoidance yet. Part of the whys (for me) involve my justifying my actions based on what I perceived (wrongly) my BS was doing. I also felt I needed validation which is why I had the online affairs over the course of our relationship. I have told my BS that when we first got together, my self esteem issues told me I was a rebound relationship for her as she had just gotten a divorce. Part of me never let go of that mentality in a lot of ways. I'm still digging into me, it's just taking more time to dig through the layers.

[Quote]Also worry about what your W was doing, what is she doing about the fact that she also cheated? Is she working on her own why? So you feel safe that she isn't going to do this again?

Her whys were a result of the poor treatment she received from me. I know I spent too much time on my hobbies and my interests away from the family. Couple that with my job that took me away 3-4 days a week and I can see why she would feel like I didn't care or that I didn't want to be with her. Do I feel safe? The answer is yes.

[Quote]You mention boredom, is this a problem for you? There were many other choices for you, why didn't you make a healthy choice?

I think I had gotten use to going online for so long (6 years ironically between my previous relationship and the relationship with my BS) that I became numb and "used to doing it". Hence the addiction aspect. It became second nature and where I used to go for validation and "fake intimacy". I would often seek this when I was bored or as a nightly habit. Boredom in and of itself is not the reason. I think it was boredom coupled with opportunity with my online habits. The healthy choice would have been talking to my wife. I've had issues being confrontational (that's one of her biggest complaints about me). As far as why I didn't choose the healthy choice...I'm still working on that. There were probably 1000 healthier choices than the one I made.

My wife suspected the same and never confronted. Not because she didn't care, but for a combination of reasons including denial.

Thanks Marx! My wonderful BS wonders why I didn't confront her and often argues its because I didn't care. Would you care to elaborate on your post further?

[This message edited by 1DumbHusband at 1:21 AM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


Me: FWH 34
Her: 31 and deserving much better than I've given her (CCW82)
Married 4 years, together 6 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
"Don't give up. You're married until you're not. You never know what tomorrow will bring."

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Dallas
mrmarx
♂ New Member
Member # 38357
Default  Posted: 2:00 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1dumbhusband: I wouldn't want to speak too much on my wife's behalf but form what I understand.
1) Deep denial that it was possible
2) combination with me telling her she had trust issues
3) I think she wanted to stick her head in the sand because she knew it would blow up
4) She actually wanted to trust me and blamed herself for not trusting me

there are further reasons but I think those ones she would not be happy with me divulging.

Also, I just wanted to comment on:

Her whys were a result of the poor treatment she received from me. I know I spent too much time on my hobbies and my interests away from the family. Couple that with my job that took me away 3-4 days a week and I can see why she would feel like I didn't care or that I didn't want to be with her. Do I feel safe? The answer is yes.

Unfortunately it would make my life a lot easier with my pyscologist and wife if I could claim half of those reasons as my whys. In general from what i've read SI posters would not see that as a why either. The point is there are always options. Since you are both wayward spouses I would recommend both finding out why you did it.

Just as my wife had different options instead of falling into deep denial, she has to work on that for herself to ensure that she feels like when life is shit she can do something about it. Which if the deep denial is what you had, that needs to be worked on for yourself.


Christ what a year!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Aus
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:29 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When was your most recent affair / infidelity / inappropriate chatting / whatever?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6100 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
ccw82
♀ Member
Member # 40133
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mrmarx:

Just as my wife had different options instead of falling into deep denial, she has to work on that for herself to ensure that she feels like when life is shit she can do something about it.

To answer your comment, this is what I wrote on another thread about my own revelations:

Basically, since day one of our relationship, 1DH has been gas lighting me. I thought I was doing everything right -- reading books on how to have a happy marriage, always being open and honest with him about my feelings and things I saw...especially that I was uneasy about his "friend". He would always turn it around on me and make me feel like I was the crazy one for having those thoughts and feelings! He did this over the course of 6 years, so I got beaten down pretty badly. My self esteem and self worth has plummeted over the years because he was telling me that it was my problem, and that I was crazy, yet I kept seeing things and he kept doing things that made me constantly question his intentions and true feelings for me.

*Disclaimer: WHAT I DID WAS WRONG, and I have no excuse or justification! This is just a rundown of what I was going through at the time.*

In 2011, I had given up medical school to have a family with him (yes, MEDICAL SCHOOL -- I was going to be a doctor!). I got pregnant, then miscarried. Got pregnant, then miscarried. Got pregnant, then miscarried...I was in a hurricane of hormones and emotions, and he was living his life like "no big deal"...carrying on with all of his hobbies and sports and such. He also traveled for work (he mentioned in his other post that he was a pilot, so he was gone 3 - 4 days per week). Oh, and he was in grad school for his MBA, so school work took up a lot of his "home time" as well. I started feeling very lonely because as soon as he would get home for work, ZIP! He was right back out the door again to *this hobby* or *that hobby*. He would tell me he loved me, and that these issues were all in my head, but I didn't feel that his actions were showing it. With one part revenge, two parts validation-seeking, I started going online to solicit responses from other men that I was "good enough". If 1DH didn't think I was worth it, surely someone else would?

Off and on, for about 3 months during the summer of 2011, I was online soliciting responses from men. I finally snapped out of it when I started an EA with someone we knew, and after two months of emails back and forth, he started calling me. I realized that it had gone too far, and I ended it. Although I didn't disclose the entire truth, I told 1DH what had happened and promised never to do it again. He was surprisingly understanding...but then again, I hadn't told him the extent to which I had carried on (I basically told him it was overly flirtatious, but it had actually gotten very sexual in nature).

It was SOOOO wrong of me to do it, then to lie to him! It turns out he knew all along, but never let me know (until this May, that is). I realized why I did those things, and fortunately I never did them again. When it all came out in May, I was so ashamed! I knew it was wrong of what I'd done, and I showed him how remorseful I was. I am still very remorseful of what I did, and have not even been tempted to repeat that behavior. I just wish 1DH would have communicated HIS feelings so we could be on the same page!


Me: 31
WH (1DumbHusband): 35
Married 5 years, together 7 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
TTs that came out as late as January 2014

"One is not tempted by that he does not want."


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Dallas, TX
mrmarx
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Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CW82

I'm assuming the way you described medical school it is a status thing? You did not have to give up a dream to have a family with him. You chose too.

Look I actually feel really uncomfortable with posting and judging other people, so I'm just going to go back to reading threads after this post unless you address something to me again for a reply etc. There's something about broken people helping broken people that doesn't seem to be too healthy.

I can't comment on miscarriages except after seeing my mother go through them they are a special type of pain. My heart goes out to you but, you chose to keep trying again and again.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get out of this post. There is a lot of blame shifting, you sound like a victim and to be honest I don't need to know the whole sordid story of both of your affairs. I think you would be better served figuring out the whys of why you did infact all of what you wrote in your post. You would also be better served actually figuring out a strategy for yourself going forward.

I am still very remorseful of what I did, and have not even been tempted to repeat that behavior. I just wish 1DH would have communicated HIS feelings so we could be on the same page!

Whenever you say you did something shit you turn it around like oh dearrr, but 1dumbhusband is shitter!

Hence, I hear a lot of blame on 1dumbhusband, and whilst it may be a possibility he gallantly says that he feels safe and it was his fault etc etc. You both, which means you included, actually need to fix yourselves otherwise you will have a shit marriage. You sound very co-dependant (like my wife), and in some ways your story mirrors my wife... including the medical school part (ended up not being able to go)... including me having 'hobbies' (in my case various work projects all times of the night), including the friend you don't like. Edited to add: just wanted to make it clear that she never cheated.

But either way you need to actually start owning your actions instead of painting yourself as a victim and him as the criminal. When infact when it came to your soliciting and disrespecting your family. You were the perpetrator, and he was the victim. His affairs are a separate issue, it seems like you are trying to get off scott free, you're only going to hurt your husband and yourself by doing that

Okay, unless you want to talk about it more, I'm just going to go back to reading posts

Just re-read this and it sounded way to harsh so I wanted to say yes you are a victim of his affair(s) and I understand you must be in a lot of pain. I do think you deserve a fulfilling resceptful marriage and that is why I believe you both need to work on your infidelities so that you can have what you not only want but also deserve.

[This message edited by mrmarx at 8:53 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


Christ what a year!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Aus
ccw82
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Member # 40133
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm assuming the way you described medical school it is a status thing? You did not have to give up a dream to have a family with him. You chose too.

No, medical school is not a "status thing", it's just very difficult to achieve. I spent years preparing for, applying to, and then attending medical school.
You're correct, I chose to give up medical school to have a family with him. At the time I thought he was worth the sacrifice, but I'm learning now that I don't even know who he is.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get out of this post. There is a lot of blame shifting, you sound like a victim and to be honest I don't need to know the whole sordid story of both of your affairs. I think you would be better served figuring out the whys of why you did infact all of what you wrote in your post. You would also be better served actually figuring out a strategy for yourself going forward.

I was just being upfront about what I did. I flat out said I know what I did was wrong, no matter what excuses I used at the time, so I don't understand why you think I'm blame shifting? I never said he made me do it, or that he pushed me into it. It was a (poor) choice I made based on my own insecurities. I know why I did it, and I figured out my strategy a long time ago. I've been "moving forward" for quite a while.

Hence, I hear a lot of blame on 1dumbhusband, and whilst it may be a possibility he gallantly says that he feels safe and it was his fault etc etc.

Yes, he does speak gallantly about the situation. I hear the same thing at home. It sounds wonderful, doesn't it? It's all TALK. I'm waiting his actions to back up all of the TALKING he's been doing for the past 6 years. Therein lies my problem! He's been talking a good game, manipulating me by saying these wonderful things I want to hear. Meanwhile he's out dating other women and having sex with prostitutes behind my back. What I did was horrible, and I owned up to that (whether anyone here thinks so or not), but my actions did not bring home an STD to my spouse. Excuse me for sounding bitter about it.

You both, which means you included, actually need to fix yourselves otherwise you will have a shit marriage.

Agreed. Which is why we're both here on SI. We're both looking for guidance in how to handle this whole messy situation.

...including me having 'hobbies' (in my case various work projects all times of the night),

His hobbies took him away for days at a time, on top of the days he was gone for work. When I would voice my disdain, he brushed me off. My opinions and feelings did not matter to him.

including the friend you don't like.

The "friend" I spoke of earlier was the woman he was having an EA with in the beginning, but denying it by saying "she's just a friend". That is why I didn't like her.

But either way you need to actually start owning your actions instead of painting yourself as a victim and him as the criminal. When infact when it came to your soliciting and disrespecting your family. You were the perpetrator, and he was the victim. His affairs are a separate issue, it seems like you are trying to get off scott free, you're only going to hurt your husband and yourself by doing that

I disclosed my indiscretions and took responsibility for what I did, so how is that trying to get off Scott free? I'm trying to understand. We are both to blame, but I've taken great steps to fix myself. I've been waiting for 1DH to do the same for a long time, but he's been in denial that anything has been wrong (on his part). And up until lately, he's also been unwilling to communicate his thoughts and feelings. That's the difference, and that's what I'm trying to get out of this post.


Me: 31
WH (1DumbHusband): 35
Married 5 years, together 7 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
TTs that came out as late as January 2014

"One is not tempted by that he does not want."


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Dallas, TX
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What mrmarx is trying to say to you, and honestly your own thread on this would be better, is that every time you discuss what you did, there is a but after it and something your H did comes after that "but".

Your actions stand alone.

Just like mine did. Do I get a pass because of what my H did for 18 yrs prior to me sleeping with someone because I couldn't handle all of it? Do I get to put a "but" he did this and that prior to what I did? Or do I make it a stand alone event and deal with my shit separately?

See what I did had nothing to do with my H. Just as what you did had nothing to do with your H.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5044 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
ccw82
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Member # 40133
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I apologize, maybe I wasn't properly expressing what I wanted to say earlier. I wasn't trying to convey that "I did _____, but 1DH did _____." I was just laying out the facts from the time it happened.

We both learned about my indiscretions, discovered the whys, and moved on knowing they would never happen again. My actions have matched my words. I'm waiting for it to be mutual.

Thank you both for your feedback.


Me: 31
WH (1DumbHusband): 35
Married 5 years, together 7 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
TTs that came out as late as January 2014

"One is not tempted by that he does not want."


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Dallas, TX
1DumbHusband
♂ Member
Member # 40239
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When was your most recent affair / infidelity / inappropriate chatting / whatever?

US: it was in June right before DDay. I flirted inappropriately with a classmate from a work training class. Prior to that, we had a "mini DDay" when my wife learned about my online chatting addiction.


Me: FWH 34
Her: 31 and deserving much better than I've given her (CCW82)
Married 4 years, together 6 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
"Don't give up. You're married until you're not. You never know what tomorrow will bring."

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Dallas
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:30 AM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If 1DH didn't think I was worth it, surely someone else would?

Like you? Until you do the rest of this shit show is irrelevant.

Not going to address your choices involving others. I'm just going to ask why are you together? You are very clear that this has been an unhealthy relationship where you've been emotionally abandoned and lied to. So, why are you still there? Even if you love him, which based on your list would be a curious response, what is keeping you in this marriage?

He isn't there for you emotionally or physically. Neither are you. You're not there for yourself either. You're willing to even take up where he leaves off by betraying yourself with your own choices.

You're looking for change in him. Do you shop that way? You need milk, cheese and eggs. You pick up bananas, grapefruit and cereal. Do you think those items will somehow morph into the milk, cheese and eggs you need just because you really want tem to? Can you imagine explaining those choices and actions? Why are you upset? Well, I need milk cheese and eggs. So why did you get bananas, grapefruit and cereal? Because I need milk, cheese, and eggs so I'm just going to wait until these become them.

That's insane, right? You'd seriously think someon was a bubble shy of plumb if you heard that. That's with something insignificant. Why on earth would you do this exact thing in your personal life affecting your presen and future?

You need to look at what you have right this moment. Can you live with that? If not, you have your answer.

I was accepted to two top tier law schools. Got married instead. I made a choice. I...made...a...choice. Part of it worked out really well, part didn't. So...next...


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:08 AM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just me personally, I feel uncomfortable with Mrs. 1DH posting on this thread, so I'm gonna ignore her posts.

it was in June right before DDay

What was happening when the switch in your head said "go for it"?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6100 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
mrmarx
♂ New Member
Member # 38357
Default  Posted: 3:10 AM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel unfortunately like I need to reply to this.

1. Completely agree with tired girl's assertion about the buts, this is what I was trying to put across to you

2. I personally don't think you have worked through your 'whys' because it relies basically on 1dumbhusband's actions

3. This is something I am still trying to figure out for myself: It's not being a passive spectator in my life, it's not being a victim. Because if I am a victim then that means I have no power to change my future, I will simply always be a victim. Do you want that to be your future?

4. I think it may be best to do your own thread in the wayward section, I know that may seem frightening but in the end it seems for all the transgressions on both sides you both want this to work.

I understand you feel the need to defend yourself on his threads but I really think it detracts from 1dumbhusband's advice.

Finally

My actions have matched my words. I'm waiting for it to be mutual.

To be frank, I don't see that at all. You lied until DDAY came so honestly I don't see that matching any actions whatsoever.

Hence, I hear a lot of blame on 1dumbhusband, and whilst it may be a possibility he gallantly says that he feels safe and it was his fault etc etc.

I think I left that part of the post to misconception: I meant he might gallantly believe that he feels safe and it was his fault for your affair but I would think that through deeper exploration of this, that may not be the case.


You can tell I think my wife is awesomely smart because I will relay something she tells me over and over again.

Cheating is a destination, for it to be a destination there are choices to get there. What that means is you constantly lied, outright and by admission for a couple of years. I don't see how your actions are matching your words.

I understand the need to be defensive 100%. But I think if you don't want to listen to me about it, at least listen to tired girl and uncertainone because they are filled with wisdom based on experience.

Just going to finish it off with

I was accepted to two top tier law schools. Got married instead. I made a choice. I...made...a...choice. Part of it worked out really well, part didn't. So...next...

Exactly

[This message edited by mrmarx at 3:22 AM, September 5th (Thursday)]


Christ what a year!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Aus
mrmarx
♂ New Member
Member # 38357
Default  Posted: 3:31 AM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To 1dumbhusband,

I became numb and "used to doing it". Hence the addiction aspect. It became second nature and where I used to go for validation and "fake intimacy". I would often seek this when I was bored or as a nightly habit. Boredom in and of itself is not the reason. I think it was boredom coupled with opportunity with my online habits. The healthy choice would have been talking to my wife.

I just wanted to say I can completely understand and relate to this. For me in addition it was an instant 'fix'. How did you feel afterwards? I would feel very strange and empty. Was this the same for you?

Did you ever have stints where you tried to go cold turkey? aka "this is bad I won't let this happen again, i'll behave" How did you feel about yourself during those periods of times? My pyscholgoist has me on Cognitive behavoural journalling I've found it very useful. Especially since you talk about feeling you were in a rebound relationship. Looking back on it now, was there any comments that were said that really made you feel that way? I've found when I did the mental inventory of this I discovered after a day of reflection that there was comments said but when using cognitive behavoural techniques they were 'false' thoughts in relation to the comments

In terms of online activities, I agree it is a temporary fix to a much deeper problem. However a good step in the right direction. I also understand the travelling part on both yourself and your wife. I know when I've gone on week travelling trips or 3 days etc it can be weird getting back into the relationship part, do you find that as well?


Christ what a year!

Posts: 37 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Aus
1DumbHusband
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Member # 40239
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone (including my Beautiful BS) for contributing to this thread. I think getting input from different people helps us address issues.

Like you? Until you do the rest of this shit show is irrelevant...He isn't there for you emotionally or physically. Neither are you. You're not there for yourself either. You're willing to even take up where he leaves off by betraying yourself with your own choices.

While I appreciate input, I feel this comment is a little offensive. I would prefer this be an open dialogue about my own issues, not a back and forth between my issues and my poor BS's issues. So if we could keep this thread on my issues, I would appreciate it. I don't want CCW to feel attacked or put on the defensive because people are seeing us both post to this thread and it becomes a he said she said type of argument.

Let me be perfectly blunt: I, and me alone, caused the situation CCW and I currently find ourselves. For 6 years, I was the one who was not committed 100% to my marriage. I was the one who made the wrong choices over and over again. So what I am looking for is help for me to look into my issues. Help for me to ask the right questions of myself so I can get to the root of my own issues. Help for me to be a safe person moving forward for CCW and my family. I DO NOT feel (in any way whatsoever) that CCW would have done what she did had I not been so deceitful and selfish ALL THROUGH our relationship up until DDay. Therefore that is why I said earlier that I DO feel safe in that she would not repeat her transgressions. If I change and be the husband, the man, and the person she thought she fell in love with, I know in my heart I have nothing to fear.

You need to look at what you have right this moment. Can you live with that? If not, you have your answer.

Well here is where I differ in my opinion. We are still very fresh/recent from DDay. At this moment, CCW is still confused about her feelings. She agonizes daily over my actions and whether I can change...for good. Right at this moment, it's literally a flip of a coin (which we've done ironically). She wants to believe in me and believe in us. However the wounds are still fresh and there's still healing to be done. She has said she honestly wants me to change and make the changes "stick" for good so she can feel safe and we can truly R. I want nothing more than to change and for those changes to be permanent so that CCW can feel safe again.

Just me personally, I feel uncomfortable with Mrs. 1DH posting on this thread, so I'm gonna ignore her posts.

US: I apologize for making this thread feel uncomfortable, but CCW and I are working on transparency and we have agreed that we can respond to each others threads provided they don't attack one another. I do not feel CCW is attacking me in her posts in this thread. She's expressing facts about my actions over the past 6 (yes SIX years...that's a long time!) years. She's understandably bitter and upset. She offered up information regarding her actions as well. The last thing I would want is for someone (anyone) to read my posts and make me out to be a victim or somehow think I am more remorseful than CCW. She acknowledges her mistakes in our relationship as well. Compared to my indiscretions, hers were minor in comparison and I feel they were a result of what I was showing (or not showing) her.

What was happening when the switch in your head said "go for it"?

I knew it was wrong but I figured it would be something that would "stay in class" and wouldn't be an issue once I was through with the class. I realize now how that could have laid the foundation for more later. It gave the wrong impression and it could potentially lead to a slippery slope of future bad choices. I have realized I had problems setting the correct boundaries and adhering to those boundaries.


Me: FWH 34
Her: 31 and deserving much better than I've given her (CCW82)
Married 4 years, together 6 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
"Don't give up. You're married until you're not. You never know what tomorrow will bring."

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Dallas
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While I appreciate input, I feel this comment is a little offensive. I would prefer this be an open dialogue about my own issues, not a back and forth between my issues and my poor BS's issues. So if we could keep this thread on my issues, I would appreciate it. I don't want CCW to feel attacked or put on the defensive because people are seeing us both post to this thread and it becomes a he said she said type of argument.

If she has reading comprehension, which I'm sure she does, she won't feel attacked at all but empowered. There is no he said she said. Just similar thought processess so actually universally applied.

You could take that exact same advice.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
rachelc
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Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think where people get stuck is this: they give all sorts of reasons for having an affair but they’re not “really” the reasons. They say, “my husband beat me so I had an affair.” No, you had an affair because you didn’t know how to handle the stress in your life. You felt powerless so you took it upon yourself to get some power. You turned to someone else to feel good (be that validation or whatever) because you felt crappy. Doesn’t really matter HOW you got to crappy.

But what we DO need to figure out is why we turned in the affair direction, instead of a healthier direction such as IC – that’s what the WS needs to figure out. That’s the why. Not, “he did this so that’s why I did that” thing…


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5230 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
1DumbHusband
♂ Member
Member # 40239
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Marx: sorry I didn't want the last post to be ridiculously long.

2. I personally don't think you have worked through your 'whys' because it relies basically on 1dumbhusband's actions

4. ...but in the end it seems for all the transgressions on both sides you both want this to work.

My actions have matched my words. I'm waiting for it to be mutual.
To be frank, I don't see that at all. You lied until DDAY came so honestly I don't see that matching any actions whatsoever.

Hence, I hear a lot of blame on 1dumbhusband, and whilst it may be a possibility he gallantly says that he feels safe and it was his fault etc etc.

I think I left that part of the post to misconception: I meant he might gallantly believe that he feels safe and it was his fault for your affair but I would think that through deeper exploration of this, that may not be the case.

You can tell I think my wife is awesomely smart.

Cheating is a destination, for it to be a destination there are choices to get there. What that means is you constantly lied, outright and by admission for a couple of years. I don't see how your actions are matching your words.

I was accepted to two top tier law schools. Got married instead. I made a choice. I...made...a...choice. Part of it worked out really well, part didn't. So...next...

2. So here is something I have yet to fully grasp. When people state we haven't worked through our "why's", what more are you looking for? What other questions need pondering or answering. UnexpectedSong is asking some good ones I feel to help move this process for me. Not that you aren't, but I am just wondering how I should be looking at myself differently when addressing the "why's".

4. This is a very good observation Marx. We both want this to work. CCW is just reeling because this is still very fresh. She is confused and hurt. She's trying to hope in spite of evidence NOT to hope.

CCW has shown me more love in the past 6 years than I ever thought possible! Even though we both have actions we regret, when she said she loved me...her actions showed it. When I said the same things, my actions didn't always back up my words. I was guilty of that for a long time. I was in denial over my past actions and denial about how I was as a husband. I don't feel CCW is blame shifting, but merely stating facts. It's not being gallant accepting responsibility, for something I am clearly responsible for. I feel it's being a grown man and accepting what I did so that we can move forward. This is why I feel safe saying that had I not been a total sh*t for 6 years, CCW wouldn't have done the things she did. She is not inherently like that and her actions were uncharacteristic of who she was and who she IS. CCW is awesomely smart too! CCW could be in med school tomorrow if she wanted. She has the intelligence to breeze through med school. But she too made a choice to give up her dream to have a family with me! I hope she can heal and one day realize her dream of becoming a doctor.

For me in addition it was an instant 'fix'. How did you feel afterwards? I would feel very strange and empty. Was this the same for you?

Did you ever have stints where you tried to go cold turkey? aka "this is bad I won't let this happen again, i'll behave" How did you feel about yourself during those periods of times? Especially since you talk about feeling you were in a rebound relationship. Looking back on it now, was there any comments that were said that really made you feel that way? I've found when I did the mental inventory of this I discovered after a day of reflection that there was comments said but when using cognitive behavoural techniques they were 'false' thoughts in relation to the comments

In terms of online activities, I agree it is a temporary fix to a much deeper problem. However a good step in the right direction. I also understand the travelling part on both yourself and your wife. I know when I've gone on week travelling trips or 3 days etc it can be weird getting back into the relationship part, do you find that as well?

I did feel empty yet continued in spite of that. I did try cold turkey and even challenged myself at times to go a month or more without doing those activities. I would feel fine and eventually I would reason that going back to look a little bit wouldn't be bad but it always led to the same routine. The rebound issue was something I created in my mind because I didn't feel I was good enough. CCW (was when we met) a hot blonde and had recently divorced. Today she's a hot brunette! She didn't make comments directly about me being a rebound, but she was upfront about her marriage. She had told me she married for convenience before and that she didn't really "love" her ex. So I was apprehensive at first. However with us, I should have seen it was different. I hung onto her first words instead of judging by her actions. She bent over backwards for me, went to support me with hobbies (hockey, hunting, etc) and truly did love me. I should have seen that her actions were out of love rather than obligation. When I traveled, I would return home, spend time with CCW then go off to do hobbies. Sometimes she would tag along or watch. It was her way of being with me while I was busy being selfish. So it wasn't weird coming home but I wasn't putting my effort into the relationship like I should have!


Me: FWH 34
Her: 31 and deserving much better than I've given her (CCW82)
Married 4 years, together 6 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
"Don't give up. You're married until you're not. You never know what tomorrow will bring."

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Dallas
1DumbHusband
♂ Member
Member # 40239
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think where people get stuck is this: they give all sorts of reasons for having an affair but they’re not “really” the reasons. They say, “my husband beat me so I had an affair.” No, you had an affair because you didn’t know how to handle the stress in your life. You felt powerless so you took it upon yourself to get some power. You turned to someone else to feel good (be that validation or whatever) because you felt crappy. Doesn’t really matter HOW you got to crappy.
But what we DO need to figure out is why we turned in the affair direction, instead of a healthier direction such as IC – that’s what the WS needs to figure out. That’s the why. Not, “he did this so that’s why I did that” thing…

So I know on both mine and CCWs side, we both stated we felt we needed additional validation. For her, it's because she wasn't getting it from me because of my actions. This is why I can say I feel safe in that if my actions back up my words, I know that CCW would never have done what she did. As for me, I think I didn't know how to handle the difficult issues and difficult conversations. I know I have issues with conflict avoidance. I need to work on being more communicative and open with CCW so that she knows what I am thinking (whether good or bad). This is something I'm working on with CCW. As for your second question of why we make unhealthy choices, I think my negative self image issues led me to seek further validation. In a lot of ways, I was being selfish and immature. I had numerous hobbies which took me outside the house and neglected my wife and family. I focused only on myself instead of focusing on the family. That's something that will be changing for sure.


Me: FWH 34
Her: 31 and deserving much better than I've given her (CCW82)
Married 4 years, together 6 years.
D-Day: June 17th, 2013
"Don't give up. You're married until you're not. You never know what tomorrow will bring."

Posts: 121 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Dallas
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I knew it was wrong but I figured it would be something that would "stay in class" and wouldn't be an issue once I was through with the class.

Do you use this thought process a lot? It will "stay in class" (stay online, on a business trip, in whatever self-contained world)?

What class was it? Something you liked or something you did not like?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6100 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aside from the initial, minutes-after-discovery (and really NOT meant!), "Get out!" I did not ask my husband to leave lightly. I really, really wanted to reconcile. Like you and your wife, our issues were long-term, but I wanted to reconcile; I would venture to guess that, given the six-year staying power, your wife also would have preferred that outcome.

When I did ask him to leave, I meant it, and I meant it with very little anger or acrimony. I was just done.

That said, I was also open to another reconciliation attempt, even post-separation.

I would not assume that this is a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. If she's like me, separation will offer her relief and distance and perhaps pave the way for positive growth. It's hard to say whether that will be together or apart at this point--but really, either would be better than the current situation.

I'm sorry you're facing this. I hope that it creates a positive outcome for you both.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

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