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So working on the R and the other day I find undies in a bag WS took out to a meet a friend... swears they were just to feel sexy and says I am nuts for being upset about it. They were unworn, but I still say there was some ill intention there... I definitely was upset and hurt and lost my cool.

Am I being gaslighted? Am I nuts for feeling this is unacceptable? WS won't allow any access to the cell to check to see what is going on since that was the tool of the A. Am I off base to feel the burden of proof lies with WS? Where to go from here??

Still want to work on the M and know there are going to be hiccups... but this one really hurts.

[This message edited by LonelyBird461 at 12:41 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

WS won't allow any access to the cell to check to see what is going on

This is a major problem and unacceptable in a real reconciliation. You are not off base at all.

I would find the panties in the bag to be an issue as well.

Where are you at in your recovery? What boundaries have you established?

I have never brought spare sexy panties to change into with me anywhere. Ever. Unless I was staying overnight, with my husband.

She won't allow access to her phone..she refuses transparency?

Yeah...NO.

You can not R if she refuses transparency.

Full transparency or divorce papers..period.

Transparency is the most basic of needs after a dday.

And the panties..she's full of shit.

Im so sorry.

What *is* she doing to show you she wants to R?

She should be:

Transparent..you have full access to all accounts and phone..and passwords.

Accountable for her time when she isn't with you.

Did she get tested for STD's?

Send a NC email to OM..one you approved of and sent together.

Answer all of your questions without blame and anger.

In IC to figure out why she did this.

Drop all friends who knew of the A and didn't tell you.

What IS she doing?

She had been totally open and honest. Gone to MC, done a book study, worked on filling out sheets describing her wants and needs and reading and acting on the same from me. Full disclosure, asking permission to go with friends, spending lots of time with me, maintining contact and affection, etc etc.

The secrecy started in the past two or three weeks.

As a dude the only reason I can think of carrying undies in a bag anywhere is for a clean change.

No access to cell means she is hiding shit.

She's probably still cheating.

eta:

fixed the gender pronouns. Whoops.

I don't know why a woman would want to go feel sexy somewhere without her H other than to line up a cheat code, but I'm not a woman. I thought grannie panties were the norm once you got past Age Teenager.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 12:54 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

She... they were lacy ones.

And yeah, I have a change of undies at the gym that they wash there every day. That's the only reason I can come up with.

[This message edited by LonelyBird461 at 12:55 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

I would merely hold out my hand and say, "I want to see your phone now, or you can pack a bag and leave. Now. Your choice."

It's all kind of smelly and red flaggy. Sorry.

Gently,she is NOT being completely honest and open..as long as she is refusing to give you access to her phone,facebook,email,or anything else..as long as she refuses those passwords...she is not being open and honest.

I get the whole "invasion of privacy" argument now. First off, I thought marriage meant letting go of some of that "privacy" as two become one. My phone is not password protected and even today if my WS asked for a password to e-mail, facebook, computer, etc I would give it without reservation. Nothing to hide so I don't hide.

In fact that night when I asked for the phone she asked for mine back... and seemed shocked when I just handed it right on over. Then she said she really didn't want it to begin with.

Privacy only matters that badly when you want to hide something, right?

No..she no longer gets "privacy." She had that..and took advantage of it to have her affair.

Privacy is for the bathroom.

What she wants is secrecy.

You know what... that is a really good way to look at it. She wants secrecy. I didn't think anything I asked was out of the ordinary or extreme. My IC agrees as do my few friends who know what happened.

So the billion dollar question (inflation and all)... if I really want to get to R is it still time to make the 180?

[This message edited by LonelyBird461 at 1:17 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

Lonelybird..in the I Can Relate forum there is a Betrayed Men's thread....check it out...I think you will find them extremely helpful.

No...what you asked for was exactly what you should have had all along. It is absolutely necessary to have full transparency if you are going to rebuild you marriage.

When was your dday? How did you find out?

[This message edited by confused615 at 1:17 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

As a ww no way would not giving access to my phone, computer etc fly in my house. And the only way I would carry extra undies if I expected to need to change due to being outside, gym etc and then I would have a whole change of clothes and shower stuff or baby wipes, deo etc... I hope everyone is wrong, but it sounds suspect to me.

D-Day was 11-Jan-2013. We started R on 16-Feb-2013. Things went shady and pear shaped again around 05-Aug-2013.

You are right on the money Lonelybird. Privacy is only that important to someone when they are trying to hide something. Your Instincts are spot on. I am not going to repeat everything that others have posted. Please take care of yourself and don't let her gaslight you. Your gut is screaming something isn't right. Listen to it.

[This message edited by Blameitontherain at 1:23 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

People with nothing to hide hide nothing.

Every single thing i read in all of your posts throws up huge red flags for me.

She wont give up the phone.

Carrying around sexy lacy spare panties? WTF? (Ummm, i am a woman, and i have NEVER done that. like, ever.)

Secrecy and a change in behavior in the past couple weeks?

You hand over your phone and she acts shocked??

With hugs and support, i am sorry, but she is lying about something. This is NOT the way an open, honest and transparent spouse behaves.

Privacy only matters that badly when you want to hide something, right?

^^^^ yup. And (JMO) once the WS violates that core and fundamental essence of trust and respect in your marriage...they forgo any and all expectations to privacy. like forever.

hugs to you

I wonder if I knuckled under too soon in R... not sure where to go from here but I am going back to IC, meeting with my pastor and starting MC either solo or as a couple depending. My pastor is also connecting me with a group of men to help keep me accountable and also help me to have a safety net.