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Newest Member: TLGRandall (44305)

New Beginnings Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Trouble in paradise. Help talk me thru this....
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He should be here with me then.

If that be true, then he isn't that fella.

Here's the deal: Divide the amount he owes by the average amount he is paying Grandma off, each month. That is how many months before he calls all of the shots in his own life. Also, keep in mind that who he morphs into when he is independent may not be who he is now.

It seems that the consequences of his bad decisions have him behind the average timeline of a 30 year old. Do you have that kind of time?


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 347 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
cayc
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Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It seems that the consequences of his bad decisions have him behind the average timeline of a 30 year old.

No offense but I don't think service counts as a "bad decision" nor does where he's at at 30 given the service and it's impact. Sometimes military service makes it hard to re-integrate into civilian life because you go from having super-specific training and being in-charge of a lot of people, money, lives but those skills don't translate well to the civilian world. Redefining yourself at 30 is fucking hard. And it sounds like that's playing a role both in where he currently is and compounding the effects of any choices he has made.

As for what to do now, I have no advice, just lots of hugs because I know how frustrating it can be to have to wait patiently for anything.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3003 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cayc, I agree with you.

Regardless of the reason for his being behind the average 30 yr old's timeline doesn't change the time that Naive said she couldn't wait for. That was my point.

I'm grateful for his service.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 347 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
ExposedNiblet
♀ Member
Member # 30803
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't feel Im really qualified to give much advice in the NB boards because I am not dating nor do I want to be.

That being said, this hit me hard:

He is somewhat afraid of her he admits, but doesn't really know why, not physically but she is the matriarch of the family.

I don't think the overnight situation is the big thing here. The fact that he's unable to stand up to her speaks volumes (a 30 year old with a curfew???), and I think that's what you should be focusing on.

You're dating Granny's Boy.

I married Mama's Boy. He was intimidated by her too, not only when he was living with her, but when he married me. This continued on till our divorce. It likely still continues.

Look, if Granny there decides during your relationship with "her boy" that you are not a good match, can you trust him to stand up for you? If he's afraid to make a stand over a curfew then, in all likelihood, it's not going to happen.

What if she starts getting verbally abusive toward you? What then? Of course you can stand up for yourself, as well you should, but can you live knowing that BF doesn't have your back? Can you respect him?

Your OP had so many red flags in it that I felt like saluting my computer.

I'd pass on this guy. You deserve so much more.

I'm sorry.



Divorced
Me ($39.95 plus S & H)
DS1(17), DS2(15)

Enjoying this chapter in my life.
Learning that being alone does not mean being lonely.
Discovering that where I've been is not as important as where I'm going.


Posts: 355 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Right Here, Canada
tabitha95
♀ Member
Member # 22033
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Granny may not like the 20 year age gap either. She seems to still treat him like a child.


BW (me) - 45
DS 14, DS 11
D-Day#1: Oct 30, 2008
D-Day#2: June 3, 2011 (same MOW) Separation: June 3, 2011
Divorce finalized: Feb 2012 (due to 6 month waiting period).

Posts: 3247 | Registered: Dec 2008
Mousse242
♀ Member
Member # 6330
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Military family piping in here, he should contact your local VFW and American Legion. Most posts have a network or access to a network to help soldiers find jobs once they are in civi mode.

He can also look into reserves/National Guard duty and do the one weekend a month/two weeks a year (and yeah it will make him deployable) to keep with the military and use those networks for a job but he'll also get paid for that one weekend and two weeks.

Look into law enforcement or other municipal positions. Even if he can find a part-time gig it would be better than nothing.

His student loan can cover housing. I haven't used the GI bill but I would guess that there would be some kind of provision to allow for housing on that. Use that to pay off grams faster.

He's also not in a position to be dating right now from the way you have stated with what he has going on. You are in very different places in life that have nothing to do with age but have everything to do with finances and time.

((hugs))


Posts: 5473 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Chicago
mandan66
♂ Member
Member # 40075
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA, I'm going to chime in with the others here. I am in a position to date, have actually gone out with a few, and, as everyone on here has experienced as well, lived through a nightmare of a former relationship/marriage. I made plenty of mistakes in my past marriage, for sure; lots of things to not be proud of. But---I learned a bunch from it all, namely: no way would I consider being in a serious relationship with someone who wasn't 'all in'. Gently, I'm a grown-ass man and I want a grown-up marriage. From what you say, it sounds like thats what you want and need also. Not saying this fella can't be that (sounds like he has some great qualities), but right now, if he's under the thumb of Grandma, that's a problem. Whose back will he have, when push comes to shove? I agree with M242; you guys are in different places in life right now. No shame in that, but that sounds like the reality of your situation.


Me: 47; WW: 48
2 DS: 9, 14
M:18--T:19
DDay: Jan/13
Divorced and Done!--7/13

Posts: 121 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: KS
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had the realization about a year and 1/2 into the relationship that just enjoying time together wasn't going to be enough.
Oh, absolutely! He HAS to pull his weight and again, one reason we aren't ready for living together is because he has to have a job where he is able to help with bills.

But he made good money in the military, and when he did stay here, he was invaluable around here with helping with outside chores, my small business, and he actually painted my DD's bedroom for her while she was gone. He has made a huge effort at getting my kids together for my birthday and to do yardwork together. Earning money is important but it isn't the only thing. And I am just watching to see where he ends up with that part.

It seems that the consequences of his bad decisions have him behind the average timeline of a 30 year old.
But those bad decisions have also shaped him into who he is and is becoming....spurring him into counseling and becoming more compassionate and empathetic towards others. That is the part I fell in love with. (plus, I am still a work in progress myself).

Sometimes military service makes it hard to re-integrate into civilian life
Thank you cayc, yes! There is not much call for sonar techs here in our small town.

Regardless of the reason for his being behind the average 30 yr old's timeline doesn't change the time that Naive said she couldn't wait for. That was my point.
Yeah, and I don't want to wait. But, he does have good reasons and he is wonderful to me. I feel I am being impatient because honestly, after 8 months of dating, it is too soon for him to be moving in and I am working on why the overnight stays are so important to me....


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15110 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Look, if Granny there decides during your relationship with "her boy" that you are not a good match, can you trust him to stand up for you?
He promised he would, but he said it would be nice if we get along well. I've met her once, she doesn't bother me and I have no problem standing up for myself....and I told him I will but I will also respect her as long as she isn't abusive towards me. HIs fear of her is something he is working on in counseling, with me. He is taking me to those sessions so we can work on it together....

Granny may not like the 20 year age gap either. She seems to still treat him like a child.
She doesn't like many of the spouses in the family, but the one she does respect is his father's new wife. She stands up to granny but is also respectful of her. She is the type that will walk all over you if you let her and I think he is still letting her do that some because of childhood issues. Again, something he is working on in counseling. At least he takes it seriously when I bring up a problem or issue....

he should contact your local VFW and American Legion.
Thank you, I will suggest that to him.

You are in very different places in life that have nothing to do with age but have everything to do with finances and time.
Yes, I agree.

Gently, I'm a grown-ass man and I want a grown-up marriage. From what you say, it sounds like thats what you want and need also.
Yes, that is what I want this time.
but right now, if he's under the thumb of Grandma, that's a problem. Whose back will he have, when push comes to shove?
Yeah, we have argued about this stuff and it is really the only arguing we have done in the entire 8 months. I'm not ready to bail just yet, he is working so hard to make me happy and deal with all of this, but I know I won't put up with this sitch forever. I don't know what my timeline is, but I will know when it is enough.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15110 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Eranda
♀ Member
Member # 6010
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This guy sounds like way too much of a project considering what he brings to the party, which isn't much.

You are setting yourself up for years of "helping" someone deal with all their problems. I can tell you from experience it's NOT a good situation.

But... I sense that you are not ready to hear any of the advice here. I believe you get a an emotional payoff from being "needed" by this guy. But remember- people who "need" you are NEEDY. That is not a good basis for a relationship.

Mark my words- eventually you will get tired of constantly having to help him with his shit.


My Blog: http://allofthewaystohell.com/

Posts: 4222 | Registered: Dec 2004 | From: eastern PA
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I sense that you are not ready to hear any of the advice here. I believe you get a an emotional payoff from being "needed" by this guy.
I am listening...I'm just not ready to dump him just yet. I need to let this stuff sink in and see what happens over time here...this is not a decision I am making lightly because he also takes good care of me. I can be a little needy from time to time, and he has always been there for me also. He spent the night in the hospital with me when I had severe stomach pains and he actually listens to me when I have an issue. That is new for me, and maybe he isn't perfect but I know it is a step in the right direction.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15110 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Spirit13
♀ Member
Member # 31758
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA,

It's a process and I think there is a part of you that know it. You just aren't ready yet. The thing is that we all get sucked into trying to solve the problem for him. You, me (in giving helpful posts) .... all of us. And this is very co-dependent and is what creates the problem to begin with. You have to step back and make it HIS problem to solve. You are not happy. You are his girlfriend. You want HIM to solve the issue of not being able to sleep over at your place, for example. It isn't for YOU to suggest and problem solve and talk to Grandma, etc. etc.

HE has to recognize that YOU are not satisfied with this and it is HIS problem to step up and fix if he values your relationship. If he doesn't do this then you know what kind of a man you have.

That's my humble opinion anyway.

(I get sucked into the very same thing - don't get me wrong. It's super easy to want to be a pleaser, helper and solver to everyone.)


Men were deceivers ever; one foot in sea and one on shore, to one thing constant never.

Posts: 620 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Midwest
ninebark
♀ Member
Member # 24534
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get you NaiveAgain

Most people look at my BF and probably say "run for the hills!" lol

He is 34, lives at home, works at Tim Horton's. On paper he looks terrible.
One of his best friends cautioned me against dating him because of what others are saying about your boyfriend.

However I gave him a chance but I had very definite conditons and he has lived up to all of them.

-he pays for gas and food when he stays over, although he has his own car, if I dam doing all the driving he pays.
-He helps with chores around the house
-He goes back to school and gets a career or trade.

Well in that time he has gone back to school, got top in his class last year. One year to go!
He helps around the house, gives me money, babysits and pets sits when I need it. HE has been a very supportive and helpful guy. Next year he will start his apprenticeship and no he will not be moving in until he can finacially assist.


But I would have a real problem with the curfew thing. So I think the person you need to speak to is him. Let him know where you stand on this and that it is a potential deal breaker that has to be addressed.

[This message edited by ninebark at 9:41 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]


BS (me) 40
WH - 48
Married 12 years
DS - 12
D-day 06/21/09
Separated....hopefully divorcing soon.

Posts: 630 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Canada
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spirit....thank you. You are absolutely correct. I am getting better at letting the guy figure things out. I have done this in the past with him and he has stepped up and fixed the problems.

This one is a larger one and he says he tosses and turns all night trying to figure out how to fix this. He knows I am not happy. He said he would work something out, but yesterday he said he would like us to do this one together because he just can't figure out how to fix this.

I am glad he is taking it seriously. I am glad he is trying to figure it out. But you are right, he has to step up and figure this one out. And I have to let him. We will see what the outcome is. Again, I am going to give him some time to figure things out, but if he settles in and stops working on it or decides he is okay with the status quo...I think at that point I will have to move on.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15110 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ninebark, thank you also. He does look awful on paper but when I set a condition or boundary, every single time he has come thru on it. He wants this to work and he is vested in our relationship. And he is willing to learn what makes me happy and he works to do so. For example, he learned I like flowers so he has figured out a way to afford those from time to time, even on his poor student budget. He learned my favorite place to eat and has taken me there twice now. I had a problem with him hanging with a certain female that he was "just friends" with but had had some romantic interest in the past. He totally dumped her and got rid of her phone number. He has taken every step so far to help me feel secure and happy in our relationship.

He knows that spending time together is my love language so he will go without sleep and get up extra early to come and spend a few hours with me before school.

This grandma thing is a new one and apparently an old FOO issue for him, so this is a bigger hurdle than some of those in the past. I know I have to just have to sit back and see how he handles it which is difficult for me because at my core I am a problem solver and very proactive.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15110 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Spirit13
♀ Member
Member # 31758
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA,

Just do the best you can and try to catch yourself when you try to step in and fix things. Don't be the girlfriend and the mom. He HAS a mom, it's his Grandma apparently.

Hey, I went through a similar deal all summer when my SO of 2+ years decided to move. He and I have talked about getting married in a couple years and so when he looked at areas that didn't work for my job and my daughter's school... it was a real problem. I found myself consumed with fixing "our" problem and constantly talking about it, offering compromises, researching private schools, looking at other jobs, etc. Then I noticed that I was pretty much the only one working on "OUR" problem. He didn't seem too worried about the fact that I might not be able to move to be with him in 2 years. What a wake up call. Why the fuck was I doing all the work?

Sometimes is just takes a while for the reality of a person to set in.

Take care, be aware!


Men were deceivers ever; one foot in sea and one on shore, to one thing constant never.

Posts: 620 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Midwest
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My guy does worry and stress over this situation, and it is upsetting him physically that I am upset. He just can't seem to figure out an answer to this problem. I think he could get a small room close to me and his school so we would be closer and be able to see each other more regularly, but he doesn't want to waste his small amount of monthly income on that when he really wants to save up for a house for us in the future. Problem is every time he makes a deposit into the "house for the future" can, he has to take some of it back for gas or stuff. He really needs a job.....


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15110 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
ajsmom
♀ Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Throwing in another perspective.

I've thought a lot about this thread over the past few days and hesitated to respond to it (or any about your sitch) because I am your age with a son his age. Personally, I can’t imagine dating someone with that big a gap in ages, especially since I know so very well the 30 year old male mind through my kid. Vice versa, I can’t see my son dating someone my age, nor would I honestly be happy if he did. That, along with being influential in my son’s decision making – ONLY when he wants me to be – all added up to me walking away without commenting.

You’ve said time and time again here and in other posts what he does for YOU, how he fulfills your needs, helps with chores, helps with your business, helps with your DD, etc., yet, unless I missed it, I struggle to see what’s in it for him other than the obvious. Perhaps – just perhaps – this time away and with others that may see this relationship as rather one sided and incredibly needy (on both parts, but certainly more on yours) has started to change his way of thinking about the future. He very well might be in a “tell her what she wants to hear right now” mode – i.e., him taking on the task of “fixing” things – so as to, I dunno – find a softer way out when your frustration with the whole mess peaks?

I have a couple of friends who are in somewhat similar unbalanced relationships, and the things and frustration they put up with are somewhat mind boggling.

Just my $0.02.

AJ’s MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
lieshurt
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Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe you get a an emotional payoff from being "needed" by this guy.

You are setting yourself up for years of "helping" someone deal with all their problems.

I struggle to see what’s in it for him other than the obvious.

All I see is another dysfunctional situation here....definitely a mother/son unhealthy dynamic. He likes being told by you what he needs to do to be a grownup and you get a bit of satisfaction out of being in "control" and dictating what must occur for this to be a successful "relationship".

I agree with ajsmom. I couldn't imagine dating somebody with that much of an age difference. In your case, you want him to be in the same place you are in life so you can be happy together. Well, that isn't the case and that isn't going to happen. You have lived 20 more years of life than he has. He can't catch up with you to be in the same place or mindset. You will always surpass him.


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13647 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
NaiveAgain
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Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I struggle to see what’s in it for him other than the obvious
Since I was asking for help on my problems with this issue, I didn't feel the need to describe what he says he gets from me. When he fell for me, he didn't know we had such a huge age gap. He thought I was 5 years older than him (which is what most people guess...I have decent genetics and more energy than most 20 year olds.) I never took him seriously so by the time I did take him seriously and tell him, he didn't care at that point. He wasn't particularly looking for an "older" woman. I wasn't wanting a young guy to tell what to do and I waited a year to actually start dating him.

I ended up falling for him because in most ways he is more mature than any of the other guys I've dated (and most of them were older than me).

He fell for me, in his words, (besides the obvious) because of my heart first and foremost, because I am caring, loving, open and honest with him. He loves my personality and the way I conduct myself. Because I inspire him to be a better person (and don't take that wrong...not as a mother figure, but just as a better person because of what I do in my community). One of the most important things to him is the way we communicate with each other. Open, honest and vulnerable. He values that highly. He also values the way we handle disagreements. Like adults. No yelling, screaming, name-calling. No going for the weak spots. We just take our time and think things thru and then talk them over. He has dated much younger girls, his age girls, and a few years older. I am obviously the oldest he has dated, but I am the one that clicks with him.

We have the same goals in life. We are both politically interested. We enjoy a lot of the same hobbies and friends.

His family has gotten to know me and according to him, they adore me. They have told him that he better not mess this up, and his mom and sister have told me they love me.

We take care of each other when we are ill. I have gone to the hospital with him also when he has had problems. I go to his doctor visits with him. When his car was broken, we carpooled with my car for 2 months.

We help each other out. When one of us is having issues, the other one is patient and understanding. He can be just as nurturing and caring as me, that is mutual.

We have discussed the age gap in depth and over time. We know the negatives and we also know some people may not accept it. But since we are both overall happy and our families and friends are ecstatic, we aren't horribly concerned if others accept it or not.

I am dealing with an issue here that could be in any age group. I don't feel this is an age issue but more of a FOO issue. I quit letting my parents tell me what to do when I turned 16. My last SO was 48 and still letting his mommy run the show.

I do appreciate your comments and thoughts, but I feel you are making generalizations about our ages (and I'm sure your own experience with your son and friends) But not all 30 year olds are immature and not all 50 year olds have experience and wisdom (ha ha, that sounds bad....I hope I have some wisdom but I do wonder sometimes!)

He very well might be in a “tell her what she wants to hear right now” mode
No. We are brutally honest about our feelings, even when they aren't positive. We talk frequently about how we feel about each other, what is happening in our lives and relationship that impacts those feelings, and what we want in the future. Actually, a few days ago, that was when he came up with the idea of wanting to save for a down payment for a house for us. What he is doing now, he feels, will clear our future. I just miss him being around a lot, and that is normal. I am trying to talk it out here and get other perspectives.

I realized this afternoon, that one reason I am handling this so badly is because I have had so much loss with family. I've been thru several breakups where I felt my family was breaking apart. After he had stayed with me for a while, I did feel like he was family. When he left, it triggered that loss again. I was in mourning, and I just realized that a bit ago.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15110 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Topic Posts: 61
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