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User Topic: Why is it hypocrisy for a WS to teach children not to cheat?
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've seen many posts of BS's quite upset their spouse has the balls to talk to their kids or get upset at their kids about lying, cheating (even on tests) where the WS is not in current behavior. Some of these have turned into pages. This along with are WS's good parents.

Good news, though. People's opinions are just that. Those who do work on themselves see clearly who they are, where they've been and where they're going. While you can love someone you also need to let their view of you be just that. Theirs. Continue to parent the way "you" feel is right. That's "your" job. No one can take it from you.

Sad, I know you know it's not just non-remorseful waywards that get hit. We get lumped quite often. Luckily I believe only half I hear and next to nothing I read. Hell, more than just a few times, especially when reading consistent thought processes on display I think to myself, wonder when that poster's "WS" will have their d day.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I have struggled, especially early after DDay, with feeling like a hypocrite when it comes to dealing with issues with my girls. That being said, I actually think that with everything HT and I been through and the work that we both have done, we are better parents for it.

Most people that read my posts know that I usually will apply my own personal experience to attempt to get my point across. It's similar with the kids. I try to apply the knowledge I have and present it in a way that we can somewhat relate to each other. My kids understand that I am a flawed human being. They know that I have made poor decisions in my life. They also know that those decisions have hurt other people. Whenever I have a sit down with either one of them I explain that my hopes are that they can learn these valuable life lessons early rather than wait until their 30's or 40's like I have. My eldest daughter had even commented that is spooky that I can get inside her head the way I do.

I also truly believe that all the work that HT and I have done, all the talks we have had, all the openness we now share, he has become much more understanding of our girl's behavior. Now that doesn't mean that it doesn't drive either one of us bat shit crazy from time to time, but I feel he can see where it is coming from. He has often times said (in humor...sort of ) I wonder where she gets that from?

If it was considered hypocrisy to teach the lessons you have learned from poor decisions in your life, organizations such as AA or NA would not exist. Quite frankly, this site would look very different. I know when someone gives me advice I want to know that they have some sort of understanding of my situation. That they aren't just pulling shit from a hat at random. I want to know that they have some sort experience to offer to the table. So I take parenting with the same approach. I have experience and knowledge on the subject to offer. On important matters I want them to know why I say what I do.

So we can either claim hypocrisy and sit idly watching the cycle continue with our children, or we can be proactive and hope that something we say or show our children sticks with them and they have a better chance of becoming better human beings for it.


Me: WS 41
Him: BH 42 (holdingtogether)
M: 17 years, together 21
2 Daughters: 12 and 9
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
refuz2bavictim
♀ Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It would be difficult if not impossible for me to respect the active drug user who is telling me "don't do drugs". I would likely view them more as a cautionary tale, rather than a reliable resource.

I also think the tendency for a BS to hammer a FORMER WS on hypocrisy is probably born more out of anger than of reasoning. It's a very emotional response.

I can only speak for myself here, but when my FWS was having these discussions with our kids, I felt strongly that it he be the one to do it. I am not unique or special, so I doubt that I am alone in this.

I feel pretty good about the fact that my FWS is modeling a path to fixing what may be broken. He is showing our children that you may make bad decisions, though you strive to do your best, you might not. It's not at all the same as permission to do wrong and then fix it and all is happily ever after. It's the idea that you can find redemption and hope when all feels lost. He is showing them you must first own it and that it will be hard....for a very long time it will be painful. But with consistency, introspection, patience and a little self love, one can turn the ship around and make better decisions today, that will lead to better decisions in the future. I'm modeling the other side of the coin. I can't be sure exactly how they will process it all, I can only hope that they will dump out the stuff that's not helpful and keep the lessons that will be of benefit. But they probably have their own poor choices to make somewhere along the way.

A FWS is very well equipped to show/tell why lying, cheating leads to some negative consequences. I would think that once a person enters the category of "former" anything they have a valuable insight on a particular topic that someone without that experience lacks.

I still think that "showing" the path will make the greatest impact. I suppose that isn't the issue here, but I mention it, as I think most of FWS's have had to find a way to make their words match their actions.

We advise BS's here to watch actions, because we have learned that words are often misleading. I see this as pertinent because kids have an uncanny ability to call us out on the "inconsistencies" of what we say and what we do. If we are to teach them anything at all....we need to make sure that our own words and deeds "match". It is only hypocrisy when a parent is acting virtuous, but behaving in the opposite manner.... and most children, while they may not be able to put a name to it, are able to detect it.

[This message edited by refuz2bavictim at 12:54 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2360 | Registered: Jan 2010
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't plan on telling my kids about my A.

I will just do what I've always done - teach them what I think is right. Take what works, leave the rest.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Syzy
♀ Member
Member # 15190
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are all hypocrites if we use that term to mean we behave in ways contrary to the ideals we espouse. Technically thatís not what hypocrisy means. Rather it refers to claiming to believe something different than what one believes.

However that said I think it is especially relevant to teach someone not to go down a path one has gone down. My ex's daughter stole from a store when caught she was crushed by her own behavior and the consequences. My ex having been a liar, a cheat and a thief consoled her and talked about her own journey down that path and why it is one not to take. I think there can be redemption in that. A way to show someone that all is not lost but there are consequences that aren't worth it.

[This message edited by Syzy at 4:35 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


BS
Dday Aug 17, 2006
R - what's that.
Me - Moved on long ago.
It takes two to make it work, but only one to fuck it up.

Posts: 945 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: So Cal
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A way to show someone that all is not lost but there are consequences that aren't worth it.

Wow, syzy! This is beautiful!!!


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't plan on telling my kids about my A.

I hope you didn't misinterpret my post. My kids don't know about my A. When I talk to them about issues it stays on their level. My sharing about decisions I've made remains vague, however the lessons learned are clear. I just try to come at it from the angle of empathy and understanding. I don't want to be a super hero to them. I want to be someone that they feel they can come to with a problem and I will listen to them. I want to be someone that they trust can help them with that problem because I too have had struggles and I can understand where they may be coming from, but in the same token let them know what my expectations are.

I see no benefit in telling my girls about my A. But I do see benefit in letting them know that Mom (or Dad) are real human beings that make mistakes and actually live through it. That when we make decisions there can be consequences or rewards. That it is on only ourselves and not others when we choose.

My girls fight a lot. They want me to pick sides. I refuse to do it. My question to them is always "what is your part?" They hate it but I think they are starting to get my point. I want them to be responsible for their own actions. No blame shifting allowed! Doesn't always work, but it is a work in progress.


Me: WS 41
Him: BH 42 (holdingtogether)
M: 17 years, together 21
2 Daughters: 12 and 9
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 494 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
joeboo
♂ Member
Member # 31089
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why is it hypocrisy for a WS to teach children not to cheat?
By definition, hypocrisy is the false claim of having admirable principles. Technically, it is not hypocrisy for someone guilty of an offense to warn others of it's lack of virtue. They may not necessarily be best suited to tell them how not to cheat, but by experience are very well suited to tell them what it is like to be a cheater if they would choose to be honest about it.

The hypocrisy would only lie in a claim of not being guilty of the same. Not really semantics, depending on how the lesson is taught.


Posts: 1208 | Registered: Feb 2011
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've seen many posts of BS's quite upset their spouse has the balls to talk to their kids or get upset at their kids about lying, cheating (even on tests) where the WS is not in current behavior. Some of these have turned into pages.

PAGES. Right, cuz more is better.


"Sheila put the knife down ... "

Posts: 240 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: USA
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No it is not!
Whoever is trying to shove this down your throat just needs to stop trying to hurt you

I think the one person who has made the ultimate mistake is going to be more stand fast to the dont lie dont cheat.

Hugs doll....


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a parent I'm certainly not perfect - I find myself telling DD to do things that I myself struggle with (see: clean your room)

I think when it comes to kids, if we believe what we are teaching in our hearts they will feel it.


For last year's words belong to last year's language
And next year's words await another voice.
And to make an end is to make a beginning. - T.S. Eliot

Posts: 14750 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Topic Posts: 31
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