Hope all is good brother
I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.
[This message edited by Stillkicking at 1:39 AM, September 22nd (Sunday)]
I'm holding up. Feel okay one day then hopelessly sad the next. Keep waking up in the middle of the night. But I'm exercising, and trying to eat more healthy. I lost about 15 lbs in the last month though, although thats not necessarily a bad thing since I had a little bit of a spare tire that almost gone now.
I still prefer to work things out with my wife. But I think I'm no longer afraid to divorce her either. Still doing the 180. But I might be over doing it (is it okay to be being distant, cold?)
(is it okay to be being distant, cold?)
IMO, yes it is. Especially if your WW is not doing all she can to help you heal.
If she is not reaching out, trying to make amends then yes, remain distant and cold.
This is her mess to clean up. This is her wrong to right.
If she truly wants to R then she would be everything you need in order to see that and to start to let you guard down.
If she is not, then well keep up the 180.
Sorry you are here. Hope better days are on the horizon. You deserve more.
I am sorry you've joined our club. I can only share what worked for me and that was an ultimatum on d-day. In fact during the initial confrontation I told her I can't believe it is over after close to 25 years. I love her but since I only believe in M with two people, we need to unwind things quickly. Within a week I wanted to meet together to list our assets, meet with a lawyer to divide them and figure out what to tell the kids, friends and family.
She came out of the fog quickly and cried out in anguish. I then told her my conditions for staying including NC and if I caught her lieing to me one more time I was gone.
I meant it. And she knew it..Either she was in or out and I wasn't going to sit idle in a 180 for months while she continued to disrespect me. I wasn't a doormat to walked on and my recommendation is that you shouldn't be either.
[This message edited by tooanalytical at 6:08 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]
You’ve gotten some excellent advice to-date but I want to add my three dollars’ worth...
Infidelity won’t simply go away and it will never cure itself. Nor is it ever possible for one person in a marriage to fix it. Yes – for a period of time one person can do all he/she can to get the other on board but at the end of the day… It’s both or nothing.
I think one of the reasons we often react “wrong” to these scenarios is because we have never envisioned being in them. [I put wrong in parentheses because I really don’t know if there is a right or wrong. What I do know from reading thousands of similar cases is that there are actions that work and actions that don’t…]
Now imagine that you aren’t dealing with infidelity. Instead imagine you wake up one night because of a high piercing sound. So you think that it might be the smoke detectors. You might HOPE it’s the smoke detectors in the next house but you would be a world-class fool to roll over and try to sleep. At least check. So you open your eyes and smell smoke…
At this point would you ever contemplate closing your eyes and simply wishing this wasn’t a fire in your house?
Would you weight the pro’s and cons of phoning the fire-brigade? After all their heavy boots might ruin the floor and the water they use wreck the walls…
If you are semi-normal you would be jumping out of bed, waking the family, making sure the kids are safe and hustling ASAP out the door or window or whatever. Making sure your wife is safe. Making sure that someone is dialing 911. Evaluating whether everyone is out, evaluating if you can kill the flame, saving valuables…
Even if it was a small fire in the side-room… You wouldn’t get it under control and then go get a cup of tea knowing there MIGHT be an ember. You would stomp it out, douse it with water, tear up the floorboards… You would make sure your house was SAFE.
Get it? See what I’m trying to say? The house – it’s your family and marriage. The fire – it’s your wife’s infidelity. It requires constant work until you have saved what you can and possibly killed the infidelity/fire.
Sometimes houses can’t be saved. Sometimes someone is left in the fire. At that point you can’t really stop and wish it hadn’t happened. It did. It’s reality. So you move on and find a new house to build.
Most of the times the house is damaged but can be fixed. But once again – it’s no use dialing 911 and then directly a contractor to start fixing the damaged stuff. Your priorities should be save those that can get out, save valuables, try to save the house and then evaluate whether to fix or find something new.
Right now your wife is still in infidelity mentality. She’s still contacting the OM, she’s still working with him, she’s still not committed to the marriage… It’s a blazing fire.
OK – I have this theory that (especially) WW enter a period of not having sex (active infidelity) when the affair is known but not ending the affair per se (inactive infidelity). It’s a theory often used when dealing with alcoholics; an alcoholic can stop drinking without dealing with his alcoholism but the failure rate is probably around 99%. Stop drinking and deal with the alcoholism… and the success rates increase.
So I think your WW might not be in active infidelity. The OM is probably keeping to himself worried shitless that his wife will get the news. Don’t worry – once she does OM will drop WW like the plague and focus on his marriage. Well – that’s what happens in 19 out of 20 cases.
IMHO reality is the best cure for infidelity. Your WW needs a dose of reality.
[Older posters bear with me – I have probably written the following text 1000 times here…]
I think it’s a very powerful moment when a BH realizes that the worst outcome of what he is dealing with is NOT losing his wife. The worst outcome has to be that she continues in the affair. That she doesn’t commit to the marriage. That three years from now you will still be wondering where she is, why she is distant and why that receipt from Victoria’s Secrets was in the trash.
I think that powerful moment is best utilized in telling your wife something like:
“Wife. I love you and I think we and our children deserve that we try to work our way through the infidelity. I realize it will require immense work from both of us and I am willing to commit to that. However I also know that losing you is NOT the worst thing that can happen to me. In fact I lost you the moment you decided to have an affair. The ABSOLUTE WORST outcome of this situation would be to continue living in infidelity.
Either you are in the marriage or you are not. There is no in-between.
While you are seeing OM and having an affair I have already lost you. I am therefore assuming the marriage is over and will act with the intent of going through the process of terminating it. There’s no rush. We can do this like civilized people. It won’t happen overnight and as I have stated I am willing to commit to the marriage. But I can’t save it alone and until you clearly and vocally state that you are willing to work towards reconciliation then the only honest and healthy thing I can do is move on”
And then you basically just do that.
You talk to an attorney. You get your latest tax records. You go over your debts and assets. You start listing major possessions in the house.
You do NOT talk to WW about marriage issues. It’s like trying to negotiate with the flames.
You do not talk to WW about the divorce process. Simply say “This is not what I want but it’s my only option. I am afraid that I am too emotionally attached to the marriage so at the RIGHT time we will have an attorney or mediator go over these issues with us”.
You do not engage in arguments.
You simply live your life, doing the 180 and act as determined and content as you can. Sort of like someone that simply knows that the hard path he is walking is the only one out.
Coda – My suggestion is NOT based at getting you to divorce. In fact I think my advice is absolutely the best to SAVE your marriage. But I also think that it will be saved because your WW wakes up and sees that the affair is fantasy while you are reality.
Yesterday we met for MC mainly to discuss the rules for the one week separation my WW is planning from 10/2-10/9. Rules we agreed upon, 1) Tell kids she will be away on Business Trip, 2) She can communicate with kids via telephone, 3) No contact between her and I, 4) At the end of the week, we have another MC session, and she has to have made somekind of decision. I wanted one more rule, NC with AP, but she would not agree. In fact she admittted wanting to see the AP in person to discuss things. To me it sounds like she wants to see how things are with him, then decide about our marriage. So I guess the marriage is just the backup choice. Anyway, I will take the week to think about what I want too. And if I really want to continue the marriage. I am starting to feel a bit fed up with her attitude about this.
[This message edited by coda87 at 8:35 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]
Its the blatant disrespect that you will remember, especially if the marriage survives. She doesn't try to hide the fact that she will be with him during that week; her contempt for you is obvious; can you live with this contempt in the years to come?
It will consume your self-esteem and probably lead to further cheating. You should divorce her not because of her adultery, but because of the lack of respect. That is something you should not tolerate.
Maybe you are fine with that and that is totally OK if it fits you. You might be OK with allowing her this week in the hope that it clarifies her thoughts. I wouldn’t be fine with this but that is only ME. So if you are fine with this situation… good for you.
If however the thought that she’s going to see OM bothers you… Then refuse it.
Look back at where I talk about alcoholism… Right now your wife is an alcoholic that has realized that she might have a drinking problem. So when her friends go to a bar she decides to follow them but not drink. And she will be totally believing herself when she decides this. Then maybe just buy one glass of Chablis… just to hold it so she isn’t so self-conscious being empty handed. Then just one teeny weeny sip… Then another… Then another glass… Then a shot… Then some more…
That “problem” is she realizes her marriage is in danger because of her affair/drinking. The bar is moving out for a week. The Chablis is meeting OM “just to talk” to clear things… You can bet your bottom dollar the “clearing” will include sex.
I encourage you to have the talk I mentioned. Tell her that she is totally free to go for the week. That you won’t impede her ability to talk to children. That you won’t contact her. But also that YOU will be using the week to evaluate how much you can and should take. That YOU are moving out of infidelity and that each and every chip she makes in the marriage really diminishes your will and ability to work things out. You aren’t willing to commit to being her backup plan and that you fear that you will simply feel disgusted at her if she comes back after a week of romping with another man. That maybe, just maybe it won’t be HER call after a week whether the marriage has a chance.
And Coda... Tell the OMW. NOW.
I made attempts to contact the OMW, via Facebook and a couple days ago sent letters. So far I have heard nothing back from her or from my WW (I'm assuming the AP would tell her if his wife got my letter). I'm even thinking hiring a PI to track her down and hand deliver a letter to her.
If you don't stand up for yourself and your principles then even if she does come back to you she won't respect you. And you won't respect you.
There is YOUR moment of self respect. You may feel weak from shock and grief, but you must stand up for your self respect. No matter what happens, when you have self respect it sets you up for a good next chapter in your life.
[This message edited by InnerLight at 11:57 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]
I hate to hear that you have also been a victim of someone's selfishness. I think you need to make a whole hearted effort to contact the OM's wife. I would go over there personally to make yourself known. Only do this if you can physically control yourself if the other man is present. I made a poor judgement call when I did this and it ended up costing me in the long run.
Demand that your wife not see the om during your one week separation. My situation is quite different since my wife has been completely remorseful since I found out. With your wife still wanting to see the other man you need to take action and bust that bubble. The OM will be looking for a hole to crawl in. Regardless of whether you stay with her or not it will bring you satisfaction knowing that you have killed her fairy tale. that is exactly what it is right now and she is in the fog. Take action my friend.
You're the one that has to make the decision for yourself and your kids. Not committing to NC and not giving you access to her email, phone, or FB speaks volumes on where she is at. I tried to look at my situation as a stranger or friend would look at it and what kind of advice I would give a friend in my situation. I would have told my friend that if she didn't move out, I would.....and with the kids. I didn't take my own advice. Thankfully and we're still working on it.
The only thing new that I can offer that I haven't read yet is that if you're not comfortable with your MC, try another. Not every MC is for everyone or for every couple. Also strongly consider IC for yourself. You're on a roller coaster that has just begun. Sorry!
I so wished I had another spouse to tell, the other person was divorced, from his own prior infidelities.
Cheating before Dday and continuing it right in-front of the BS is two different animal. The disrespect, humiliation of the second will be too much for any one with self respect to tolerate.
Then one more question, she took her EA to PA after you confronted her, How much is her respect for you, your hurt and pain?
Why you want to be with such a person?
Get angry. Stop allowing her to walk all over you. She wants a one week "separation" so.... she can fuck some other guy? "Uh, guess what, honey? You are married."
No chance. "Here you go, sweetie. You take your one week fuck-fest and you will find everything you own on the curb. And guess what else. I'm filing for immediate divorce and I'm going for full custody of our children."
"Now... still want to take a vacation?"
You need to put your foot down and begin making the rules - not following them.
Look your wife in the eye and lay them out. Start with the absolute, #1 essential rule:
No contact. Ever. Again. Period.
"You don't like it? We're done."
She will continue to piss on you because she knows you're currently a fall back position. Don't give her that.
Let her know, in no uncertain terms, that if she takes that leap she doesn't get to come back. And it will cost her A LOT.
An earlier poster is correct - a WS who sleeps with another guy pre-Dday is one thing... but one who sleeps with him AFTER Dday.... well, she's just a fucking piece of work.
Be strong. I'm hoping for you.