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Reconciliation     Print Topic    
User Topic: Im as bad as him!!!
beebee
♀ New Member
Member # 40632
What?  Posted: 6:53 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting discussion.

StillGoing, just because I mentioned how a slap on the face by a woman was not considered abuse in days gone by doesn't mean I agree with all of the thinking of those days, such as condoning that old "boys will be boys" view of cheating on your wife. As I'm a betrayed spouse, you didn't really think I'd be OK with that line of thinking, did you? I think it's OK to pick and choose what works from the past - some of it is worth discarding, but some old ways aren't so bad.

wifehad5, I respectfully disagree with you. I don't think women slapping men who have groped them or who have just been revealed to be cheaters are "wrong." I wouldn't want to encourage it, but I really don't think it's out of line. Pushing and punching and more - OK, I agree with you there, but I think Heartbroken2013 was seeking support here, so I don't think it helps to post strong statements about moral absolutes that might make her healing process even harder.

Herkemeyer, I think it's terrible that some women hit men, hurt themselves in the process, then call the police and file false charges. I'm glad the thought of hitting your wife never entered your mind because men (who are generally stronger) should never hit women. But the problem of false charges is not what Heartbroken2013 needs help with here either.

Like I said, I guess I'm old fashioned. I still think there's nothing wrong with a woman slapping her husband when he's been caught cheating on his wife. I didn't do it, but I sure thought about it! And I hope that helps Heartbroken2013 a little bit, and hope she doesn't feel quite so bad about herself.


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

POSTING AS A MEMBER

I still think there's nothing wrong with a woman slapping her husband when he's been caught cheating on his wife.

Wow. Nothing wrong? NOTHING wrong??

So.... doing something to hurt someone else is OK if it's "justified." Well, then we should give all the WS's whose BS's were "really really" mean to them a pass since lashing out at "injustice" is acceptable.

So I don't think it helps to post strong statements about moral absolutes that might make her healing process even harder.

I completely disagree. It is never ever ok to strike someone. There is a VERY clear difference between shoving or hitting someone who is assaulting you, or hitting someone out of anger. I can't believe this is even up for conversation.

I've been on this side of the fence. I hit my husband after he told me he cheated. IT WAS WRONG. I don't care why I did it. It doesn't matter how I was feeling... it was WRONG.

I have compassion and sympathy for Heartbroken2013. To get to the point of physically lashing out means that the pain inside of her was blinding and all encompassing.

The thing is, giving people a pass for their missteps isn't helping them. It's hurting them because they're never going to learn and grow from what they did. They can either deplete their moral character by justifying it, or the can grow and learn about themselves in hopes of walking down the healthiest path possible.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 7:05 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17846 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but I think Heartbroken2013 was seeking support here, so I don't think it helps to post strong statements about moral absolutes that might make her healing process even harder.

(Back to posting as a Moderator)

Which is exactly why I flagged the generalizations in this thread in the first place. Generalizations hurt a lot more than they help.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37398 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
beebee
♀ New Member
Member # 40632
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jrazz, I respect your opinion. I just disagree with it.

You think it is never OK to strike someone, and I think under the circumstances I mentioned - being groped or just finding out your husband cheated on you - a woman who slaps a man is reacting in a pretty normal way, and no, I don't see it as "wrong."

I'm sure a lot of people do. But a lot of people don't, and that's WHY we are having this discussion.

This reaction to "bad" male behavior has been going on a LONG time, in a lot of cultures. It's been portrayed in movies for decades. I know, being portrayed in movies doesn't make anything right - but it's a knee-jerk reaction, and has been one method that women have had on the fly to "get through" to men that they've had enough of being treated really badly.

Some might argue that the "hurt" of the slap doesn't even come close to the hurt of the revelation of an affair.

When words fail, when you're outraged, when you think he's disgusting, slap him.

If you're a pacifist, you will not agree, and I can respect that. But not everyone is a pacifist. I think Gandhi was brilliant, and I love so much of what he said and did. But he had no good answer for what to do about Hitler - a pacifist's response would have had horrific consequences.

I don't think it's necessary to suggest that there's only one way to look at the slapping issue, or to suggest that there shouldn't even be a conversation about it. In your worldview, it was wrong but in mine (and many other people's), it wasn't. Can't we just agree to disagree?


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
nowiknow23
♀ Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

POSTING AS A MEMBER

When words fail, when you're outraged, when you think he's disgusting, slap him.
beebee - I'm disgusted by this comment. Really. And it has nothing to do with being a pacifist. Or not.

It has everything to do with being a human who respects HERSELF too much to act in such a way.

Heartbroken - I apologize for contributing to the massive t/j the responses to your post have become.


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25744 | Registered: Aug 2011
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Posting as a member, still.

This reaction to "bad" male behavior has been going on a LONG time

Since we're talking about hitting, this is one of the biggest slaps in the face to all the men in this community that I have heard in a long time.

Heartbroken, I'm sorry I participated in the t/j. You deserve our support and time for what you are going through.

For the record, you are NOT as bad as anybody. You are you, you are human, and there's not one of us here that has not done something for which they need to ask forgiveness. I commend you for opening up and talking to us about what you are going through. I'm really grateful for all the people here who helped me see through my rage and back to the person I want to be. Every day is a new day to do something that you can be proud of. You're going to be ok.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17846 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing, just because I mentioned how a slap on the face by a woman was not considered abuse in days gone by doesn't mean I agree with all of the thinking of those days, such as condoning that old "boys will be boys" view of cheating on your wife. As I'm a betrayed spouse, you didn't really think I'd be OK with that line of thinking, did you? I think it's OK to pick and choose what works from the past - some of it is worth discarding, but some old ways aren't so bad.

I honestly do not know if you were okay with it because you mentioned it as an epochal validation rather than a rational validation. Both of those came from the same source so I was coming in from my typical incoherent way to say that statement is as hypocritical as it gets.

eta:

To add for the OP - no, you are not a bad person. You fucked up, you acknowledge it and don't like that you did it. That's how we grow and better ourselves. Learning from mistakes. Not validating them. I'm sorry for contributing to the t/j also. I'm kind of scatterbrained though and get easily distracted.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 9:00 PM, September 14th (Saturday)]


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7484 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
beebee
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Member # 40632
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nowiknow23, you took my quote out of context. Without the prior sentence - Some might argue that the "hurt" of the slap doesn't even come close to the hurt of the revelation of an affair - you made it seem like I think a woman slapping a man is OK any time, and I was quite clear that only after being groped or after the revelation of an affair I, and many others, would excuse this.

That was hardly fair of you.

And I feel like I'm being attacked for my opinion, which I'm offering in the spirit of showing support for Heartbroken2013.

I'm sorry if you find the place where I draw the line about these things "disgusting." I disagree with you but I will be more respectful of your opinion than you have been of mine.


me: bs
him: ws
affair was short but the hurt goes on
reconciliation: mc is helping

Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: USA
iggyD
♀ Member
Member # 36171
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, September 14th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@beebee
Your opinion seems more influenced by movies and television. I encourage you to volunteer at a women's shelter for a day and speak to victims of domestic abuse. You may revisit your position on this.

In real life, "groping" is a form of assault and as such a "slap" would be self-defense. But domestic violence is a very serious issue and there is no reason ever, except self-defense, for anyone to feel they have a right or an excuse to hit anyone else. Ever. Men or women.

Heartbroken - We all know that betrayal sucks, but we're still responsible for how we respond. I applaud your recognition that physical violence is NOT the way to handle your situation and for seeking help and support.


2012 was a bitch...but I'm hopeful about 2013.

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2012
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh boy....

First things first, I am fully supportive of Heartbroken2013, which I think is in line with SI's pro healing stance.

In bygone days movies portrayed women slapping men as foreplay, and cowboys carried the 47 shot six shooter. Both were bullshit.

Now we want to talk about when it is okay, but if a woman has martial arts training, then maybe not... yeah, well I studied a bit of it, including the associated culture, Sigong's father actually studied with the monks in the temple. We were told that Kung Fu translates to hard work. There is nothing magical about martial arts techniques, anything a martial artist can be taught to do reliably on purpose, an angry amateur can do by accident. Should I list off the ridiculously low amount of force required for various crippling and lethal techniques?

StillGoing, just because I mentioned how a slap on the face by a woman was not considered abuse in days gone by doesn't mean I agree with all of the thinking of those days, such as condoning that old "boys will be boys" view of cheating on your wife. As I'm a betrayed spouse, you didn't really think I'd be OK with that line of thinking, did you? I think it's OK to pick and choose what works from the past - some of it is worth discarding, but some old ways aren't so bad.
Sounds like you are picking and choosing based on personal advantages rather than a moral code. I am sure your WH would select a different set of things from the past to discard or approve. I know if someone offered me a deal like that, there are quite a few "old ways" I would happily hang onto. Not to mention, once someone initiates violence, it becomes a matter of self defence for the violated.

When words fail, when you're outraged, when you think he's disgusting, slap him.
So how often do you think words fail men when women are outrageous or disgusting? Uhm... yeah... still not cool, in fact it is a personal failure on the part of the slapper. For the record, I got slapped once many years ago, and saw an immediate horrified reaction I took for remorse, though it may have been fear at the expression on my face. Ended up having to have surgery on my nose to straighten the cartilage and allow my sinuses to drain properly to cure the constant headaches, because the "just a slap" happend to come at just the right angle. I am almost a foot taller than STBX, used to play hockey where some of my team started calling me "the goon squad" after handily winning a few fights against simultaneous multiple players on the other team, so it's not like I am a frail sensitive poet type.

As a civilized adult, I have to say that unless something is worth killing or dying over, you have no business fighting. Always disturbs me when I see people trying to justify it within the context of a supposedly loving relationship.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 5:03 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To be honest I think many of us slapped our WSs on D-Day. No it's not right, it's not nice, it's not decent behaviour and I am sure all of us are deeply ashamed of it, BUT I think it has to be seen in context. The vast majority of us who slapped our spouses in shock, trauma and anger on D-Day have never, and will never, resort to such behaviour again. It was a horrible, knee-jerk reaction under the most horrific stress imaginable. In my opinion, provided it didn't turn into a full-on, domestic-violence type attack, we can learn from it, apologise sincerely and let it go.

IMO we HAVE to see this in context. Even a court of law would look at it in light of the circumstances under which it happened. I really feel that none of us (beebee included, if I understand her correctly) are advocating domestic violence, none of us are saying it's RIGHT for a woman to strike a man. But I think most of us realise that D-Day is an emotional tsunami, and some of us react, under those specific circumstances, in ways which are not normal for us - we are not proud of it, we are not claiming it is GOOD or acceptable.

IMHO we need to acknowledging that at that time we were deeply hurt, traumatised human beings who may have reacted a little crazily. Provided that craziness did not spawn further craziness and provided it didn't escalate into something more than a slap or a shove that didn't leave marks, I can't see the justification for beating ourselves up forever after about it.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1022 | Registered: Oct 2012
Heartbroken2013
♀ Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Lord!!!

I didn't mean for this to turn into what it has!

When I say 'punched' maybe i should have worded it as 'thumped' .... yes I still struck him, I thumped his chest in anger ... yes I thres his laptop - to me that was the cause for all what had happened. he had an online affair, the laptop was also to blame ... it had to go! I made sure it went!!!

I kicked him, yes, but whn I did this I remember holding back ... it wasn't a full on kick. If most of u read my profile u will see that my husband has grown up with various operations as he was born with bladder exstrophy, I knew what I was doing, where I was kicking him, I made sure it wouldn't be detrimental to his condition.

I have apologised to him, I made it clear at our MC sessions that I was truly ashamed of my actions. my husband believed he deserved what he got and actually said that he didn't realise that he had hurt me so bad, until my out burst (which came nearly 48 hours after DD)

Im sorry that some of you don't agree with what happened, I don't particularly agree with what he did to me either! No, he didn't physically hurt me ... but he emotionally broke me. He may as well have ripped my heart out and stood on it!!

But yet, I know I was wrong!

Thank you to all the people who have supported me and said kind words to help me thru this gulit. thank you too for the pm's of support. I really appreciate all your help, im just sorry some of you have come up in the cross fire of my hurt, I didn't mean for that to happen xx


Me & Hubby = aged 46
Together 16 years
Married 9 years
He had 1 yr EA in chat room then 6mths EA phone/texting with same woman.
Cyber sexed with many OW in chat room for at least 1 year.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
tryin2havefaith
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Member # 37165
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I smacked my H once across the face after I discovered the A. I beat myself up badly for it too. I had grown up in a house where my own father routinely smacked my mother, sibling, and me. I knew exactly what I did not want. Worked very hard to break that cycle. I never laid a hand on my H either before or since.

However, when hit with the trauma or discovery, the blind rage that took over was too powerful. I smacked him across the face. I apologized over and over for that. I still do at times. He told me it was not my fault, rather it was his for traumatizing me to that point. He knows my history and knows that the place I went to to do that is almost as painful as the betrayal. It's almost as if it added another layer of trauma for me to heal through.

There are still days that I feel guilty for doing so. Whenever I do verbalize it to my H, he always is very loving and supportive. He completely understands his own part in it, and is loving and forgiving of me. We are continuing to work on our healing together.


ME- BS
HIM- WS
DDay 1/2011
4 - 6 months of TT'ing
Fully R'd
"Just as ripples spread out when a single pebble is dropped into water, the actions of individuals can have far-reaching effects. " -Dalai Lama

Posts: 265 | Registered: Oct 2012
Missymomma
♀ Member
Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you to all the people who have supported me and said kind words to help me thru this gulit. thank you too for the pm's of support. I really appreciate all your help, im just sorry some of you have come up in the cross fire of my hurt, I didn't mean for that to happen xx

So glad that you got the support you needed! I didn't get the impression you beat him up. More that you were greatly bothered by your outburst.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
Heartbroken2013
♀ Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you x


Me & Hubby = aged 46
Together 16 years
Married 9 years
He had 1 yr EA in chat room then 6mths EA phone/texting with same woman.
Cyber sexed with many OW in chat room for at least 1 year.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
Dreamland
♀ Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartbroken
Do Not feel that you did anything wrong no matter what others have said. I believe you were within your rights to do what you needed at that time.
I think what I have learned from this whole ordeal is not to be too quick to judge others. As we have no idea what daily torments people live with in their relationship. Exception women that chose to be the OW. That I have I can't overlook and will judge them as skanky whores with no morals..
@Beebee I am 100% behind your statements.. And agree with everything you said..
We all are suffering and trying to deal with our M and the fall out of our WS actions. And if that means you and I and many other became physical by punching hitting slapping or throwing furniture at our cheating husbands then that is what happened. And it's OK because it was once in that moment of devastation. It's not alright when it becomes a way to deal with anger or rage which was not your case..
So stay strong and forgive yourself in that awful moment of weakness .. You are remorseful of your actions.. I too apologized for getting angry and hitting my Husband. But he felt like yours he deserved that and more..
So cheers and hope you got some support.


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As we have no idea what daily torments people live with in their relationship.

No, we don't. Yet we don't accept those torments as reasons for an affair, because our actions are our own choices. That it should be any different here is just hypocritical.

She DID do something wrong, and she worked it out. She couldn't have worked it out if she had swept it under the rug as something that was acceptable.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7484 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
VD2012
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Member # 36317
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm somewhat astonished at some attitudes in this thread. Double standards, generalizations and "old fashioned" thinking ahoy.

We all are held to our own choices regardless of those other's make. Hitting anyone outside of self defense is wrong. Heartbroken2013, like others said (and unlike what some are saying), and what you clearly show you already know, what you did is wrong. There is no need for "you're not as bad as him" or "you reacted normally to a trauma" type responses.

beebee, just a thought, but have you ever considered the notion that if so many disagree with your viewpoint on something that perhaps you're wrong? Everyone may have an opinion, but not every opinion is correct or proper.

Some also may view the ideals of "old fashioned" as antiquated and archaic. We move away from old fashioned ideals for a reason, and typically adopt better ones.

Others have clearly already said more than enough to what you have said, but I do have a question for you.

What should my reaction have been on D-Day to the discovery of my wife's affair?

Can you guess what it was? I bet you can't. I confronted her with the damning evidence of her phone with the question "how could you?" She collapsed into a hyperventilating sobbing mess. I knelt to the ground and I held her.

If I chose to slap her across the mouth would that have been an acceptable reaction? Or is it unacceptable because I'm a man? What recourse do you think is acceptable for betrayed men? There's a bunch in this thread telling you how wrong your viewpoint is.

Yes, she betrayed me, but striking her for any reason would have been beyond repugnant and not remotely something I'd do to someone I love. This stands as a fact of life regardless of gender or label.

Instead of feeling attacked or marginalized perhaps you should open your mind. Holding onto "old fashioned" views because they suit you is just an excuse in all honesty.

[This message edited by VD2012 at 2:10 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]


Me: 28 ~ Her (FR2012): 27
Together: 9 years, 2 children
D-Day: April 19, 2012

Surrender to the truth of life.


Posts: 466 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Traversing Dark Places With The Light of Truth
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Back again...

I am supportive of Heartbroken precisely because she feels bad about what happened. That is the kind of pain that leads to personal growth. You all know the saying, No Pain, No Gain, or as I used to tell my niece and nephew, "Pain is natures way of saying don't do that."

I read in Wayward a lot, and sometimes I hear about some real freak show horror story marriages prior to the affair, and no matter how bad they get, nobody ever Ever EVER says that made the affair okay and don't worry about it. The idea of just excusing, ignoring, justifying or rugsweeping the behavior is anathema to what we are supposed to be about here, and if it was the kind of support being looked for, I suspect the story would not have been posted.

Some of these responses make me so grateful for my pending divorce, because it appears to be a far better relationship than many R's or M's.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, September 15th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just bumped an old thread I had to search for in Wayward.
Physical violence and WH


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Topic Posts: 44
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3

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