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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 14
BAMAC
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Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mechanical engineer here. My wife wasn't looking for a bad boy though, she fucked a married accountant with two kids.


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
BH (Me) 30. WW 30.
Filed.

Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
RyeBread
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Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She had to find a way to fuck it up just to keep it exciting.

WW here always has some kind of drama going on. Whether its a friends personal life she entangled herself into, or contantly "not feeling good", to creating situations or starting arguments, or last minute drastic changes that creates turmoil for everyone involved. It's all like some kind of game to keep things on edge. She seems to thrive on a life of chaos.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Systems developer here. I work in the Software Engineering/R&D department.

ontheslope,
I'd prefer we start work on a teleportation device but punkin chuckin will do for now.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've had a lot of really different jobs, I'm helping with the damned pumpkin throwing machine somehow. I'll be the test dummy, provided I can wear this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWiPiks1sU


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1571 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She seems to thrive on a life of chaos.
Same here. It's like peace and tranquility don't compute for them. My STBX decided that she hadn't done enough in her life and had not done anything on her own. She then proceeded to try to go back and literally finish all her unfinished business like she could redo her life in a year and things would be better. Never finished college, she went on a mission to get her degree, only made it up to the Associates though. This included the partying like she was in college as well. Wasn't satisfied with her job and needed a career so she constantly wanted to change work and thought the work she did do was beneath her. Funny the job she held the longest she got because coworker OM did the interview. Yeah, that was fun to put together after the fact. So of course after we are done she decides she needs to build a house and she justs wants peace and calm in her life. Because you know erasing the last 12 years of your life, ignoring that fact that I paid off ALL of your debt twice, proceeding to build a brand new house with all the furnishings so you can sit on your porch with the kids will make everything all better. I guess the fact that you are just moving your issues into new surroundings means nothing.

I was the guy that kept his shit together until the paperwork and agreements were signed. I got everything I wanted and essentially walked away paying child suport, which I was going to do anyway, 50/50 custody, kept my pension, no spousal support, just had to split one brokerage account. I went through a few anger phases but it's really starting to hit now. I keep it together for the kids but man I am pissed. She wanted to do it all on her own well have at it. Good luck balancing that budget dear and hope you enjoy all that new stuff along with that shit ton of debt.

I have to hurry up and get all this venom out of me. it's taking up to much of my energy. The gym doesn't even help get rid of it all these days.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1559 | Registered: May 2011
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A big Menz thread welcome to doubleboggy and BAMAC.

My dad had wanted me to become an engineer like him but then the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, and drugs came along and I went in another direction entirely. Never had the brain matter for that anyway. My dad died when my younger brother was ten and he's the one who became an engineer. His wife cheated on him as well, took his two children, and bankrupted him.

WW here always has some kind of drama going on. Whether its a friends personal life she entangled herself into, or contantly "not feeling good", to creating situations or starting arguments, or last minute drastic changes that creates turmoil for everyone involved. It's all like some kind of game to keep things on edge. She seems to thrive on a life of chaos.

Same here. It's like peace and tranquility don't compute for them.

I like order which to WW represents boredom. Everything has to be chaotic and high drama or else it's not really living, according to her. It's exhausting!

When I was in AA, where I met her for the first time, they used to tell us that we had been "a hurricane through the lives of others" and that needed to change. I guess WW didn't get that message loud and clear.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
aesir
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Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Given their rules against wadding I think something like a counterweight trebuchet would probably be really effective, since it wouldn't apply any kind of crushing force to the pumpkin before or during launch and could hurl the damn thing pretty far with some solid accuracy and no need for barrels or anything.

With three minutes time to fire you could even maybe apply some additional force to the counterweights to kinda 'spin them up' for lack of better wording. Also that would look cool. Something electromagnetic so there's a big fucking whine like a monster tesla machine about to totally fuck everything up. It would need to look steampunk with big wooden wheels braced with metal sheeting of some kind.

Totally impractical but stylin.

I doubt electric assist is the way to go, it is just to hard to store and release sufficient energy. Although if you could solve the cooking and exploding in the launcher problem, a pumpkin railgun would be cool.

A counterweight trebuchet has the force limited by gravity, and merely adding more weight will not change the launch once the pumpkin becomes insignificant compared to the counterweight. Maybe a kinetic mass (rocket sled?)attached to a traction trebuchet pull ropes, or a clutch system to engage a large flywheel at launch. The flywheel could be energized by a steam engine if that would satisfy SG.

: I wanted to add that I think many times, the justification pattern fits the specific marriage. So if your WW had a chaotic upbringing and your house is relatively stable, then her growing unease gets explained (ex post facto, of course) by her unconscious craving for chaos. If your home environment is somewhat chaotic, then her unhappiness gets explained as not having the stability she's always lacked. It's the game where you always lose.
So what you're really saying is that the justifications are bullshit anyway so don't try to figure them out? That actually makes a lot of sense. I think we do spend a lot of time in search of answers that don't exist, trying to develop comforting theories that fit the known facts, and the theories themselves can become impossibly elaborate as we add in new facts, kind of like the geocentric model of the universe. When you start to add in inexplicable epicycles to your model, it is a good sign you should reevaluate your original premise.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

S
o what you're really saying is that the justifications are bullshit anyway so don't try to figure them out? That actually makes a lot of sense. I think we do spend a lot of time in search of answers that don't exist, trying to develop comforting theories that fit the known facts, and the theories themselves can become impossibly elaborate as we add in new facts, kind of like the geocentric model of the universe. When you start to add in inexplicable epicycles to your model, it is a good sign you should reevaluate your original premise.
Not even necessarily that they are bullshit where it relates to the underlying damaged decision-making processes, but yeah...the 'reasons' for the core damage is probably ridiculously complex...I think a lot of time we see waywards spent time on "Why did I cheat?" and their partners on "Why did s/he cheat on me?". I mean, the answer for that is obvious: because they wanted to, on some level, for some reason. The real question for our WWs to figure out is "Why was that even an attractive option for me to begin with, out of all the other possible choices?"

I mean, we see/hear about WWs saying "Oh, well if you had/hadn't done X, Y, or Z, I wouldn't have cheated." I think it's usually BS, but who knows? Maybe for some individual WWs they WOULDN'T have cheated under the right circumstances....but why was cheating even in their list of probable responses anyway?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1571 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I doubt electric assist is the way to go, it is just to hard to store and release sufficient energy. Although if you could solve the cooking and exploding in the launcher problem, a pumpkin railgun would be cool.

A counterweight trebuchet has the force limited by gravity, and merely adding more weight will not change the launch once the pumpkin becomes insignificant compared to the counterweight. Maybe a kinetic mass (rocket sled?)attached to a traction trebuchet pull ropes, or a clutch system to engage a large flywheel at launch. The flywheel could be energized by a steam engine if that would satisfy SG.

A railgun would be sweet but there is that problem with cooking the thing. Could it somehow be a launch assist where the railgun fires along the tube but the projectile is halted before it exits the barrel, with the purpose of the internal projectile to guide an external carriage for the pumpkin which would launch when the internal is halted - just for illustrative purposes a sling attached to a hook on a slide that moves with the force of the projectile launched by the railgun. I dunno if that'd provide enough force either though since it'd lose a lot between the stops and systems. Also I don't think it would actually work.

I was thinking a trebuchet mainly because it is styling and avoids the problem of cooking the pumpkin in the launch device. I think replacing the counterweight with a flywheel powered by some kind of high powered propulsion system would be awesome. It doesn't have to be powered by low tech, it just has to look low tech.


wrt justifications fitting relationships, yeah. That's why these things all fit together in a common theme. I did [X] because of [Y] where Y never equals anything resembling a conscious decision but some external factor or combination of factors. X = cheated, Y is an open variable that can swap out any value and never change the result until it meets accountability. That's why this shit isn't solved by an affair, it just compounds any issues there are, real or imagined.

The Y doesn't matter because the equation always balances out anyway. Hey that's kind of a pun. THE WHY.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7077 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
nomoreplease
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Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just dropping in to say, one more mechanical engineer.


'one walks away saying "I fought to save God's ideal," and the other must always admit, "I fought to destroy God's ideal!"'

Posts: 343 | Registered: Jul 2011
Razor
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Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

About the whole alpha male thing. I read a article some years ago about how women choose mates. This article was written by a creditable psychologist but since allot of psychology is pseudo science take it with a grain of salt.

Basically it said that women generally choose between 2 types of men. These are Alpha men that show good genes. Good looks. Strength. Resistant to diseases. Basically men with good bodies (that summary is mine). The other time is the good provider. A mate that can provide for her children. Successful. Faithful. Dependable.

The article said that the drive to cheat with women was to mate with the Alpha but trick the Dependable into providing for her baby.

Allot of gross generalizations in the article to be sure. Still though. Thought provoking.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3058 | Registered: Sep 2007
jjct
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Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's why these things all fit together in a common theme. I did [X] because of [Y] where Y never equals anything resembling a conscious decision but some external factor or combination of factors. X = cheated, Y is an open variable that can swap out any value and never change the result until it meets accountability.

Therefore:
Y always equals an internal combination of factors.


Presenting Y as an external:(the open variable AKA "the moving target") then, is nothing but an attempt to avoid consequences.

Which, when you think about it, is also a failure to turn inwardly.
Turning inwardly, and doing the true heart work of introspection is a painful journey.
Some may not be capable.
Some may choose not to.


Posts: 5982 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The reason generalizations can be applied to anything is because they are so broad and vague they can fit themselves into a vast range of situations.

Like saying most people like ice cream. It applies because a lot of people like some form of frozen dairy product. Setting aside for a moment the truly unnatural creation that dairy really is - it's easy to build off of that and it's only when more specific assertions are made that they fall apart.

So most people like ice cream, and most people who like ice cream either prefer chocolate or vanilla. This could still possibly be taken at face value, but the issue becomes the underlying reasoning. People prefer vanilla or chocolate because every other flavor is mediocre. People prefer chocolate or vanilla because they hit the taste centers more effectively than other flavors. people prefer chocolate or vanilla because I have dispatched ninjas to stand behind them and stab them in the asshole with a giant fork if they answer any other flavor.

The disconnect there is that while a generalization may be true to some capacity - most people who like ice cream prefer chocolate or vanilla - I do not actually have a horde of ninja minions, so that assertion is false. Likewise with other assertions and further, the reality of a generalization of any kind is that it is a summary of a vast array of many, many specifics that break down at each level and no longer truly apply to the umbrella.

So alpha male bad boy genes vs provider stable genes. This generalization has been made that there are two types of males. There is never in this discussion any other type of male. There is never in this discussion multiple female roles. It's always the mother role. The mother picking the man to make her baby, then picking the guy to raise it. There are only 3 roles here. The entire basis of human genetic drift does not come down to whether or not a woman = mom and she picks A for one thing and B for another.

Even so, if this was coded into humanity somehow, eventually there would be no providers left. They'd all be fucked out of the gene pool. There's a study people cite sometimes about the offspring of Ghengis Khan, and how at one point in history a significant percentage of a regional area were all descended from him. The two really interesting points to me are this: the first is that it is a unique aberration in nature and therefore no a genetic normality and two, all them guys out there and none of them are also Ghengis fucking Khan. So even if this were the truth, that alpha bad boy is firing himself off a bunch of beta boy providers?

Continued thought patterns shape brain chemistry. If a woman is thinking about her husband in a perpetually negative connotation then she has hard wired herself to view him as undesirable, at which point fucking *anything* that comes along steps into the role of desirable. It's why, IMO, so many WWs cheat with losers compared to the women who go out and look for astronaut billionaires. My wife called the OM an alpha male. The guy plays LARPs and can't hold a job at a convenience store, would never have the balls to face me down and is basically just a complete failure at everything in life. Because he changed the power steering fluid in her car once he was suddenly handy, whereas shit around our house that has been broken for years means I am incompetent - despite my crash courses in plumbing by replacing the wax seal around the toilet, putting in new hoses underneath the bathroom sink, etc. granted, it takes me awhile to get to that but in my defense I generally do most of the housework anymore and before that I put in a lot of hours working.

It's all down to personal perspective really. People see who they want to see, just like people are who they want to be independent of that.

But, because all the time she spent around me looking at me like I was garbage, and all the time she looked forward to spending with him and thinking he was amazing, he was really Sawyer from Lost.

I think the real issue isn't that women choose one guy to fuck and another to be taken care of, I think people are just really fucked in the head when it comes to hormones if they lack a modicum of self control.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7077 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
foundoutlater
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Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to the new Menz – sorry as shit you need to be here but glad you found this little corner of the world to work through it.

Damn that is a lot of slide-ruler testosterone on the Menz thread. I’m an accountant so at least I can analytically understand some it.

OK this could just be my need for things to be simple (or linear), but all the Alpha/Beta Male, two types of men, two reasons women have affairs and so on is just too complicated for my little pea brain today. For me it all does boil down to one generalization. A WS had some fucked up pathway in their choice making that allowed them to act on a physical attraction. I believe that “feeling” or chemical reaction in the brain can happen to anyone when they see the right person or get to know someone and their qualities fit what someone is attracted to. I think it happens to everyone but since I am not everyone IDK. When we promise monogamy in a relationship we promise to close the doors on these decisions to act on that attraction.

I’m not saying the rest of it is bullshit by any means. I see all the “flavors” we discuss as a discussion on which door the WS did not have properly closed. It might just be how I came to peace with her A was not about me and not about the POSER IDK.

I really love the “genetic drift” of it all SG referenced. I’m not sure this will make much sense but Alpha/Beta will always be a failed grocery store chain to me.

ETA I also don’t believe most people have one “type” they are attracted to so if POSER was in anyway dissimilar to me I don’t think that relates at all to my “attractiveness” for my W.

[This message edited by foundoutlater at 1:01 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1058 | Registered: Jul 2011
RyeBread
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Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A railgun would be sweet but there is that problem with cooking the thing.

I don't see anything wrong with putting a pumpkin in and getting a pumpkin pie or even pumpkin custard out of the deal.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fol, that's a really good summary. I just forget I should stop somewhere once I start rolling.

As for cooking the punkin, it's against the rules. Has to be intact until it hits the ground. A cannon that shot pumpkin pies would be pretty fucking epic though.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7077 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
ontheslope
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Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Given the whole "alpha" vs. "provider" discussion....I think the real question for me (and the one that I STILL don't have an answer to) is:

Is she only still with me because, at the moment, there aren't any better options out there for her? I'm a pretty confident guy, and pretty damn successful at what I do (although a WW will kill your confidence PDQ), but it still sticks in my head that, at one point, I wasn't what she wanted. So... now we are trying to R, but... is she only doing it because I'm the best of what's available to her at the moment? Am I the dumb ass "provider" who's willing to take a woman back who would rather be with an Alpha type then with me?

The "alpha" side of me says to just move on - leave the damaged goods on the side of the road and flag down the next truck....but the "provider" in me says stay. You have a family, kids, job, house, cars, etc... and that being a good provider and suffering in silence about it is just the way it is.

Ugh... God I hate that fucking bitch sometimes for having done this to me.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
foundoutlater
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Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don’t have any engineering but I’d be so into the “pit crew” side of it all. I don’t know what it is about it but it is just way to cool to be around shit that shoots things.

SG – please keep forgetting and keep writing – there are some nuggets worth digging for.

OTS – for me the “alpha” side had to know that the W was working on her issues so that the rest of the package the “alpha” side was interested in was worth being there for. Funny I was happy enough to let shit slide until it hurt me.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1058 | Registered: Jul 2011
aesir
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Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...it still sticks in my head that, at one point, I wasn't what she wanted.
More like not the only thing she wanted, otherwise why keep it secret. Think of it like shoes, most of us are satisfied with basic shoes that work for damn near every occasion, but women need special shoes for every occasion and outfit and season and...

Can`t think of an equivalent analogy for to explain WH`s, but here I don`t have to.

A rail gun could work if the pumpkin was in a self arresting metal sabot, but like the flywheel trebuchet, (or rocket sled traction trebuchet) the problem is not in launching, but in keeping the damn thing from self destructing based on it`s own kinetic energy after it launches.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
RyeBread
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Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, September 24th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but it still sticks in my head that, at one point, I wasn't what she wanted.

I had this in my mind too. After a while I decided that if I wasn't what some self absorbed, entitled princess wanted then I was ok with that. She can have the POSER and all his fantastic morals and wonderful personality.

I do like the shoe analogy aesir. I think the WH equivalent might be handguns or beer. But those actually have some value so ya, maybe it is harder to come up with one for the WH.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 956 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
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