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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 14
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My point to Sal (maybe poorly illustrated by my example of my wife's text messaging) is simply to show that after the affair is over (and my wife's ended completely and resolutely) the WS needs to fill in the time that was originally spent managing the affair.

I respect what you're saying, just disagreeing with the idea that patience is the same as dispensing with Fuck You as an answer. It's not hard to fill in that time, and if it is hard then she needs to put on her big girl pants and do it.

I don't think people ever completely "fix" issues. So you're right that we should not expect 30 years of issues to be resolved in 6 months - but we should also be willing to say Fuck You, Not Good Enough when it's merited.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
LifeisCrazy
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Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred - I hear the pain in your posts and the fatigue that comes with waiting for a WS to redeem herself. I can only guess at what it must be to survive the tragedy but feel that you never come out ahead.

Part of my being able to move past the affair has been twofold... and I hope there's a lesson in here somewhere. First, my wife has been, from day 1, utterly remorseful and willing to do anything - and I mean ANYTHING - to fix herself and change the marriage. In that regard, I've been lucky.

But the second thing is that I've been able to keep the affair in perspective - especially since about 6 months ago. The fact that she was fucking some other guy no longer bugs me like it used to. I am able to think and talk about the affair without getting caught up in the blame game that often overwhelms betrayed men. Maybe it's my personality, maybe it's my philosophical leanings, maybe I'm just stupid. Who knows.

For example, to use the texting that I referenced, I now realize that her communication/involvement with the OM were part of her affair. That doesn't mean that I like it, or condone it, or that it never bothers me. Of course it does. But you know what? It's over. It is history. It is a sad event in a horrible chapter of our lives.

For me to continue to stick it in her face and yell, "What the fuck were you thinking?" or ignore that there's going to be some adjusting to our new life simply continues the pain.

I have said, quite often, that once I was able to trust my wife's remorse there was no longer a reason to bash her over the head. That ability to work forward, to move ahead, has made the quintessential difference in our reconciliation. I could have easy smacked her over the head with regular derision - but who wins from that?

If you're wife isn't "back in the game," then get the hell out. But, as I've said, if she's doing the best she can... and you want it.... then stick out a hand and help her up.

I know this seems to go against the grain in a men's forum but I firmly believe that if you're gonna be in, then be ALL in.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 128 | Registered: Jan 2013
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LifeisCrazy,

Sounds like you have your situation figured out and are doing what's best for you. Keep going down that path and I pray it continues to be a healthy one for you and your fWW.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Im going to stand over with *Team Pissed Off* regarding the text message comments.

Those texts should have been going to her husband. Not some OM. It was more than wasted time. It was time spent actively destroying the M and her husband and her family.

I think *accepting* too much turns a BH into a door mat in the eyes of SOME WWs. With no consequences and maybe even a better M after the LTA. Why not have another?

The last convo I had with my WW that is similar to what has been talked about here. I told her

*if you are missing him GO. GO be with him and live a nice happy life with him. GO we will have a nice amicable D and you can live the life you want with the man of your dreams. Just GO and stop hurting me just because you want someone else.*

That ended any comments from her about missing OM.

Some years ago I read an article wherein it was stated that 90% of WS view their M as *better* than before their affair. Obviously the BS had quite the opposite statistic. I have heard WS say that their M is better post affair and question that maybe the affair and all the pain caused was worth it.

When I hear this my gut reaction is to say *M better after the affiar? ok. great. Ill go cheat on you and make our M even better!*

Begin venting.
Part of the unfairness of all this is that the WS gets to have that better M. They get to have their little vacation. They have all this great sex and love letters and secret meetings and even going to fun places together. All the while WE are left in a single parent mode taking care of house and kids and bills and all the rest of it. Where the hell is OUR vacation? And the reward for this vacation is a better M? WTH.

No. You dont get to miss OM. If you miss him then get the hell out.
End venting.

[This message edited by Razor at 11:26 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LIC,

I agree with you on being all in. Probably why I'm still in my marriage . We've just been on different roads to get here.

First, my wife has been, from day 1, utterly remorseful and willing to do anything
Yeah, I didn't have that luxury. I wonder where we would be right now if I didn't catch her in the affair, she was completely honest from day 1, there was no TT, no lies of omission, no months of fog, no broken NC, yada yada yada. One difference is I'm only about 5 months out from the last setback, and only 3 months out from when I confronted her with the truth. It's tough when you extend not only 1 hand to help them up, but both.

Let me clear - I really love her. I'm committed to my family. It's just that I'm not good yet knowing that she is willing to betray me, violate my trust, keep secrets from me, as long as she thinks I won't find out. That's what her actions have proved over the past 23 months. Her words say "I'll spend every day making this up to you". Actions, not words. So I'm going to enjoy my life, make the most of it, have fun, and when I'm done with the calculus to heal myself and find out that my wife isn't integral to my happiness, I'll be ok with that then. Until then, both my hands are out to help her. But I'm done picking her up...she has to reach for them and help pull her own ass off the floor.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Where the hell is OUR vacation?

I want to second your vent Razor.

A few days after Dday my WW said she was going to stay at a friends house for a couple weeks so I could get some space. Aside from the stupidity of her assummption (most likely an excuse to have some ME time with OM), I looked at her and said "If anyone is getting a vacation it's me. I've been doing literally everything the last couple years while you followed your dreams and now come to find out the magic penis." She didn't take the "vacation". I was (and still am) mentally and emotionally exhausted over all that abused/wasted time. Playtime is over for her.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the best way to END that missing OM business is to simply show them the door.

*GO. Have a nice life. And dont let the door smack your behind on the way out.*

A strong dose of reality will either end those fond memories and missing OM shit and if it doesnt there is no hope for the M.

[This message edited by Razor at 11:56 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
LifeisCrazy
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Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah..... I see the confusion. And I apologize.

My comments about her texting was in reference to her texting BEFORE the affair ended, not after.

Hell, if she was doing that after DDay - oh, you betcha, the shit would have struck the proverbial fan.

I apologize if I wasn't clear. Hopefully now you see where I was coming from.

The again, maybe not...

Anyway, off to break in the Jeep. Woo hoo!


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 128 | Registered: Jan 2013
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyway, off to break in the Jeep. Woo hoo!

I miss my 04 Wrangler Unlimited...Have fun!


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I miss going bush in our old Land Cruiser. Had a '96 80 Series that was built for the Outback. Drove it all across Oz: the Great Victorian Desert, Gibbs River Road, the Tanami, Finke River, Gunyah Beach (talk about sand dunes). Ahhhh, the good old days. Now the only 4WD is the wife's new Highlander...doubt she'd let me take it off road


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nice Tred.

I loved snow days here. Drop the ol jeep in 4 low and plow right through that stuff like a hot knife through butter, waving to the cars as I passed them..lol


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWIW, I think that the BS can be patient while not taking any shit. As BSes, we all know that our wayward spouses are going to fuck up along the way even if reconciliation is going to be successful. They just are.

However, my guess would be that many WWs are going to take at least as much slack as you give them, and probably complain about wanting or needing more....at least in the early stages. There's something to be said for knowing (and maybe even kind of half-expecting)that they are going to make stupid missteps in the back of your head, while not giving an inch IRL.

Given most of our WWs histories, I suspect that if you tell them outright that you know there are going to be missteps and fuckups along the way, you are guaranteeing yourself to see more of them, because now they know that a certain undetermined number will be simply written off as such. It feels compassionate and loving, but it's probably going to punch you in the dick later. It's like being in school and knowing that your two lowest test grades will get dropped....you end up planning accordingly ahead of time if you're that kind of student. I read WAL describe the process after DDAY as a war of attrition, and I think that's a valid idea. You fight for every fucking inch and concession, and you don't ever give it back for a good, long, time....while knowing in the back of your head that even in a winning war you don't usually win every single battle.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I used to have a '76 Land Cruiser FJ40 that I tooled around in the mountains and off roads here in Colorado. Fun stuff! Loved that vehicle...

Posts: 4581 | Registered: Dec 2010
h0peless
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Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I drive a lightly modified 2001 Cherokee. Not a whole lot of snow here but I love dropping it into 4 lo and taking off down some random Forest Service road with my dogs. I need to replace a track bar end and my transmission cooler lines before I can head out again but it's a ton of fun.

Posts: 1326 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Arizona
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If the end result is the only measure of success why wouldn't this be the logical path ?

Because you're better than that, Numb.

I can feel your anger and frustration in your post. Was this one bad incident, or something that has building up over time?


Posts: 4581 | Registered: Dec 2010
MoreWould
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Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Madhatter here. I can more than imagine where you guys are coming from on this, I went down that road for a night.

Some years ago I read an article wherein it was stated that 90% of WS view their M as *better* than before their affair. Obviously the BS had quite the opposite statistic. I have heard WS say that their M is better post affair and question that maybe the affair and all the pain caused was worth it.

The official SI dogma is RA is not worth it, and I'm here to tell you that advice is 80% correct. If you are so jealous of your WW for the "good parts", and the free ride she got, go try it and get a big helping of the 20%. I'm here to tell you, that part is fucking great.

But then, there's the remainder.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

numb&dumb -

Times like this it bring me back to what has this cost her ? Really her life is the same as it ever was.

In my particular situation, WW's outward facade, the mask, has hardened over the years but I'm no longer fooled by it. She's in pain because she's chosen to live a life of secrets and lies. That was her choice not mine. Forgiveness was offered and rejected. She got away with nothing and it's her own damn fault.

For me, as long as I insisted on taking my pound of flesh and making her suffer for her misdeeds, I got tangled up in her downward spiral. No more!

Although I completely understand your anger, these days I'm not angry, just at times stunned and perplexed by how some people purposely destroy their M and their lives.

On another note: I miss my little, blue 61 Austin Healy Sprite with dual carbs. Kind of like riding around in a go-kart.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's why I'm in therapy . Not sure why she isn't though...

Tred, I'm not trying to tell you how to handle your R, it's none of my business. I'm just going to say that in my particular case therapy for my wife was not an option. It ranked right up there with STD testing and immediate NC w/ OM. I can't even imagine where my wife would be without MC/IC right now. If the two of you are able to ultimately R without it, my hat's off to you. We know a couple IRL who managed it, but I can't imagine how my WW and I would even still be living in the same house without her getting regular counseling since late Feb. We found an excellent counselor, so maybe I'm biased.

Each of us has to walk our own path so you keep doing you man, I wish you and your W the best.

Thanks 7yrsflushed. There's no doubt my wife is remorseful and trying like hell to right the wrong. It helps that she was trying to get "rescued" from the affair for months before I caught her. I correctly guessed last night that the OM had dirt on her in the form of some nudie pics, so she was scared to dump the POS. She tried to annoy him into dumping her, which we all know doesn't work because (a) he doesn't have to live with her; and (b) a man will put up with a lot to keep the steady supply of hot sex coming. She even left her email open for me to find several times, but instead of snooping I just logged out. It kills me that the incriminating emails were right there for me to find months before D Day.

Looking back on D Day, I realized how bizarre the whole scenario was. My wife was arguing with her lover in a cell phone conversation after slipping to the side of the house and being absent far too long. Of course I would come looking for her eventually. And she seemed to not have noticed me standing right there for an unusually long period of time. In hindsight it seems a little staged, like she was desperate to get caught.

So what does this have to do with our recent turmoil? Conflict avoidance. My wife didn't have it in her to tell me pre-A that she thought we had marital problems that needed immediate attention. She didn't have it in her to confess the A in an open and honest way that would enable her to end it on her terms much earlier than it did. And she didn't have it in her to tell me about the credit card that she neglected to pay and the true nature of the calls that she played off as telemarketers. Anything to avoid conflict.

The IC has been working on that, but a lifetime of habits dies hard. A few days ago I said "fuck it", not living my life this way anymore. I recently realized, with a nudge from LIC, that my expectations are not realistic at this stage of the game. For now the fact that she's sincerely trying to grow and make amends will have to do.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,
I'm not trying to tell you how to handle your R

Sure you are . That's what we do here in the Menz thread! She was in IC for a couple of months but quit going. I did insist on it. I'm just not going to badger her about it - if she thinks she doesn't need it, fine. I've told her I think she should find another IC if she didn't like the last one, but I'm not going to make her go because a) I can't and b) what's the point? I can't see whats in her head and I'm not going to try anymore. I had the epiphany that I really do not know her as well as I thought I did a while back. I'm not going to ever make that mistake again.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sure you are

Well, maybe a little

I get what you're saying, brother. Like 7years said we each walk our own path. Thanks for not telling me to Eff off or mind my own business.

We have to stick our neck out a little sometimes or it wouldn't be a Menz thread, right?


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
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