I had been asking for us to go back to marriage counselling and finally one day, he suggested for us to go. So before he could change his mind, I made an appt. We are going tonight and I feel nervous. Last night I reminded him that it was today and he said he doesn't know why we are bothering. I said I thought you wanted to go again. And then he says "I should have just cheated on you when I had the chance. Just get it over with." It always comes back to this. It's like he just can't get the thought of RA out of his head and obsesses over it. It disgusts me to no end. I ask him if he thinks our marriage can handle another affair. He said I wouldn't have to tell you. I calmly say it's not that simple because if it was I would have kept it a secret too. Instead it eats you alive and makes you feel horrible inside and out. It brings more misery. I started to tear up and he's like you don't have to cry about it. I tell him that I haven't cried about it for a long time and thinking about my cheating makes me sick and disgusted with myself. We talk a bit more and then that's about it for that convo.
I'm not even sure what we should be talking about tonight anymore. His general anger towards me? Rehash my cheating? Talk about his desire to cheat on me? Fuck we only have an hour... And limited money so it's not like we can say see ya next week to the MC.
I'm just sitting here with my baby on my lap and feeling helpless. I know one day my BH will cheat on me. After all, he's still hung up on the idea. At first i thought it was to scare me but that is naive for me to think that now. What's the point of our marriage now? For the sake our daughter? Out of love? The only thing that makes sense to me is to tough it out now and get my ducks in a row to leave him. I can't live like this. If he hates me so much, why does he bother?
Sigh... Feeling low right now. Maybe marriage counselling later will be helpful?
The WW formerly known as messedupchick
I think my #1 question is, how is his alcoholism in all this?
Also, didn't he try to rugsweep all this in the beginning? Could he finally be facing this "for real" now?
Maybe he resents you because now he's shanghaied in because of the baby. You have a child together. If you separate, he's screwed for 18 years because of child support. Yeah, I know. Both parents are responsible for the raising of the children. Should be a non-issue, but for some, it is.
he thinks I'm lazy because the house isn't spotless all the time.
he's mad that I haven't lost all the baby weight yet.
But, could those statements, as mean as they are, be tied in with all the anger and resentment? Or is this an on-going thing? Meaning, did he harp on the house and your body pre-Dday and pre-baby?
I don't think I have to tell you that this is going to take more than 1 MC session. Which he may or may not attend.
(((MUC & baby)))
"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne
"You can do it!" - R. Schneider
Whether he stays married to you or marries someone else someday, he simply can't act the way he's acting. As unfathomable as I find infidelity, it is simply not an excuse for meanness and pettiness.
He's hurting. Still. But he's going to be hurting forever (and destroying any chance you have of reconciling) unless he heals himself. You can contribute to that, but he has to start it and be committed to it himself. I think THAT'S the message you need to try to get through to him tonight with an MC there to mediate: you're sorry for the horrible decision you made to cheat, you love him, you want to save your marriage and keep your family intact, you want to help him heal and to have a safe place to vent. IC is that place. And if he chooses, then, to leave the marriage, then that's out of your control. But a RA solves nothing and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat you.
[This message edited by RippedSoul at 12:40 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]
Its a matter of putting your affair guilt to one side for the sake of ultimately saving the relationship. He has to treat you with courtesy and good manners or this marriage is going to disintegrate.
I'm sorry things are sucking for you lately. My DDay is very close to yours and I've been feeling we are stuck lately too. My BH has been respectful but he is full of anger. I think the way my BH expressing his anger has helped me to cope with it well. It's still tough but doable.
It sounds like your BH could really use some IC to help him find some healthier ways to cope. We all know that an RA won't help him to deal with betrayal. But I don't think his lashing out at you is helping him to feel better either.
I've read your posts since the beginning....I think you have been pretty much the model remorseful wayward, right? Transparency, NC, empathy, compassion, honesty, not being defensive when questioned...those things are essential in helping our BHes to heal. It's also essential that we dig to find out why we cheated and fix the flaws that allowed us to make such screwed up choices.
For many of us waywards lack of (or loss of due to our actions) self respect coupled with poor boundaries is part of that picture.
I'm sure you have had a lot on your plate with your pregnancy, preparing for baby and now the rigors of being a new mommy. Have you been able to continue to work on yourself?
How do you handle the cutting remarks about the house and your figure? Healthy boundaries and good communication skills would definitely be called for to handle his douchieness in a way that fosters R. IMO it's not good for you, him or your marriage for you to suffer in silence.
It's possible he may be testing you (he may not even realize it). My BH has constant doubts about my love for him, my motives for R, if I will wake up tomorrow and leave, if I will cheat again if things get rough. I know this and I try to show my commitment and love in many ways every day. I'm guessing your BH has some doubts too. With a brand new baby it's normal for your main focus to shift from your BH to the baby. While he may rationally understand this is natural and even necessary it's likely that he wasn't prepared for the feelings this shift would bring out in him as a BH.
It takes a year for your body to recover from growing and birthing a baby. Be patient and gentle with yourself even if he isn't. Enjoy your baby. Rest and do what you can. The house doesn't have to be perfect.
Communication is key.
I hope things get better soon.
Give that beautiful baby a cuddle and a kiss for me.
As unfathomable as I find infidelity, it is simply not an excuse for meanness and pettiness.
Transparency goes both ways. I don't think I would've cleaned up my act in my contributions to the marriage if my FWH didn't call me out and were transparent in his feelings too just as I am. True R means really listening to each other and putting everything on the table. I mean EVERYTHING. Also remember, he may have triggers and he just didn't tell you. So it's good to comfort him as well - I know it's difficult but between couples there's a way to comfort and give 2x4 at the same time. How that's done is between the two of you.
Hope that helps.
True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.
Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.
Yeah my silence has only meant that I'm busy with the baby that wants to be held or fed all day. She's not a good napper so it's been tough at times, luckily she's an awesome night sleeper. Can't win em all I guess.
His drinking has been a non-issue luckily. Seems to have smartened up and grown up a lot in that aspect since becoming a dad.
I know he had wanted to rug sweep or declared everything to be water under the bridge so it could be possible that he's finally facing it now. I wish he would talk to me about how he feels rather than leave me guessing as to why he's being a jerk. Last night was the first time in a long time that he has opened up a little but I almost wish he didn't as it led to his RA thoughts again. He doesn't get it that it's not actually an RA but just a regular A that he would have to own himself. Pinning his unhealthy thoughts on me to own is horrible. He's so broken and hung up on his own ego that it gets in the way of being happy with himself.
Did he harp on me before? Not on the house really. He's a slob so it's not like he could badger me about it since I'm the only one that cleans. Now he thinks "I have all day" to do it. To put a stop on his complaints I hired a house cleaner to come a few times. Heck if $60 for 4 hours solves his bitching, it was money well spent.
And he has always had something to say about my body. If I was tiny, ate junk food and didn't exercise he wouldn't say a word. But I'm average size, eat healthy and run a few miles a day as often as I can with a stroller and a dog but that's not enough he says. Whatevs. After a csection it has taken time to recover and get back into shape. I'm feeling good and that's all that matters right now.
Thanks for hugs and support 😊 no it won't take 1 MC session to solve it but we gotta start somewhere
Ripped soul. He refuses IC so MC is the only route. He also refuses this site too. You are totally right. Yes I carry a lot of guilt and pretty much the only reason why I have tolerated his verbal lashings. Sometimes I wonder if he would still be like this without my As. I won't ever know now but he was a jerk preA too which is why my broken self had no problem ruthlessly cheating on him.
Ok now. Yes I have told him that. I told him that if was to continue treating me shit every day it would lead to divorce. A lot of damage has been done for my respect for him. From about 3 weeks PP until 11 weeks (last week) , he was an asshole to me. If I had PPD, I would be hanging by a thread to survive each day. This little girl of ours has been so wonderful and makes getting up each day a real joy.
Thanks for the comments :)
What are you doing to take care of you? What are your boundaries? What is your plan should your husband decide to say fuck it?
I'm busy with the baby that wants to be held or fed all day.
I was lucky to get a shower every 48 hours. And that would only happen when I laid DS on a blanket in the bathroom floor, me rushing thru my shower, singing/talking to him the entire time, praying he didn't howl himself into a frenzy so I could shave my legs for once. He screamed anyway.
I know you don't want to hear this now, but it really does get better with time. DS is still a full-on clinger, but I can at least take a shower and use the bathroom alone now.
Now he thinks "I have all day" to do it.
Heck if $60 for 4 hours solves his bitching, it was money well spent.
I'm feeling good and that's all that matters right now.
Also, think about MJ's questions very seriously. Because unfortunately, it may come down to that.
[This message edited by Aubrie84 at 3:02 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]
It's been said on here but is worth repeating that he needs IC. He needs IC.
My counter to the RA (to anyone) would be to ask when on God's green earth has anyone ever been healed by inflicting damage on someone else. When we need to heal the hardest part is remembering that it is our healing. We own that. It ultimately doesn't matter if the hurt was caused by someone or something else. Once we've incurred that wound it belongs to us. That is another reason why forgiveness is truthfully said to be more about the forgiver.
It bears pointing out that the "R" in RA stands for "revenge". As in intentional and malicious infliction of pain and distress. Revenge is not about healing. How does one seek revenge against someone and think that after getting that revenge they can then have a healthy, balanced relationship again? He's focused on how an RA will supposedly make him feel better, which we know it really won't.
In other words can he answer the question "How will an RA help us?"
If it's not good for you (i.e. the both of you) then why pursue it?
You have done everything possible for him to be happy, and still he is unhappy. That's because happiness comes from within, not from others. He needs to work himself. Although you have made it easier, he still needs to do the work himself. He needs to understand his history and not run or hide from it. No matter how hard he runs or hides, his history will always follow him. He thinks about it every day. The trick is that he needs to face it, lean into it, understand it, process it, and accept it, so that when he thinks about it, it doesn't hurt. An event like this is expected to change a person, so he needs to let it change him, positively. It can yield him wisdom.
Anger. Anger is a mask for fear. What is he fearing? Is he fearing being hurt again? Would he rather just live angrily for the rest of his life? Really? He needs to build himself up to where he knows he will survive happily regardless of if you or anyone else does this to him again.
Communication. I ALWAYS felt better after talking about it. Talk to him. Prove to him that talking will make him fell better.
Love: is seeing yourself positively through another. How can he not see this being with you and your new child.
Yes it hurts, and you should have never done this to him. But he still has a choice to live his life positively with you and your child. It is possible.
When the WS and the BS are both emotionally immature, they both need to grow mentally to reach maximum recovery.
[This message edited by still-living at 4:34 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]
My dog farted, startled himself, wondered where the noise came from. I wish my life was as simple.
I didn't see your comment until after I hit submit. I guess it's been taking too long to write a post lol.
You've made some points and questions to me. It's been a while since I've put focus on being a model wayward. I've had no contact, being transparent all the time, definitely empathetic towards him, try to assure him that I love him which I was doing last night when we talked. Every day by making him food which really makes him happy. I like doing things for him but if I get yelled at for not doing something perfect it takes all the fun out of helping him. That's also when I find it hard it difficult You ask how do I handle myself with his cutting remarks? I do exercise my boundaries. I tell him that I will not accept that type of treatment and then he gets all in a huff and threatens to divorce me because this is how it's gonna be. The hard part about writing this all down is that it makes it look like I'm being stupid for staying. I'm not an idiot I know that he is doing a form of verbal abuse and I just try to shield it like I did as a child with my mom.
You're right he's probably testing me without knowing it. How much can I take so that if I decide to leave he can blame me for everything from cheating and ending the marriage myself. He hasn't told anyone in his family about what I did but if we divorced my name would get smeared for sure.
You also asked what do I do to work on myself? I'm not even sure what else I can do. Maybe I'm stuck in the journey. I went to IC for about 10 months which helped me a lot. I haven't gone since the baby. For one I can't afford it and feeling good about me so perhaps I don't need it anymore.
You're right about True R which I don't feel we are in. He decided right away that he wanted to R with me and we made great strides in the first 3 months. We were actively in MC for about 2 months before I found out I was pregnant. It was planned even and we had everything on the table for R including going forward with starting a family (I had 2 miscarriages before) so it's not like it was a rash decision. The point I'm making is I thought we had everything in place and it's become undone this past year. Mainly because he tried to rugsweep on his end. Hopefully tonight it can be a new beginning to R again now that we have a baby.
What am I doing for me? Mainly it's just trying to make sure I've been happy, eating healthy, exercising and spending time with girlfriends and their kids. But specifically on my own, there isn't any "me" time. Haha maybe driving is me time?
What are my boundaries? I have worked a lot on boundaries with both family, friends, strangers and it's been hard though with my BH. I try to set my boundaries with him for respecting me and what I will tolerate. One thing that I will discuss with him at MC is the horrible treatment. I already have told him that if it continues I have to leave. But I have no idea how much I can take before I say no more. Tonight I want to draw a line in the sand. Fresh start or live in misery until one of us ends it.
If he says fuck it? I think it would be me who moves out because his ego sucks. Although the house is under my name because it was my down payment and credit history that was used. He claims this house to be his. We can't really afford to sell it so likely he would live here. I would go to my parents house until I was back to work and in a new place.
Aubrie: I'm wearing her in a Ergo carrier right now. She wouldn't go down for a nap so I put her in it and she sleeps for a long time. It's the only way I would have been able to reply back to this post
You're right we all know an RA will not make him feel better. He doesn't want to listen to me about it because he thinks I only say that to prevent getting cheated on. In reality it would make him feel worse and likely villianise me more to help make him feel better again. Being a cheater brings on serious pain and people don't realize it or care for that matter. He just doesn't want to see the big picture. At this point it's not a threat, it's probably gonna happen if we continue down this path. I hope I can get through to him again.
Anyways thanks all for the comments. Given me more clarity for tonight
If he's not mad about the house, he's mad that I haven't lost all the baby weight yet. I get picked apart most days and it's disheartening. I don't know why he is like this now.
This is classic passive-aggressive. He wants to push you into leaving so that he can be the victim. It isn't a healthy way to resolve anything.
The obsession with a revenge affair and the burning desire to inflict hurt on you is distressing. As a BS, this is a fairly normal phase, but for those wanting reconciliation, it is a phase that has to pass. We cannot be in a healthy relationship constantly wanting to hurt our partner. It runs counter to the emotions that should be present in a healthy, giving, reciprocal relationship. Plus, as you know, it isn't going to fix a single thing.
He really needs to face his demons and work things out within himself. Maybe he truly does want to end the marriage. If so, there are many, MANY more healthy ways to do that than pushing you until YOU end it (which is what I think he might be doing).
One person cannot save the marriage on their own. It takes both partners being committed to some pretty hard work to make it happen. Have you asked him how he expects healing to happen when so much rage, resentment, anger and lashing out continues? There is a far cry from letting feelings out and continuing to deliberately taunt, bait and belittle one's partner.
As a BS, this behavior raises some red flags, as many of our WSs (mine included) changed into total assholes during the affair. Could he be involved in an affair?
I'm sorry you're going through this. It is okay to stand up for yourself and refuse to accept being treated in this way.
MC went well last night. When he came home from work he said it was going to be a waste of money. I said, yeah you''re right.. If you go into the session with an attitude that it''s a waste of money, it will be. But if you go there with an open mind and positive attitude to work on our marriage, it will be valuable and worth the money. He agreed with me and off we went with our 12 week old in tow. (She was a perfect angel during the session) she must have know that mom and dad needed to talk.
As I said, he doesn''t like going but he sure had a lot to say and was really opening up. I was surprised that when the counsellor asked what brought us there today, he knew everything that was the problem and how poorly he has been treating me. For about half hour, I listened to them talk to each other. She gave him a lot of advice and tools that he can work with on a daily basis. He knows that I have a scar on my heart from being treated badly and I scarred him by cheating.
Going forward we promised to commit to loving each other every day and have new rituals to practice. We talked about my personal boundaries for if he is in a bad mood from work. If he crosses the line, our code word is boundary. And if I say that, he knows that I''m standing my ground.
I know that I can be happily married to him as long as we are both commited. We discussed his RA threats in depth. I can actually feel like I can trust him to not do it. He isn''t sure he can trust me yet so counsellor pointed out that he has to look at my post affair behavior as a guide. I''m an open book and if he has any worries he can question me or even GPS track my phone. I''m never gonna cheat again and only time will show him that I have changed.
As for him having an active A? Not a chance right now. He works construction and comes dirty and at the same time every day. Our weekends are spent together so that is ruled out too.
I''m feeling good about everything today. I truly believe its a fresh start. We also agreed if needed we will go to MC in a few weeks.
No IC for me anymore. I went for 10 months and feel good about everything I learned and even worked thru the FOO issues I had. If there comes a time when I need it, I will go again
[This message edited by messedupchick at 3:13 PM, September 24th, 2013 (Tuesday)]