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User Topic: Dazed and Confused
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Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear everyone! Thank you for your support.

You are right, my MC seems very week. I feel I am the one pushing the issues and trying to get to the truth. It’s simply odd but the MC is a major part of why I sometimes think I am overstating what is really happening. I am torn about switching since we are 1.5 months into therapy and I would hate to start over.

Chicken or the egg? Again something else that I have been wracking my brain. Did the sexting come first or did it come after the decline in our relationship? I can do some research and maybe find out when the messages ramped up, but I am tell you she started sleeping with her phone about 1.5 months ago and about the same time we had the talk about smothering and need for space

We do have a timeline in place for a decision on the R. Within the next two months we are going to continue with the MC then decide if there is any hope or simply stop going.

My plan:
I am planning to come clean at the next session. I plan to expose what I know, and when I learned it. I plan to simply lay out the facts, right/wrong/indifferent and allow her to respond or not. It’s funny, I am far less concerned with the sexting, but the lying is what keeps me awake at night. We need to reach a place of honesty and stop the games.

If she is seeking attention, then that is a problem we can work on. If she is pursuing an alternate life, well I have my answer.

I sent my MC a message stating that facts and requesting guidance but she seems to not respond. Maybe she doesn’t work outside the prescribed hour or maybe she doesn’t want to give advice over email. Either way, it is very frustrating.

Still deciding – I do not what to be numb. I, however do need to sleep and eat (down 25lbs – 13% of my body weight in 1.5 months). I need to work and I simply can not focus for very long. Plus I have never taken anything like it and I do not want to commit to the 6 months then the withdrawal. There has to be another answer. Maybe tonight, Maybe not…

Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
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Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I can share what I did after d-day to cope physically. I didn’t do anti-depressants and in retrospect that was probably a mistake. I should have taken all the help I could – including anti-d’s. But even if you do take anti-d’s then I suggest you consider the following tips.

Eat. The energy food gives you is needed right now to fight your negative feelings. So eat. I can guess you really don’t feel like eating so simply schedule feeding periods. Stop seeing it as food and look at it as medication. Right now getting food beats eating healthy (although you really should try to combine the two).
You can go to a health store and buy power shakes. Blend them in milk or water and you have a “meal”. If you don’t feel like eating in the morning then take one of those on your commute. Have a fruit before lunch; schedule it so you are nibbling at something every 2-3 hours. Some nuts, raisins, dried fruit... Don’t feel like lunch? Another power-shake, a quick and dirty hamburger… whatever. Just make sure you get some energy into your body. Although healthy is better than unhealthy then eating is more important than starving.

Exercise. To me this was the most important factor. I was already in good shape at my d-day but I upped my exercise level considerably. Even if you are a couch potato then now is the time to start walking or jogging. Take the kids in a stroller and walk for an hour. Go to a gym and lift weights. Go get the “how to do a hundred pushups in four weeks” pdf online. And the one about abs… Whatever. Just make sure you do something other than slouch on the couch when you get home feeling all sorry for yourself.

Do chores. Make a list of 20 things that need to be done around the home. Your car need totaling? Do it. Your socks need sorting? Do it. Paint the kid’s bedroom? Do it. I had a very short list – basically it was my car, my parent’s cars and my brothers car needed totaling. So those cars got waxed weekly for a couple of months! But whenever I was feeling blue, had done my run and weights and couldn’t sleep… I was out there waxing.

Any hobbies you have, have wanted or are missing out on? This is the time to get your golf-drive fixed. This is when you start fly-fishing. This is when you try skeet-shooting.

One thing I managed to do was create a haven at work. Before entering work I would sit in my car for a minute and simply concentrate on that for the next 8-12 hours my body and mind belonged to my job. I would refuse myself the “luxury” of thinking about the affair. And then – once inside – IF my mind started wandering I would remind myself of my commitment. I would refuse my mind the ability to remain in that dark area. It sounds Zen like and like a load of crock but for me it worked. It often required a number of conscious decisions to move on but I managed. It became so that I looked forwards to going to work because there I got peace (and didn’t have to wax my car!).

Like I said in the beginning. I didn’t take AD’s. But if I had to deal with the same situation again I probably would. But I would DEFINITELY go back to my original reactions and eat, exercise and divert my mind.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bigger, and everyone else, thank you for your support.
Bigger – you nailed it. Your advice was so very helpful and I am doing all the things your recommended.

Update for all of you (comment if you like)
• We are still going to counseling, wearing our wedding rings, and living separate.
• We have agreed we ‘are committed’ to each other
• We have a good relationship regarding family and the kids
• She is happy being on her own and is working on her issues that were identified with her counselor
So, in short – things are ok. If we were to do nothing else, the separation agreement would run its course, the marriage would dissolve and we would end things but remain friends? (I hate that term), but we would co-parent from separate homes. Things could be far worse, but I want more for me and my kids.

My status:
I opted not to take the Anti-Ds. I have been improving and feeling less despair over the month. The 6 month commitment, side effects, withdrawal, and plain old ‘numbness’ made me chose not to start the meds. I do however have an appointment with the Doc, and I am going to revisit any meds that require less of a commitment and drawbacks. If there is none, then that’s it.

I have been following the 180 – I have started to move on to some degree. She has noticed a difference and she even mentioned how hard the first week was for her. As I mentioned, I am still committed, but I am doing all the things I wanted and digging into all the ‘to do’ things in the home. Keeping busy is key even if is the last thing I want to do.

I am working again, my efficiently is way down and I come in everyday and I am able to focus. I do need some down time but there is a steady improvement.

I have started eating again – healthy. I am already fit, but working out and working on me helps with the emotional pain.

Dirty Details:
She has never admitted to sexting and she seems content never to discuss again. She seems to believe that the BS ‘I planted that message’ was accepted.
As I mentioned, I was less hurt with the fact that she did it but the fact she lied
I know I should never assume – but I assume she lied so she didn’t have to be the bad guy and ‘come clean’ about one of the reasons she moved from our home.

Where to go / what to do?
I need time, but I also want a decision about starting new. I also think I will not get a decision from her for some time… So I wait. That seems to be the hardest thing, not knowing if to mend and move on or wait and R.

Love is a weird thing – I am normally very strong and would force the clean break but I want my family as it was not how it is. Even though I know that I could find a partner that would be a better fit, I am willing to accept certain flaws in our relationship while continuing to work on it.

I know – this was a long post and long topic, but your responses are the closest thing to pure support.
I appreciate any feedback/guidance/thoughts.

Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
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Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Dazed,

What I’m going to post might sound contradicting but bear with me…

First of all – I’m not a great fan of separation. I have a feeling you two won’t reconcile while she’s living somewhere else. After all – how can you work on fixing things when apart? But then – that’s my POV.

Second – If you have read any of my (by most standards) numerous and long-winded posts you know of my theory of making the marriage attractive, the affair hard and leaving the marriage difficult. Well… Being separated you have limited options to do these things.

I say stick to the 180 but make sure that all and any contact you are smartly dressed, manicured and happy. Not “ha-ha” happy but not grumpy and sad. Look content as if you have accepted a tough decision and are OK with it.

Regarding the “being friends after divorce”…
I do NOT believe in making divorce tougher than it needs to be. My advice “make leaving the marriage difficult” is simply based on fact and truth. In divorce “amicable” does not mean “friendly” – it means not carrying out your wish to claw out each other eyes. Divorce is TOUGH and I haven’t heard of a single one that didn’t negatively impact both partners. However… before entering the foyer of D many people have this vision on how assets and debts will be split and way too often it’s an unbalanced picture. Way too often it’s the wife that envision living in the house, having the kids and the ex coming over Sunday morning to mow the lawn and clean the gutters. After all – he doesn’t have any chores in the single bedroom bachelor pad with the microwave and plastic cutlery he got out of the marriage…

So simply be realistic:
No – we won’t afford to keep the house. We will both need to relocate.
No – we can’t afford both cars.
Yes – the loan on this car has to be put in your/my name so you/I won’t be driving it after that.
No – we won’t share house for the kids. I plan on getting on with life and my next partner won’t want to live with my ex.

Get it? Look around you. Probably know more than one person that’s divorced. How many of them are in intense contact with the ex? A good co-parenting relationship… that’s it. You two won’t be mixing with the same social groups, your friends will divide themselves appropriately and within a year you two will meet at birthdays and school events.
When she talks about being “friends” then be realistic to her: Nice picture but how many divorced people do YOU know that are “friends”? We will be co-parents but if this ends in divorce Mr. a365 plans on emotionally detaching from this marriage and creating a new life.

Keep up with the exercise. Often then shortly after separation people tend to start dating and all that stuff. Keep away from that – you two are still married and there is still hope. Just focus on you, your kids, your work…

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi a365

I can relate to your situation. My WS had a same sex affair.

Having just read all the posts,sadly there is only one thing I can say;

I think you are being played.

Living separately - just an excuse to carry on the affair.

You are controlling - an excuse to make you the bad guy

the planted 1000 texts - a lie to cover up her tracks

wear the wedding rings/committed to each over - you are either plan B if the affair doesn't work or it is her way of holding onto the picture of family and kids that you can not in most cases have with a same sex partner.

need privacy - we all should to live our lives as an open book. There no such thing as privacy in a marriage

I have had all these excuses.

Ask yourself deep down, am I right?

By all means disagree with me.

[This message edited by Snowy at 10:04 PM, October 7th (Monday)]

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Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again, thank you all

More details:
I did not want the separation, she did. She stated I was smothering and she needed time apart to work on us individually. She signed a year lease and is living in a townhome ~1/2 mile away.

I get it – I could very well be playing the fool. She could be pursing another relationship and I am simply waiting in the wings as back up. This is what is bothering me about all of that: We are still in counseling. I still love her, She is still the mother of my children, we are still married, and she has denied that she is cheating stating she isn’t interested (no emotions left).

I do believe she was sexting and she flat out lied about that topic. I do not know the reason(s) she lied, but I am sure it has something to do with not being the bad guy and her minimization to the fact that she was doing it i.e., it was nothing but ‘playing’ so why own it? The woman is 1000s of miles away, married, and where would it go anyway? Etc…

I have no delusions about the divorce – we will not be friends but we will co-parent. It is a F-ed up solution but better than any other alterative. I get it, but I am not quite sure she does. Her family tends to go through multiple marriages and mixed families are the norm (his/hers/ours).

I am working hard to maintain a façade of contentment. I keep telling myself that she knows what I want and she needs to sort things out for herself. I remain hopeful that things will work out. I also know hope isn’t the solution. She needs to figure things out. I need to figure things out. We need to do it in a timely manner – the hanging on and waiting is the most damaging,

So, I am continuing to wait. I am not dating, I am not looking. I am in counseling, she in counseling, and we both go to counseling together. I need to become more patent and allow things to run their course.

Here is a confusing topic: We still do things as a family. We will take a Sunday morning and spend it together doing family stuff. I don’t know what that means if anything but I take it when I can. I love time with my kids and I would never deny them time with me if offered.

So… Again, where do I go from here? I am waiting, it is very painful, and I hurt for my kids. I keep hoping she wakes up, realizes she screwed up, and comes home. Who knows, right? At some point, I need to push the issue, but when is that? Months?

Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
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Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree you are showing patience but I interpret that as passive behavior; waiting for things to happen as opposed to controlling and defining your own passage through life.

Your wife is probably pursuing an affair, but the important issue is the lack of value she places on you and the marriage. If it wasn't for the kids she would be long gone. She plainly has no love left for you and can't even tolerate living in the same house.

You see the kids 50% of the time? so you are apart from your family? Might as well be divorced as being forced to endure this separation.

One suggestion; give it until Xmas then force the issue. Either she comes home or you file. Absence doesn't necessarily make the heart grow fonder and if she is happy living away from you now, then she could be when the year long lease runs out. All you are doing is wasting your life waiting for her.

Right now she is calling all the shots while complaining about your controlling behavior! She may be trying to define her sexuality and how to proceed with her sexual future, but she's also wasting your time. That shouldn't be tolerated.

As for your assertion that she needs to realize that she screwed up and return home that is just naive thinking. If you get her back it won't be achieved by sitting on your ass and passively waiting. Set boundaries and limits and send a message that you will not step beyond them.

Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
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Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few further points. This separation obviously is distressing for the children, which makes me think that if your WW is prepared to put the kids through this, there has to be some other strong reason other than time away from you.

If she is exploring her sexuality, then she would need to experience both male and female 'encounters' to help her define her ultimate preference. After all, from her way of thinking, it could just be you that she has developed an aversion to and not other guys. The lesbian lover, a thousand miles away, is a diversion to 'prove' she isn't screwing around. All that fake, planted sexting focusses your attention on this far away, inaccessible lover and not on some new partners that she may be engaged with. At least if you suspect that she may be seeing other partners, while you have the kids for example, then this is something you can investigate.

All the more reason to end this separation soon. Time away from each other is not going to mend your marriage and will permit further cheating.

[This message edited by OK now at 9:28 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]

Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
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Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A YEARS lease and you have a plan to sit down and discuss the future and evaluate the results of the separation in two months… Doesn’t add up to indicate your wife is seeing this separation as a temporary solution…
Look – sometimes we need to read and see more than what is being said to understand what’s going on. Right now your wife is slapping your cheek with her left hand while reaching out with her right to shake your hand. All you notice is the gesture that you are hoping for.

Does your wife have a tendency to avoid difficult confrontations or resolutions?
Does she have a tendency to be dreamy and/or unrealistic?

Could it be that she’s avoiding facing her sexuality?
Could it be that she’s avoiding coming out?
Could it be she’s avoiding pulling the trigger on the marriage?

I have this theory that infidelity can become inactive without it dying. Like you say – OW is thousands of miles away so yes, chances of them being together are low. Maybe even she and WW barely communicate… But that’s not really an issue. Your wife is still in infidelity mentality. It’s inactive but still there and it’s destined to resume.
You two are in therapy and have a game-plan of sorts in place. By all means stick to it. Wait these two months before forcing the issue. But your WW 12 month lease tells me already what her reply will be. After 2 months she’ll delay for a couple more. Then some more. Then some more… As long as she gets away with it.

Please note I’m not suggesting you don’t do ANYTHING at all. Use this time to prepare. Get your ducks in a row. Get reality into the picture and be mentally and physically ready to push the issue to resolution at the end of the initial two months.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All we have to go on is what you share with us in writing..
Based on the thoughts and facts that you shared, I would be inclined to think that your WW wants to test the waters with her big toe so to speak..If the waters are too cold to take a full dive, she has you to fall back on..
FTN (Fu^& that noise)
If at all possible I would file..
If one day she gets her head out of her rear and you are still around than it will be up to you if you want her back in your life in some way..

Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

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Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a saying on here "sometimes you have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it."

I think you are being way too nice and you can't nice her back.

She moved out? Signed a year lease? Where do the kids live now? With you or with her?

You don't deserve this. Are you in IC? If not, I would suggest you find someone for you. Just you. You deserve more. Hugs to you.

Me: BS 39
Him: WH 41
2 Kids
D-Day: 2/3/13
Broke NC 3/14
Very skeptically in R for now...

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Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I echo the advice about eating, exercising and having a healthy distraction as an outlet..

I need to follow my own advice better..

But you know what is the top blues buster for me?

It is having access to some kind of a social life....A companion, somebody who lives close by who wants your company.. Somebody who will call you on the spur of the moment and often and say "Hey, lets go for a run or a coffee" Somebody who you feel comfortable doing the same.

I think that having small pleasurable moments to look forward to get us through the tough spots... Having companionship with people who like us, care about us, support us will do a lot to help us lose the fear of making difficult decisions that we need to make..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:04 AM, October 8th (Tuesday)]

Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

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Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Passive behavior? I have been accused of being controlling – the opposite of passive. I have backed off and allowed her time to sort things out. We do have a timeline that we would agree to make a decision by Christmas. I think I need to define what that decision should be – give up or try again.

I agree – if we didn’t have the kids she would be long gone. But I also think I wouldn’t have suffered through as much and would have walked last month. I do have the kids 50% of the time. We are both in an area where no other family is close by so it is just us.

As for filing? We are as far as we can go. This state requires 1 year separation before filing for a divorce. We have a separation agreement which outlines the divorce, assets and custody. Nothing more to do but wait.

My social life: I have made some good friends through this and breathed new life into some old relationships. It is a shame it takes such an event, but it did.

Everyone here seems to think she is cheating – I am feeling the same way. Not physically, but emotional with some lead in on the physical side one day. Part of me wants to simply ‘blow it up’ – dump the truth on everyone including her family. ‘My wife has moved out to pursue a lesbian relationship and she is in complete denial’. I however value some relationship with the mother of my children. I also am not 100% - beyond a reasonable doubt but there is some hope left.

I have an IC, and we have an IC, she has an IC. I thought about going in alone to chat with our IC this week and trying to strategize what we should be getting from the sessions. I feel we doing nothing but wasting time.

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Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex had gay affairs. I also "protected him" for a long time...."for the kids" and "for his job". I told no one the real reason we separated. It was one of the worst decisions I made, because I was programmed to protect him.

It was a relief when I finally realized it was no longer my job to protect him. Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. It took a while for me to be able to do that, but eventually it became easier.

From the outside, it sounds like she is getting everything she wants, and you are getting nothing. You are waiting for her, and that is the worst place to be in. She is controlling everything. YOU need to think about making a decision. What is the line? My line was if he cheated again..which he did...and I left and never looked back. You don't know if that is happening because you are living separate. She is setting up the "We TRIED, but we just weren't getting along....".

We are all telling you this because we've played the "game" too. I went through 9 months of false R. He made about a 50% effort in best. He wouldn't come on SI, he would sit in counseling and say, "I'm great! I don't need to look around my past!", he didn't want to give me his phone passwords and it got to be "why can't you just get OVER this??".

I felt like *I* couldn't be myself for fear of what he would do. Just like she is now telling you. You can't do what feels natural to YOU because you are too scared to lose her. That, is crap. It just is. It made me feel more terrible that he couldn't handle my questions and anger, he wanted to "rug sweep" and not talk about it. If I brought it up, then he would huff and puff and stomp around and just tell me to "get over it".

I just see a lot of that in your posts. She is controlling everything, and that is not good. She DID cheat, you HAVE the proof. Emotional or not, it is cheating.

To me, if you come on SI and ask for advice, you know something isn't right.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings

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Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sounds as if you have a good game plan. Since you have to endure a year of separation before filing for divorce, you can better prepare yourself for a possible future without her.

I would reopen old friendships, male and female, and build a social life for yourself. She has forced you into partial isolation; it would serve her right if you moved on and didn't wish to reconcile after the 1 year separation. That would be my objective. She is essentially refusing to work on the marriage and letting it die of neglect.

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Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, October 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is something I wish to pick up on.

[quote]I get it – I could very well be playing the fool.[/quote]

This you are not.

You are simply a nice guy trying his best to understand and handle a f***** s***** situation.

We have all been there.

Don't beat yourself up. You didn't create the situation.

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Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again everyone, Thank you.

You have all been there and you can see what is being played out.
I believe I am plan B
I believe she is very confused

I would like to have a very frank and realistic conversation about this topic but I know it will be met with lies and great resistance

So… What to do?
Option 1: Cut it off, walk away, and never look back
Option 2: Draw some clear lines, clear dates, discuss expectations, and honor them when/if they come
Option 3: Pretend that it isn’t happening (or believe my wife that it isn’t happening)

I like Option 2:
We have a separation agreement so the divorce will happen in a little less than a year – all details are clear, defined, and agreed upon. So if we do nothing, then we will have what we have now – it will just become official.

I want to have a conversation to discuss:
1. Does she want to be married anymore
2. If so, does she want to be married to me
If 1 and 2 are yes, then we start there
3. What does she need to see in order to resume our lives as Man/Wife
4. At what point do we agree is a fair time to see those things
5. What would our future relationship look like?

I am trying not to push too hard since she is confused, but I need her to make some decisions or at least make a commitment to make them. It’s the hanging around, not knowing, is what sucks the most. I don’t want her to leave, but is she is going to go – then go already.

Being played? Maybe, probably, but what if not? I owe it to my kids to try everything until I can no longer go.

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Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think your plan is fine and realistic.
I think you too can benefit from the separation for the next couple of months.
I think this time can give you resolve to see things through, whether that saves your marriage, your sanity or both.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something you may want to think about.

What happens if she wants to go with option 1 or 3?

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Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am with Snowy..Have a plan in place, have friends and emotional support ready and in place, Just be ready for things not to happen the way that you wish or pray for them to happen....

Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

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