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Madhatters Only Thread
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
I have some peace, due to detachment.
The thought of experiencing the holidays having to share our children makes me so sad...
i'm thinking of just settling for good enough.
I hate hate hate this. You all know I'm still living here and detachment was my way to go. We would talk but I wouldn't allow myself to get emotional and talking would be mundane subjects. He got rly rly sick this week. High fever, delirious, couldn't walk without help so of course I backslide and help take care of him because that's what I always did. Now I caught whatever he had on top of my bronchitis, hacking cough, high fever, I have to miss work and I'm scared they will fire me but my boss tells me I cant answer phones like this (the bronchitis had me out for 2 weeks with no voice). I feel miserable and he's better and has helped take care of me but nowhere near how I helped him. Cant say I'm surprised, he tossed food in the oven for me and I had to take it out. He did go to the store and buy me juice, and is getting medicine when I need it so he isn't doing nothing. I don't know I just feel miserable and woe is me so his may also be partly pity party.
Another thing he asker me to move my stuff out of storage and back in the house. He says so I can save on the bill and not have to go back and forth when I need something. I think I had a blank look on my face because he asked me what was wrong. In my head I'm going we broke up, why would moving my stuff back in be a good idea? You think I want to go through having to pack it all again when I leave or when you're ready to date, which is looking to buy much sooner then me.
Okay sry this was partial pity party and partial vent. Not sure I'm looking for an answer but feel better no that its out.
Unagie- so you are a person who helps others out. When they desperately need it. Be proud that you are this way.
Hugs to you! Wish I had more advice.
Just checking in with all of you.
Still in limbo land. 18 months post d day, I think I'm starting to really hate year two. I feel so crazy. Someone posted a pic in general that describes it perfect for me. I want to snuggle with him on the couch eating popcorn and light him on fire and throw him into a tornado at the same time.
What to do.
Doesn't help that he's so amazing and wonderful. Now.
Plain of lethal flatness, party of one please.
918 - that popcorn/fire/tornado picture sums it up for me too.
I can't really know where I am. I only know it's not where I want it to be. Or it *is* where I want to be because apparently I'm still not ready (strong enough) to just walk away...
I got nothing but hugs.
Pass the popcorn...
Any other madhatters who also have mental health issues?
Not sure what to write, I want to write so much and ask for help, but the mental health symptoms are making it challenging right now. So I guess just acknowledging it will have to be enough right now.
Aside from that and other stuff, there were three things that happened with H and other girls this week. I know the answer right now is to detach, and I'm acknowledging that mental health makes it harder sometimes.
1) he said he "tried to do things with those girls but couldn't get their numbers". He thinks there's nothing wrong with this. That he admitted he "tried to do things" was the new part.
2) at my mother's birthday he left to smoke and a young woman got close to his face asking for cigarette and light (he complied). Claimed he tried to non-verbally signal he was married; his repeated language about "all those girls there in their short (ETA: or was it "little"?) black dresses" negates the effect.
3) today, said something about his TA telling him about graduation. First of all, he knows I want to know everything about his classes, and he never mentioned even having a TA… a female one at that. Is that why he didn't want my help on math, after asking me so long ago and planning that I would help him? He yelled at me outright and cursed me out when I offered a couple of months ago… Was it because he has HER now? He could have told me. He's talked about his female teacher, never about the TA (and his first real love affair back in the day was with a married TA; he was 19. Plus he used to hit on some of the counselors from our programs)... So what else hasn't he said?
I know the drill. Detach. Note to self: "he's single" mindset needs to be employed. Not to mention, he has made it clear that I cannot come to him to talk about these things without facing serious emotional consequences (he brutally cuts me down when I try).
Why do I feel lost?
Maybe now is a time where I know I'm alone, know it's been like this for a long time in terms of having no one to turn to… But it really sucks especially right now, with the goddamn voices. But being alone is important right now, because for my own vulnerability, my boundaries are weakest right now. So it's time to enjoy it sucking to be alone.
Any good comedies to recommend? Maybe a life-planning book?
[This message edited by silverhopes at 1:43 AM, December 13th (Friday)]
this may be TMI but does anyone else feel they HAVE to make love when the other spouse wants it because they GAVE it to someone else at some point in time? I feel like I can never say no. To be clear, it's not bad love-making, but sometimes I feel like he wants to do it just to scratch an itch, not connect emotionally and I can't stand that.
Silver - hugs to you. It sucks when you can't share and feel at least some empathy from your partner. I'm in some sort of something right now and formulating words is tough. Just wanted to let you know that I'm listening.
Comedies? if you have Netflix streaming 3 seasons of this is online.
* The Vicar of Dibley (TV show). Quirky silly humor set in small town England (sort of a more comedic Northern Exposure). 30 minute episodes so easy to jump in and out of. Watch through the credits of each episode for a joke. (And if you don't have Netflix then most episodes can be found on YouTube - most though in 5 minute increments. Just search for "Vicar of Dibley Season 1"
Rachelc - sorry I can't chime in on this one.
I wish a good weekend for all of us.
[This message edited by JustAShadow at 3:15 PM, December 13th (Friday)]
Thank you JAS. I will check out the Vicar of Dibley. I could use some laughter.
I just casually asked, "So your class finally got a TA?" He mentions that there has already been a TA, sometimes two. But won't say anything else about them/her. Love the way he lies. We had a serious conversation at the beginning of his classes a year and a half ago, and I wanted to know who was in them and if he noticed any of them. He only mentioned the teacher and a bunch of students he didn't pay attention to. Repeatedly, over the past year and a half, he's reassured me he has no designs on the teacher (even though I didn't ask after the first month). Never mentioned having a TA. Pretty big lie, considering his history. And she's a girl? No wonder. I am feeling so upset right now.
Sorry, rachelc, I wish I had advice.
Damn it. It just keeps getting better. I asked more questions about the TA. One thing I've noticed: whenever Mr. Silver has a LACK of detail about someone, it usually means he's had inappropriate conversations with them minimum and tried (or succeeded) in getting together with them on the other end. It was that way for all the OWs. Guess who he was being as vague about as possible just now? That's right. The TA. When I asked questions, I said "he" just to test him. He didn't correct me. Then I outright asked again if she were a she, and he said she was. Then he tried to change the subject and mentioned how crazy it is that everyone who works at the school are girls. He has all sorts of details about how short the receptionist lady is, or the way the teacher's eye wanders, and yet he couldn't talk about the TA. His tone even changed when he was answering questions about her. It got flatter, the way it always does when I'm asking him something uncomfortable.
I am so angry.
I have felt so uncomfortable the last several months where he asked me if he looked nice before going to class two times a week. I saw all the effort he put into it, and also the way he was less interested in sex on those days, and I wondered who he was trying to impress. But tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Tried to convince myself that he was just dressing to feel good about himself. I asked him several times if anyone gave him any compliments, and he always said no (flatly). I think he must be dressing for her. What a fricken asshole. How the hell am I going to get away from him now? I am alone.
[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:38 AM, December 14th (Saturday)]
Been focusing on my clutter problem for the last day. It's taking my thoughts and emotions off Mr. Silver. If I can put all that energy into the clutter instead of into Mr. Silver's choices, then I may one day have cleanliness and order over my things yet! Small steps. It will get easier.
[This message edited by silverhopes at 1:31 PM, December 15th (Sunday)]
How is everyone doing during the holiday season? How are you handling triggers? Sending out warm wishes to all the MadHatters here and away...
Hi Silver - I have had de-cluttering the garage on my mind for quite some time. Unfortunately, I've not gotten beyond the "thinking" stage. Glad you are making strides. I think that it *is* a good thing to do (for so many reasons).
Best wishes to all on this thread (lurkers and posters) that we make it through the holiday season unscathed.
I'm not one for resolutions and such but I'll be very happy to say good riddance to 2013. Hoping for a better 2014 (or at least a better *me* in 2014!)
Hello, all -
I'm new and apparently, I'm a "Madhatter" (I haven't found the origin of this term here, but I guess it applies to me). I'm still in the "Just Found Out" phase, having just discovered my wife of 19 years has been having a PA with our daughter's softball coach for the past few months (at least, that's what she admits to).
But, 14 or 15 years ago, I had a PA with a coworker that actually lasted a little longer than my WW's. I can't bring myself to hate my WW, because I lied, cheated and deceived as well.
I keep focusing on why hers is "worse", or at least "different." Then I think I'm just deluding myself to justify what I did. Back then, our sex life was almost non-existent, due to a combination of physical and emotional issues. I tried to be supportive, but I met my OW at a time when it had literally been months since my wife and I had been intimate. She had been dumped by her husband and we both needed reassurance we were attractive and desirable. I broke it off when things with my BW improved and we decided to try to start a family.
This current A, though, takes place when we have a 10-year-old daughter, and if our sex life is unsatisfying, it's entirely because she has once again withdrawn from me. I've stopped trying to initiate intimacy so much, (because one can only get sexually rejected a few thousand times before you get the message!)but have never stopped expressing my desire for my beautiful wife. She, however, got what she needed outside the marriage.
Am I just deluding myself? Is an A just an A? Or is there an actual difference between what we did: I sought sexual satisfaction outside of a cold, sexless marriage and she spurned a willing partner to have the excitement and novelty of an A?
Hello, and welcome, hikingwithkoda.
A "madhatter" as it is referred to on this site is someone who has worn both hats within their current relationship: the betrayed and the wayward.
Affairs all have some commonalities. For one, in order for a person to have an A, they choose to. It's not because of the current state of the marriage or relationship. If things are not going well for either or both parties, counseling can be sought, or the couple can split up. An A is an active breaking of a commitment with another person.
That being said, you and your wife both have some work to do. First one is trying to dig for root causes for the affair. What made you decide to do that? That's a question your wife should be digging for as well. The flip side of the coin is that you are both going to be hurting for same and for different reasons. You both had A's, but they had different aspects to them, etc.
It's a complicated thing. I hope you stick around, because there are a lot of folks here with really good advice. I'd also recommend "The Healing Library" in the upper left hand corner of the page to help you get started.
Are either of you in individual or marriage counseling? That can be of great help.
There are plenty of books suggested in The Healing Library, one of them being "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, another being "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. Both great books to help you get started.
Keep posting and reading here. I'm really sorry for the circumstances that brought you here, but I'm glad you came to the right place.
Begrudgingly trudging back to mh.
Hope for a better year.
I hate that lump in the throat i get when i think of her now.
I know i throw stuff out there haphazardly, so trollish.
But it seems to help me to see u all.
Im reading, and pulling the same load.
Rainbows and unicorns farting candy hearts to all.
Hey, EH! Good to see you. Hope you are hanging in there.
Thank u los, just feeling crappy today. Only saw the kids whej relatives brought them. Two whole days. Yay.
Good thing though, we r on the divorce road for sure.
Welcome hikingwithkoda. I'm sorry that you find yourself here but glad that you have found us. SI is full of great advice and supportive people (even if that support needs to be a knock on the head with a friendly 2 x 4).
I'm going to reiterate a lot of what Losfer has already said (because it's good and sometimes we need to read things more than once to have them sink in).
Each A is the same and each A is different. It's often recommended that you and your W don't get into comparing A's (in your IRL conversations or in the conversations you have with yourself). The round robin of, "Well I least *I* didn't do XYZ" can just keep going back and forth and gets you nowhere. You chose to have an A and it affected your wife. Your wife chose to have an A and it is affecting you. The fact that you had an A first does NOT give her a "pass" to have her A now.
Being lied to and deceived hurts. The fact that we, as madhatters, have been both the deceiver and the deceived doesn't make any of this easier. It only makes the unraveling of the why's & how's & what now's more complicated (in an already complicated situation).
You don't say how you and your W got over/through your A? Was there marriage and/or individual counseling (MC / IC)? Did the both of you "work" through it or just rugsweep? (rugsweep: the A is over, we're together, let's just forget this whole thing happened).
IF you rugswept, I'd make a strong recommendation to NOT do that this time. I say that as one who has rugswept 3 times - my H wants to rugsweep a 4th time and I'm trying to get him to NOT rugsweep a 4th time. One reason he wants to rugsweep (besides the standard reasons...) is that we rugswept both of my affairs so why should he be "punished" by not getting to rugsweep this one? (see the round robin there? And how it leads nowhere?)
You do have choices - and you don't have to choose right now (if you don't want to).
Read, read, read (Healing Library, General, Wayward, and go back to the beginning of this thread - or a previous one. for us MH's there's good info in each area).
EH - I'm glad you popped in to give an update. I hope that 2014 is a much better year for you. I'm sorry that you say you are on the road to D but am glad that you say you are feeling some relief. This is certainly draining stuff.