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User Topic: Madhatters Only Thread
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, March 2nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope silver and her man r ok...
No answer to pm yet...

Posts: 107 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:51 AM, March 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you both so much. A VAR is a great idea, in case he has another outburst. He stayed in another room for most of the night on Friday. His main complaint was that he thinks I'm whispering under my breath - he gets paranoid sometimes (I think they might need to adjust his meds, but that's up to his caseworker). I've been trying not to talk so much - I wonder, is this a habit I have, and I need to be more mindful? Do I somehow talk under my breath without thinking about it now? If so, then it's a habit I need to change so I won't upset him anymore. I told him I would be mindful but wished he would talk calmly about what's bothering him before his anger bursts out. He's been angry yesterday night and tonight, but hasn't taken it out on me. But I keep smelling alcohol on his breath. I think he said something about whiskey a few nights ago, but I haven't seen the bottles - but he's still going out to smoke for longer periods, which he doesn't do when it's only cigarettes. He didn't used to drink every night. I think he's using alcohol in the meantime instead of pot. Less expensive, but the effect it has…?

So the plan is to wait another month and see if it gets better, identify his triggers and try very hard not to aggravate him, and to make sure he eats enough and sleeps by a certain hour.

I will support him as best I can. But my biggest focus needs to be on Lil Silver. Our son is #1.

Take care you all.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, March 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just checking in on you, Silver. How are things going? Been thinking of you and your son.

Posts: 6974 | Registered: Dec 2010
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, March 11th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had a long post here and just realized I was breaking my New Year's Resolution of not complaining. More concise update: my husband has quit smoking pot, but he had resumed drinking, almost nightly, and his usual cigarettes. Not sure what he's going to do next. I am working on preparing Lil Silver for preschool. Got some good goals in mind.

How are you all doing?

[This message edited by silverhopes at 5:51 PM, March 12th (Wednesday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
LosferWords
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Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, March 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Silver!

It's not complaining, it's 'discussing'.

Although I do understand the whole resolution thing, and completely respect that.

I guess the main things I can suggest are to keep an eye out first for anyone's safety being compromised with his drinking: your son's, yours, his, or anyone else. Second to that, keeping an eye out for any codependent type behaviors... planning activities around his drinking, being expected to act a certain way while he's drinking, etc.

Things are going pretty well here. We've had a couple of big fights this year, which were pretty discouraging at times, but we've worked our way through those issues for the most part.

My son turned 10 years old last month, which makes me feel really old, and makes me realize how quickly time goes by.

That's really exciting about Lil Silver going into preschool! My son really enjoyed his time at his preschool. I hope yours does, too!

Great to hear from you.

Hope everyone is doing well!


Posts: 6974 | Registered: Dec 2010
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, March 14th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had a long post here and just realized I was breaking my New Year's Resolution of not complaining.
I read it before you yanked it....so there!
More concise update: my husband has quit smoking pot, but he had resumed drinking, almost nightly, and his usual cigarettes. Not sure what he's going to do next.
This would worry me, honestly. Alcohol was an issue of my wife's pre- and during- the affair, and it's a nasty trigger if she even seems so much as buzzed.

It's even worse, because part of the reason she felt disconnected from the marriage and myself was because I was essentially 180'ing her due to the booze. She's not totally wrong, I was detached from her....I wasn't mean, but I was focused on making the healthiest choices for myself and my son at the time....but for the abuser on the other side of the 180, I can see how it'd appear that your spouse doesn't care about you anymore, you know? Funnily enough, I was the happiest and healthiest I had been in quite some time prior to the 2 or so months before DDAY, when her behavior went off the charts crazy. After DDAY, I kind of snapped back to those codependent behaviors for a little bit, because they feel very natural for me....it's like my fallback position, you know? Logically I know that detaching was the right thing to do due to the drinking, but something nags the back of my brain saying, "Well, maybe if you weren't so distant she wouldn't have...."

Stupid brain.

being expected to act a certain way while he's drinking, etc.
This. All day.

My son turned 10 years old last month, which makes me feel really old, and makes me realize how quickly time goes by.

That's really exciting about Lil Silver going into preschool! My son really enjoyed his time at his preschool. I hope yours does, too!

I have an almost 7-year old finishing up first grade...looks like we all have kids a few years apart. Nice to see....there are a lot of members on here with grown kids, and there are some things that are more difficult to navigate having pre-adolescents in the house.


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2064 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, March 14th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Losfer and Ascendant,

Good advice, thank you. I've been doing the eggshell dance lately so your points about codependent behavior are absolutely true. I'm going to read "Codependent No More" (it's sitting in front of me now) and see if I can practice some better skills.

She's not totally wrong, I was detached from her....I wasn't mean, but I was focused on making the healthiest choices for myself and my son at the time....but for the abuser on the other side of the 180, I can see how it'd appear that your spouse doesn't care about you anymore, you know?

Exactly this… Ideally in a family everyone looks out for each others' safety, both emotionally and physically. But when a person gets addicted to substances, they're not taking care of their own health and then they become careless with their family's health as well. And it's hard to agree on healthier behaviors, especially when they don't want to talk about the drugs (pot), alcohol, or cigarettes (which worsens my migraines sometimes). My husband says it's his business, and maybe he's right. But then he accuses me of playing games if I gather up my son to leave the room in response to his behavior. I thought leaving the room was a healthy alternative to fighting, but maybe there's a new skill I need to learn that's not fighting but not leaving either. I don't want to make him feel abandoned.

Was that complaining? I want to learn how to communicate better and discuss instead of complain

Things are going pretty well here. We've had a couple of big fights this year, which were pretty discouraging at times, but we've worked our way through those issues for the most part.

I'm sorry to hear about the fights. When you all have fights, does it set you guys back in terms of affair-related matters, or is it easier to get back on track together? Are there still things that are hard for you to talk about?

My son turned 10 years old last month, which makes me feel really old, and makes me realize how quickly time goes by.

Congratulations! Happy Belated Birthday to your son!

I have an almost 7-year old finishing up first grade...looks like we all have kids a few years apart. Nice to see....there are a lot of members on here with grown kids, and there are some things that are more difficult to navigate having pre-adolescents in the house.

True, these are such important years for them. These are the years where anything we went through as kids, we try to give them better, only we have a limited delicate time to make the best impression. Here's to all the folks on this site with little ones in the home

Shout out to EH! Your knowledge gave me the right things to say to my H and the right encouragement to get him through the first 28 days. He no longer keeps track of how many days he's been off the pot and no longer expresses a desire to smoke it. Thank you for all your good advice; it worked! Right now he's kinda in denial about some of his stuff, but if he ever opens up to support, I will encourage him to talk to you. How is everything going for you and your kids?

[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:56 PM, March 14th (Friday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:09 AM, March 15th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I definitely know I'm codependent if I spend my spare time wondering how to be a perfect wife and how to be his dream girl so he won't go cheating on my again and feeling like if I cannot be his dream girl then I deserve it. I still feel like I deprived him somehow because of how much more "alive" he seemed with the OWs. If he wanted me during those times, he would have been doing those things with me instead of them. So I'm the one who feels unworthy, after all this time. I keep thinking he was never in love with me and isn't now, and I'm responsible for that for not being the right person. The only person I'm not unworthy of is my son: it's the converse, I cannot afford to not be up to standards with him. He's the light in my world and the very best person I know, and knowing I'm the one who is responsible for making sure he grows up healthy? Never felt so READY to do the job RIGHT for him!!


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, March 17th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going to read "Codependent No More" (it's sitting in front of me now) and see if I can practice some better skills.

That is a great book. I'd recommend it to almost anyone. I had a lot of notes and highlights in that sucker! I hope you get as much out of it as I did.

I thought leaving the room was a healthy alternative to fighting, but maybe there's a new skill I need to learn that's not fighting but not leaving either. I don't want to make him feel abandoned.

This is a fine line with a child in the house. There are some things you just don't want your children to see or hear. On the other hand, if you are having a healthy argument, then I think it is beneficial to your child to see to adults debate and come to a healthy conclusion.

Was that complaining? I want to learn how to communicate better and discuss instead of complain

I didn't view that as complaining at all. It sounds like you still have some concerns about your relationship and your husband's behavior, and I feel you are talking about them openly and anonymously here without compromising or assassinating his character in any way. IMHO, of course.

I'm sorry to hear about the fights. When you all have fights, does it set you guys back in terms of affair-related matters, or is it easier to get back on track together? Are there still things that are hard for you to talk about?

Thanks, Silver. It all depends on the type of fight it is, and how far it escalates. If I feel my wife is being irrational and abusive, then I feel it sets me back quite a ways. It takes longer and longer to recover from those types of fights, because I question what I am working so hard for. When we are fighting over regular things that couples tend to fight about, it is usually over really quickly, we come to a mutually reasonable agreement, and I feel like that process actually brings us close together. To answer your other question, there are still a few affair and paternity-related things that are difficult for me to talk about.

Congratulations! Happy Belated Birthday to your son!

Thank you! It is scary how quickly it goes by, though. Like I was telling my dad, I keep looking for the pause button, but somebody has it stuck on fast forward.

Here's to all the folks on this site with little ones in the home

I'll second that!

Ascendant - When I first started going through this, my son was right around the same age as yours. D-day #1 was about four months shy of his 7th birthday.

I definitely know I'm codependent if I spend my spare time wondering how to be a perfect wife and how to be his dream girl so he won't go cheating on my again and feeling like if I cannot be his dream girl then I deserve it.

I think the key here is perhaps detaching your self worth from him, and maybe placing it on yourself. Be your own dream girl! I know it is easier said than done. I am still working on self worth issues as well. I think a lot of us here do struggle with that from time to time. You are talking about deserving the cheating, which makes me sad. There are many things that you do deserve... being treated lovingly and respectfully, just to start.

The only person I'm not unworthy of is my son: it's the converse, I cannot afford to not be up to standards with him. He's the light in my world and the very best person I know, and knowing I'm the one who is responsible for making sure he grows up healthy? Never felt so READY to do the job RIGHT for him!!

Even though I don't agree with you thinking your son being the only you are not unworthy of, I do completely agree that you are totally worthy of him! When you talk about him, your love and deep feelings of care and protectiveness of him shine through in your words. I'm glad you are there for him to be such a positive role model, and such a great mother!

Hope everyone is doing well and having a great St. Patrick's Day!


Posts: 6974 | Registered: Dec 2010
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, March 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It all depends on the type of fight it is, and how far it escalates. If I feel my wife is being irrational and abusive, then I feel it sets me back quite a ways. It takes longer and longer to recover from those types of fights, because I question what I am working so hard for. When we are fighting over regular things that couples tend to fight about, it is usually over really quickly, we come to a mutually reasonable agreement, and I feel like that process actually brings us close together. To answer your other question, there are still a few affair and paternity-related things that are difficult for me to talk about.

Abusive… that word always means a red flag to me. When you are feeling abused, does she deny it (do you two disagree on what's abusive so it's harder for you to be heard)? Is it something you guys have talked about? That's a serious matter, I think. If any one partner feels abused, then they can't feel safe in their relationship. And I know that's why we're all here - but if you're feeling abused, that's important to address and nip in the bud. Is it under certain circumstances where it seems to come up, or is it a general thing?

Yeah, this healing is a life-long deal, isn't it? Hope it'll gradually get easier for you to talk about the harder stuff and find your voice. Sometimes that's the hardest part, because there is so much pain to acknowledge.

This is a fine line with a child in the house. There are some things you just don't want your children to see or hear. On the other hand, if you are having a healthy argument, then I think it is beneficial to your child to see to adults debate and come to a healthy conclusion.

Definitely agree. In recent cases, it hasn't been a healthy argument unfortunately. I wish they were, because it's important that Lil Silver learn those healthy skills. But the arguments seem to differ from healthy ones in that healthy arguments have the undercurrent of respect, but the ones we've been having have one of disrespect. The other day Mr. Silver had an episode, scared me pretty bad, so I responded by keeping calm and trying to reality-test with him. He always apologizes the next morning, but in the moment his anger is terrifying. He kicked a shelf pretty hard and the slamming things around is something I've asked him to stop doing. He was going pretty well, so when he kicked the shelf - even more eggshells. Don't feel that's safe to be around. I didn't rugsweep, called attention to it instead. Fortunately he left the room on his own. It's been a couple of nights. I'm trying to come up with a good plan for the next time I sense either of us escalating. I know there are a lot of things on his plate that's making it difficult as well, and it was the wrong time for me to bring up certain subjects. I think my questioning him about some A-related things a few nights ago might have triggered him, and he wanted to retaliate. It's something he's always done, even before I became a MHer in our relationship.

For now, we need to focus on the things he's remembering from his childhood and early adulthood, the abuse, the abandonment, his feelings around all of it, all the stuff around meeting his family again and mourning his parents, the new addiction he has (alcohol), and our son obviously. To be honest, when he's not drinking, he's on the phone or texting with his sister (which is good, they're reconnecting, but it's also kinda triggery, but it feels douchey to bring it up), so it feels like Lil Silver and I are on our own more than before - maybe a good thing. Our relationship can and should wait, and he said something to me the other night that made it clear I'm on my own with my issues (the ones around both our infidelities). But for the first time, I truly feel I can handle them myself and go forward without asking him any more about it or looking for any more validation. He made me see that it's something he can never give, and that makes sense.

I think the key here is perhaps detaching your self worth from him, and maybe placing it on yourself. Be your own dream girl!

Sound advice! For a long time I thought 'dream girl' was about what I could be to Mr Silver, but now it's about rediscovering plants and creative writing (and being a mom), that rush from geeking out over all things botany related and writing stories and reading TVtropes, lol. Being your own 'dream girl' / 'dream guy' has to make you feel alive and inside your skin, not someone else, as long as it isn't hurting anyone. That's one thing no one should have to compete on.

Sorry for rambling. Happy return of Spring everyone.

ETA: Goal is to return here once I've read at least one chapter of Codependent No More. Gotta do the work! No excuses.

ETA again: Sorry, came back and clarified a bit more on question about abusive, hadn't worded it right.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 10:39 AM, March 20th (Thursday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
betraydtwice
Member
Member # 38921
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone. Ok so story now....H had EA in 2012-2013. We have been reconciling although to him it is and always was business at usual. No discussion...Nothing ...Struggled from march 2013 til now almost a year to the date. Had huge blowout with H over no discussion and no talking about our relationship in Nov 2013. I told him if he won't talk to me then I need to make other plans. He makes plans for our future and I say nothing....But I keep thinking to myself is that what I want?

I do nothing I seem stuck.

Meanwhile in Nov after the fight I go on a dating site. I get lots of hits but really only talk to men I feel I have a connection with. I start talking to one man fairly soon. We seem to hit it off. We got to know each other and then in Feb the messaging became more sexual. He has been trying to come to me for about 2 months and I keep stalling him. He thinks we are separated.

I'm not separated, but H and I are not connected.
H thinks everything is just fine.
OM thinks we are starting a serious relationship.

I have feelings for both men but a new beginning sounds so great..so fresh...so exciting....such different men and such different lifestyles..........so many new hassles, fuss and muss and love and lust and hate and pity and sorrow....
One life with H safe secure? but i just don't care so much anymore for our relationship...something died. H tries hard but we don't communicate. So what is the point??

The OM comes with hope, promises, passion, growth, but also change, struggle, compromise, uncertainty of future (will it last)...Is he worth it? Should I just go for it and maybe it will be amazing??

HELP

STUPID STUPID ME


Posts: 148 | Registered: Apr 2013
rachelc
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Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not separated, but H and I are not connected.

married is married. You're already cheating on him. Do the next right thing - telling your husband, and breaking it off with this guy. Get into IC to determine why you made this choice and if it's to feel validated and wanted by another man, then find a way to get your self esteem back without hurting yourself or other people.
Or, divorce your husband and live honestly, which requires you to tell the OM you're actually still with your husband. And think about it, if the guy knows you're separated he shouldn't be in a relationship with you either. Red Flags on this part.

Decide how you want to live, clarify your values and if they include honesty and integrity, you already know what to do.

Good luck!


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4886 | Registered: Dec 2010
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 9:00 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betraydtwice...

You have a PM.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197655 | Registered: May 2002
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, March 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Btrayedtwice,

Are you ending the A and coming clean to your H?

One life with H safe secure? but i just don't care so much anymore for our relationship...something died. H tries hard but we don't communicate. So what is the point??

If you choose your M, even for stability alone, there cannot be an OM. If you know you're done with your M, then put your energy into separating and divorcing. Either way, end the A - you're not free to date unless you're single, and you're not single, you know this.

The OM comes with hope, promises, passion, growth, but also change, struggle, compromise, uncertainty of future (will it last)...Is he worth it? Should I just go for it and maybe it will be amazing??

It wouldn't be. The reason why it seems so nice now (hopes, promised, etc), is because it's an escape from something. "Make the well illegal and see how sweet the water tastes" and all that. This affair began within your marriage, at the expense of your marriage and integrity. Can you imagine how much worse it would get as it continued? You'd have to keep lying… It would cost everyone.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, March 22nd (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Read the first chapter of Codependent No More. This is a good book already. It sounded like the woman in the example was looking for her H's behavior to change for her to feel better. At first I denied feeling the same, since I don't look to Mr. Silver to define my happiness - but then started thinking, I give him an awful lot of control over my unhappiness. That's definitely codependent and definitely something to work on.

Thank you all for the book rec/encouragement! Hope everyone is having a safe weekend.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3905 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
tigereyes
♀ Member
Member # 25318
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, March 23rd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do I belong here now or am I being harder on myself than necessary?

My WH had 2 EA's over the last 4 years. Before that, there were multiple "smaller" issues, mainly just lots of disrespect toward me. After his last EA (which was with my best friend) I have been done. We are separated and while I thought about R, I've already gone through a false one of those and he really hasn't changed. For financial reasons, we are going to have to stay married for a while, but there is no relationship between us. He wants to come back, but I don't want him to. I am done, I have been neglected for a long time, and i just don't love him anymore. The months of the fallout after this latest affair killed everything I could have ever felt for him, he was just selfish and only cared about "his pain".

So, I caught up with an old friend from high school. Really, not even an old friend. We went to school together from Kindergarten through the 12th grade but we never really hung out. But we started talking and found out we probably should have been friends before. Turns out, he is a pretty awesome guy.

I am not looking for any sort of relationship obviously, I am still married, although it is literally a paper marriage. I was the only one who remained faithful for 21 years, my H says he never took our vows seriously and he still doesn't think that what he did was "that bad".

So this weekend, he had the kids and I met up with the old friend and we ended up having sex. I have been celibate since H's affair with my friend was discovered so I'll just say I have been a little "frustrated". For the first time in years, I felt desired, appreciated, like someone cared about me.

I am not in love with this guy and he isn't in love with me either, we were very clear that this was a FWB situation. I'm not with my H, but this was the first time I have been with anyone else in 22 years. Should I feel guilty? H has already moved in with another woman even though he still claims he wants to get back together with me, but that isn't going to happen. Knowing we will have to be paper married for a while, is it ok if I start moving on with my life? I feel like I have wasted so many years on this man already and really would just like to live my life now.

Is it considered cheating when the marriage is already dead? Before, I believed the divorce should come first but I never imagined that I would HAVE to stay married for a while.


BW-40
WH-41 2 EA's that I know of, 1 with my "best" friend of 26 years
Married almost 22 years
4 kids - 21, 18, 14, and 11
He filed D 6/11/14
Fighting me for custody

Posts: 113 | Registered: Aug 2009
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, March 23rd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PM for you tigereyes


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37120 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Seasickyetdocked
♀ New Member
Member # 42876
Sad  Posted: 2:22 PM, March 24th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Been lurking forums since last week and when I found this one I felt safe to ask questions here.

Long story not so short I found out less than a month ago my husband was having an EA/PA with an old co-worker for last six months. Gut had had suspicions something wrong but thought he would NEVER do something like this especially since I had out him thru this before. He has always been that perfect husband and great kind, sweet man in everyone's eyes including mine.

I had a EA/PA with an old boyfriend 14 yrs ago. We lived in different states so mostly thru email but contact whenever I went home to visit family. Lived 1000 miles from all family and had a one year old baby. Lonely, disconnected sexually and emotionally from husband, he disconnected as well. Two young kids with a baby and no help and no good examples of healthy family life. Excuses excuses excuses. We fought and cried and then rug swept. Both took 50% marriage blame but I don't know if he knew how sorry I really was since we didnt go to MC. There was NC as soon as A was discovered.

Flash forward five years and second son born. We had a better marriage but both should have been in IC for FOO. lack of sex drive and intimacy let me turn a friendship with male half of our 'couple friends' into an EA though I'm not sure I understood that then. I shared way TMI about grievances and said things in moments of anger, whether at myself or H, with this OP. OP was a cheater so I felt weirdly safe being "myself" or "honest" about all of mine and H's issues. OP turned physical with a kiss which I admittedly liked for the attention but never had even a flirty friendship so was not, so I thought, inviting this. Even though I didn't want more I was cake eating because I felt disgusted and didn't want to go down that road and hurt my H again but also thought it was ok to continue friendship. When H found out he was deeply wounded and as I recently found out, never believed it hadn't gone further physically. Immediate NC that has lasted to this day.

So flash forward again. H goes out of town a couple of times a year for work. This last trip he turned a very inappropriate EA into a PA though I suspect it may have actually become PA when she was here for work in October. We live on different coasts so no worries PA is still happening and swears he wants R and when given the choice sent an "it's over" email the day after dday. I don't call it NC because email lacked any emotion, just one sentence. "I'm sorry but the time has come." Her response "I understand, go work it out"

WTF?! I'm sure anyone here can understand my doubt that it was that easy but disgusted and reassured(?) when he said that they'd discussed the possibility of this happening and if so it would be short and final goodbye. Ugh!

So of course, still reeling and riding the emotional roller-coaster since its still so fresh. Hurt that he refused to come clean on how long the inappropriate EA had really gone on, he said six months. I found an old email 1 1/2 weeks after Dday &first MC session and on our son's tenth bday that lead to finding a chain of sporadic inappropriate emails for eight years.

I question everything now. He found us a MC and we went one week after Dday and have a weekly appt. I went to first IC and he goes to first IC tonight. Sick and hurt and raw and needy and GUILTY. For the first time in years I went into MC ready to talk about everything. Own up to my mistakes. Own up to my anger issues or emotional disconnect issues. Sadly before this I really though we'd come so far in last nine years and had a good, maybe even great marriage. We are great friends, we have better, more intimate and more frequent sex. He's a great dad and works his ass of as I am a SAHM and our kids our amazing and fairly normal and untroubled. My 15 yr old even talks to us about his relationship problems and friends and school, etc. Now I can't stop asking:

"How much of the last few years have been a lie? "
"Is this my fault? Karma? Just desserts?"
"Why couldn't he come to me?"

I've read a million postings and the favorite piece of wisdom is the: own up to your 50% responsible for the marriage troubles, he's 100% responsible for the affair. I fully accept that on my part for my past misdeeds and made sure MC knew of both at the start and apologized again and took responsibility

But it doesn't ease the gaping raw wound inside. After second MC sessions I felt close to suicide(no worries, lived thru two in my lifetime and would never do that to my children or my father, his mother committed suicide). He seems remorseful but obviously still in fog. Still not telling me everything, sometimes I want to hear sometimes I don't. Slight blame shifting in sessions that destroyed me cause I already was feeling guilt and zero self love. Took a few days to even understand that it was blame shifting. Found an email this am that contained no personal or emotional things but still was a kick in the face that it's not 100% NC. They work in same business but not same company and chances are they will see each other or have to email professionally occasionally. This email did not seem work related and was only a few words but didnt seem work related. He took passwords off of iPad and knows I've read email but deletes everything now and even browser history. Phone is a work phone so no access prior to Dday and all evidence erased after. Did find phone with no password for first time this am, it's how I found the email on his work account.

Sorry this is long and rambling and confused. I haven't slept all night and I just feel lost. Thank you for letting me share. Thank you all for sharing your stories. So depressed to see how infrequently they seem to end in D.

Has anyone here been thru this and come out on the R side?

Me-37
H-38
Married 17 yrs next week.
Two sons: 15 & 10


Posts: 2 | Registered: Mar 2014
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, March 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Doing some catching up here on this thread...

Seasickyetdocked - Hello, and welcome to SI! I'm glad you have found some help through reading, and that you have decided to start posting here as well. I am really sorry to hear that you are hurting so much.

How did the IC session with your husband go? In my personal experience, being in a madhatter situation myself, I have found the individual counseling, healing, and work to be the most important.

It sounds like your d-day was very recent, so you will be questioning things for awhile. It's okay to continue to verify your husbands actions. It's also okay and normal for both of you to offer up full transparency at this point in time.

"Is this my fault? Karma? Just desserts?"

Absolutely not. Like you correctly stated, he is 100% responsible for his affair. The only actions that you can own are your own.

Has anyone here been thru this and come out on the R side?

We're still in the process of reconciling. I have a feeling we'll probably come out on the R side. I know of a few couples in madhatter situations who are pretty solidly in R. It can work! There is hope!

The most important thing to focus on healing is yourself first, though. If you can focus on healing yourself, then you will end up better and stronger, despite the outcome of your marriage. If you are both working on yourselves, then you will both be better partners for each other, too.

How have things been going for you this last day or so? Any better luck at sleeping last night?


Posts: 6974 | Registered: Dec 2010
LosferWords
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Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, March 25th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silver,

Read the first chapter of Codependent No More. This is a good book already. It sounded like the woman in the example was looking for her H's behavior to change for her to feel better. At first I denied feeling the same, since I don't look to Mr. Silver to define my happiness - but then started thinking, I give him an awful lot of control over my unhappiness. That's definitely codependent and definitely something to work on.

I could tell just from you reading this first chapter that some of this is maybe hitting home with you. I can really relate to that. Have you continued reading in the book?

For someone who does tend to exhibit codependent behavior, and I am speaking of myself, it can be a tough book to read, but I also think it can be empowering. There were a lot of things I was doing that I had no idea that I was doing until I read this book. Like you said, giving your partner control of your unhappiness, that can be a big one to work on. My wife was once called "the barometer of the family". I think the intent behind that statement was that her mood and disposition could fairly easily and accurately predict the mood and disposition of everyone in the household. Hopefully things have turned around a bit with that.

When you are feeling abused, does she deny it (do you two disagree on what's abusive so it's harder for you to be heard)? Is it something you guys have talked about?

That first question is really interesting about whether we disagree on what's abusive. I think we do disagree on that. We have talked about it. I tell her that she was being abusive towards me, and she denies it. I think part of that may come from some of the abusive behavior she received as a child. Maybe what she redirects towards me isn't as extreme as what she experienced. One thing that she doesn't deny is that she says some really hurtful things towards me when she is angry.

Is it under certain circumstances where it seems to come up, or is it a general thing?

It is almost always under certain circumstances. So it is not a constant thing.

Yeah, this healing is a life-long deal, isn't it? Hope it'll gradually get easier for you to talk about the harder stuff and find your voice. Sometimes that's the hardest part, because there is so much pain to acknowledge.

Yes, it is a lifelong deal. Thanks for the encouragement, support, and understanding, though. Coming out here and discussing things can sure help at times.

I'm trying to come up with a good plan for the next time I sense either of us escalating. I know there are a lot of things on his plate that's making it difficult as well, and it was the wrong time for me to bring up certain subjects. I think my questioning him about some A-related things a few nights ago might have triggered him, and he wanted to retaliate. It's something he's always done, even before I became a MHer in our relationship.

How has that been going the last few days? I think it is important for everyone, regardless of BS, WS, or MH status, to have healthy and enforceable boundaries in their lives. The thing is, in order to enforce those boundaries, you almost have to have a plan in place. It's nearly impossible to determine what you are going to do when things are in the "heat of the moment". Have you had any more discussions about this incident that Mr. Silver had with kicking the shelf? It sounds like it frightened you pretty badly.

Have you had conversations with him about how he would like A-related conversations to be brought up? Perhaps give him a say in that, and then at the same time list out a couple of your boundaries as well?

I know you've mentioned that you feel as if you are going to have to deal with the A-related stuff on your own. I understand where you are coming from, within the context of the other information that you provided... about new things coming to light about his childhood, him reconnecting with his birth family, him dealing with a new addiction. Still, I don't think it's fair to take the A stuff off the table. If it is still causing you any type of discomfort, or even if you still have a strong desire to talk about it, it's still a viable topic of conversation within the relationship.

Sound advice! For a long time I thought 'dream girl' was about what I could be to Mr Silver, but now it's about rediscovering plants and creative writing (and being a mom), that rush from geeking out over all things botany related and writing stories and reading TVtropes, lol. Being your own 'dream girl' / 'dream guy' has to make you feel alive and inside your skin, not someone else, as long as it isn't hurting anyone. That's one thing no one should have to compete on.

That sounds really great! Why not concentrate on those interests and talents of yours? That's awesome.

Sorry for the delay in reply. I was tying up some loose ends before going on vacation last week, and ever since then... well, I've been on vacation.

How has everything else been going?


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