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Madhatters Only Thread

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crushednheartbroken posted 5/15/2017 22:19 PM

There is a book out there called Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. My therapist recommended it to me. It explains a lot why I or a lot of us put up with bad relationships. It's worth a read.

Notmine posted 7/13/2017 12:24 PM

Hi - Can someone tell me what a madhatter is?

onlytime posted 7/13/2017 13:11 PM

@Notmine

A madhatter(MH) is someone who has been both a BS AND a WS in the same relationship.

MrsJohnAdams posted 7/28/2017 15:06 PM

I just found this thread and sadly i guess i belong here.

Just wanted to say hello.

Sadlady14 posted 8/1/2017 00:04 AM

Hi Mrs.JA.
Sorry you are here. Being a MH really sucks but like anything in life, focus on what you can control. Is there something with your current situation that you are struggling with now?

Randy1133 posted 8/10/2017 13:10 PM

I think there should be 2 Madhatters.

A Betrayed Madhatter- Someone that was the one originally betrayed and sought out a revenge affair or revenge ONS in my case. Usually these people are the ones that never would have cheated in normal circumstances. I can related to these people.

A Wayward Madhatter- Someone that was the initial betrayer and whose spouse later betrayed them (likely because of revenge). I can't relate to these people at all.

I guess it doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot. But I really feel weird that I'm allowed to post on Stop Sign threads in the Wayward forum, since my marriage was nuked, reduced to ashes then thrown in the dumpster bin before I sought out a female's company...Granted, the nuking the throwing in the dumpster bin occurred in the span of 2 weeks.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 1:15 PM, August 10th (Thursday)]

Stuckinthesouth posted 8/15/2017 20:40 PM

I'm new here. This thread applies to me though. I did cheat on my W. Multiple times with escorts. She did have an EA with a man she met at school, which turned into a PA. No vaginal sex, just oral on her part. One time and she felt really horrible and broke it off. I think I'm responsible for that. I didn't pay any attention to her, being focused on work, hobbies, and myself in general. My W is very good at using people to get what she wants. She swears she felt nothing for and had no emotional attachment to the AP. She has no contact since Feb of this year and I believe her when she says she has no desire. She is an alcoholic and that fueled her to find somebody who appreciated that she was beautiful. Some days are really good where I don't think about it at all. Other days not so good. My W has suppressed most of her childhood due to traumatic circumstances. So she is good at blocking out and suppressing. She swears she forgives me and is moving on. I don't see how she can. Some days I feel what I did was unforgettable and unforgivable. But at the same time how can I be upset with her for doing what I was already doing before she did what it is she did? Just confused

TearDownTheWall posted 8/22/2017 15:02 PM

Stuckinthesouth, you sound so much like me. Our wives could be twins. I took much of the blame for my W PA. It was a RA after my EA. She is alcoholic also, had much childhood trauma and doesn't deal well with actual feelings.

I understand your pain. All we can do is work on ourselves to become better people at the same time that we are trying to repair what we broke and let our wives know that we do in fact love them. So much work to do, try to remain patient with the changes.

DevastatedDee posted 8/31/2017 15:01 PM

Do any of you Betrayed Madhatters have difficulty truly regretting your RA?

I've felt true empathy for my WH when I've held him as he cried and done all the right things to help him heal from the pain. However, if I'm not dealing with helping him heal at that moment, I can't regret having the ONS.

It's almost as if I couldn't bear to stay or look at myself in the mirror if I hadn't done it. It did something to help regain some dignity and pride. I "bit back".

I know this is not healthy on my part. Maybe I just have too much anger about what he did. Is it just me?

Randy1133 posted 8/31/2017 15:17 PM

Devastated, My only regrets about the Revenge ONS is that I spent $150 and didn't even enjoy it and it gave my XW a chance to play the victim card.

Do I feel bad about it? Not in the least. She was remorseless, in so many words told me it wasn't going to stop, so as far as I was concerned, we were in an open marriage, only I got the telegram way late! So, even though I did it out of Revenge, our marriage was nuked beyond the point of no return by that point.

I did heard someone describe an RA as feeling uncucked and that makes sense. There is an imbalance in a marraige after an Affair, the RA doesn't fully restore the balance but it does have its merits for some atleast.

DevastatedDee posted 8/31/2017 15:26 PM

Uncucked. That makes sense. If there was any benefit to my WH having to feel that pain, it's that it clued him in on why I wasn't just able to "move on" so quickly.

It did me good to be found attractive by an attractive man. My WH cheated with women in their 20s. I'm 44. I got nuthin' on that. I'm completely opposed to cheating, and yet I feel like I needed to for my own psychological health at the time.

I still feel like me feeling this way is wrong.

Randy1133 posted 8/31/2017 15:46 PM

Wrong? Maybe, I don't know. The way I see it, after an affair, all bets are off. Nothing is sacred anymore. I find it humorous when Waywards open up their marriage unbeknownst to you and then once they are found out, want to close it again.

DevastatedDee posted 8/31/2017 15:55 PM

Wrong? Maybe, I don't know. The way I see it, after an affair, all bets are off. Nothing is sacred anymore. I find it humorous when Waywards open up their marriage unbeknownst to you and then once they are found out, want to close it again.

Yeah, I didn't feel so much like I was cheating. The marriage seemed like a joke at that moment. I guess I had been in an open marriage for quite some time and just didn't get to enjoy it until the last second as the door on that got shut.

Funny how that works, yes indeed. Selfish shit for real.

TearDownTheWall posted 8/31/2017 16:01 PM

I was glad to hear you say that Dee. My W has never apologized for her PA, I was starting to wonder if this was ok. Most people here say both A need to be dealt with, separately but that both partners need to admit the wrong and seem remorseful. I have never gotten any of that from my W.

It was just good to hear someone else say what my wife has told me.

DevastatedDee posted 8/31/2017 16:32 PM

I was glad to hear you say that Dee. My W has never apologized for her PA, I was starting to wonder if this was ok. Most people here say both A need to be dealt with, separately but that both partners need to admit the wrong and seem remorseful. I have never gotten any of that from my W.
It was just good to hear someone else say what my wife has told me.

I do struggle with it. I do have real remorse for my husband feeling the pain that I know so well. That I feel true sorrow for his pain and yet wouldn't take back the RA bothers me. It isn't because I enjoy him hurting. It's about my needs, which makes me selfish, which makes me not such a great person. Maybe the anger towards what he did is holding back true regret/remorse. Maybe that's what holds your wife back. The hit to her pride and self-esteem is likely what drove her to have her own RA.

I have apologized to him for it. I've tried to react to his pain the way I want him to react to mine. I think that your wife probably should give you some comfort over it as long as you've done the same for her. Infidelity hurts no matter the circumstances.

TearDownTheWall posted 8/31/2017 17:01 PM

No, she doesn't. I have been almost the perfect model for a WS, notice I said almost, I know I still have and may very well always have work to do. In a year, I have only mentioned it twice, asked her why she hasn't even apologized for it.

She says she's not sorry. Her A killed her, I can see that she hated it, hated what she did to herself, but she has absolutely zero remorse for me. I guess I will try to live with it as is.

FeelinLimbo posted 9/6/2017 08:26 AM

Oh my God I am now in this club.

WS - and now BS. My story is in the wayward's thread and briefly in profile.

There is another woman!!!

I returned home 2 months ago after working abroad for the year where A happened. DDay was nine months ago - I couldn't come back any sooner due to work contract.

And now I am a BS - and I admit it fricken sucks!!

FeelinLimbo posted 9/6/2017 08:30 AM

He text me: I never wanted to be in this situation to start with so think about that for a bit.


.... I accept my affair led to this - but why not tell me what was going on! I told him I wanted R, have been going to weekly IC sessions since I returned home.....

[This message edited by FeelinLimbo at 8:30 AM, September 6th (Wednesday)]

hurtpenguin posted 9/14/2017 13:18 PM

Well after months of MC, IC, medication and the rollercoaster I was unwillingly strapped into I find myself a part of another club. One I made the decision to join, for better or worse.

I posted my full story in my profile and this is the original thread from JFO:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=604089&AP=1&HL=58446

An update: We are currently 4 weeks away from our wedding date. Most all preparations are finished. I just had my bachelor party last weekend. It has been up and down to say the least, but I had been toying with the idea of an RA from D-Day. I never thought I would go through with it (despite actively joining and participating dating sites/apps, trolling craiglist and escort sites), but I finally did.

I currently have mixed feelings about everything. On the one hand, I feel somewhat righted, as if things have now balanced out in my relationship. On the other hand, I don't know where to go from here. My WW/BW does not know, (although I expect she is just waiting for me to have an RA based on conversations with her and her overall demeanor) and I don't know if I should tell her and end things, tell her and NOT end things, just end things altogether, or continue on in the RA without telling her.

My AP is a very attractive single woman, who herself just exited a long term relationship. She has quickly grown fond of me and is someone who I share a lot in common with. She also has young children, and is unaware of my current relationship status. As of now, I have walled myself in to prevent an EA, but fear continuing with the PA will ultimately lead to the EA.

I have never cheated in a committed relationship, until now. Talking with my therapist, we came to the conclusion that my personality type would most likely be unable to fully begin healing until I was able to get some sense of justice. I don't know what is worse, having involved myself with my AP in a PA, or feeling better about my overall situation having done so. Any advice is welcome.

chargeon34 posted 9/25/2017 18:50 PM

Hello Iím looking for a place to figure out what kind of situation I am in and I think this is it. My girlfriend and I had been best friends for nearly 6 years and I had been dating for over 3 years. We had our issues but always figured it out. We planned a future together and considered each other meant to be.

I went on a trip with my guy friends and while away I used Tinder/Bumble and chatted with other women. I didnít intend to ever do anything physical. But one night on the trip I had a random encounter with a girl at a bar and ended up buying her a drink, dancing and kissing her. Just a kiss and then she left. I also made plans to meet up with her the next day but didnít follow through. I then lied to my girlfriend about it all, hid it, and tried to ignore it.
DDay was about a month ago and I trickle truthed her for a few days but eventually came clean. She said that we were officially broken up but I insisted upon trying to make it work. Over the past months we have tried to spend time together, had sex a few times, and talked. Its ranged from love, somewhat feeling normal, to crying, anger, hate, every emotion possible basically.
I also knew that she had gone on a few dates with a certain guy she met on bumble. It bothered me but I tried to understand and tell her it was okay because I knew what I did hurt her and she needed to figure out what she wanted.

Well, I just found out she has been sleeping with him. In between sleeping with him she saw me, slept with me, told me she loved me and that she didnít want me to hurt. I responded by wanting to know details but I was also adamant that I told her it was okay. That I would forgive her. But she says she doesnít want my forgiveness that she isnít sorry. Now I have to somehow deal with this pain and these feelings but I am not allowed to get mad, or be hurt because I was the one who broke up the relationship. But I have to deal with the embarrassment of calling my doctor for an STD test, not being able to vent because I donít want others to feel ill towards her, and now I feel like sex is lost to me. She was the only one I was ever with and wanted to be with.

Curious if others who were wayward or faithful have experience a one upping so to speak like this, how it was handled, what was done, how you both went forward.

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