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User Topic: The OW is not the problem!
Lucky
♀ Member
Member # 6864
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Do you actually have a freaking point in this, because all the nonsensical babbling does distract...


♥ WINE - the other fruit juice! ♥


Posts: 36162 | Registered: Apr 2005
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 1:30 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After years of being here.... so many WS's are in a terrible emotional state at the start of an affair.

Not sure that I agree with this.....


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7705 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Bobbi_sue
♀ Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 1:48 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is no one else sick of the scorn,that the OW gets, while the WH get's the "gift of reconciliation".
Ick! They both did the exact same thing to you. They are both the same.
I find it extremely rare anyone here has ever blamed only the OW while their WH gets the "gift of reconciliation."

I guess I am more sick of people lumping all cheaters together, saying they are "the same" whether they were the WS or the AP.

In fact, every case is different.

I might have been somewhat inclined to agree at one time in my life. At least I will say I did not understand a few women I have known in real life before ever coming to this forum, who were devestated that their spouse left them for an OW, and they seemed to be of the view if the OW would just bow out of the picture, life would be okay again.

It has been 7 years for me and my H and I have R'ed. I still absolutely despise the whore and do blame her for at least 50% of what happened. Yes, that filthy vile peice of garbage pursued my H at the lowest times of his life, following the deaths of his mother and daughter.

The huge difference to me is that my H was and is extremely remorseful and has spent the last 7 years being a better H to me than he ever was in the first 11 years of our M. And the whore was the only one he cheated with. Does that make him better than somebody who cheated with several? Not necessarily but it does make my story "different" not the same, and it does mean I have something different to process and decide whether I can forgive it.

As far as I know the whore is not at all remorseful. I hate her. Perhaps not with the same intensity as I once did, but I hate the type of woman she is and I'm not going to apologize for it.

As far as my marriage goes, of course it is only my H's actions that will really count, especially after that. No matter what the circumstances, no matter who or how hard they pursued, if my H did it again, I would file for a D immediately.

I did say there was a time when I might have felt just a bit different, before this happened in my current M.

My XH cheated with more women than he can count, most of them prostitutes. But he did have at least 2 EA/PAs. It is a little hard to blame all those women when quite obviously my XH went looking for it. (My current H did not, but did do the wrong thing for eventually falling for the ego stroking, etc. that she was giving. It is quite clear to me he learned his lesson and that would not happen again.

One of the EA/PAs my XH was involved with did not know he was married at first; he had lied to her. At first, I did not blame her for anything and was glad she told me the truth (She called me when she got suspicious he was married). but low and behold, after that woman heard me burst into tears, and tell her that I was 7 months pregnant and we were very much married, she still slept with him after that! I don't have the same vengence and hatred for her as the whore who pursued my current H though. It does matter to me who pursues who though I know many here insist it does not matter. It matters to me.

My XH married the final OW (not the one mentioned previously). He is still married to her and they have been married over 20 years. I tolerate her rather well, if I say so myself. I actually feel a bit sorry for her at times because I believe he cheats on her too.

So my main point here is that every case is different.

Some AP's ARE Sociopaths, Some WS's are too.

That's just it; you never really know whether it is the WS or the AP (or both) until you look more closely at the individual set of details. In my case, my XH was the sociopath and in my current case, the Whore that went after my H is the one who gets that title.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 2:10 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


Posts: 5683 | Registered: Apr 2006
Confused85
♀ New Member
Member # 40813
Default  Posted: 2:01 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Safeguard
Yes I do agree that having is fair having a weak immune system mean u are more vulnerable to illness. If u know u have a weak immunity to illness then u need to learn how to protect your self. Pervention is the key


Before you give up, think about why you held on for so long

Posts: 19 | Registered: Sep 2013
Safeguard
♀ Member
Member # 38899
Default  Posted: 2:12 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@lucky:
But as you've emphatically stated; You don't believe a WS can be in this poor weakened state. Or a BS is an idiot for believing an OW/OM could have some sort "blame". After years of being here.... so many WS's are in a terrible emotional state at the start o

Please quote me. I never stated, nor implied any such thing.

So let me just throw this back your way:

Do you actually have a freaking point in this, because all the nonsensical babbling does distract.


"since your actions don't match your words, excuse me while I stop believing you."

Posts: 143 | Registered: Apr 2013
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 2:13 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well...what an interesting thread!!!

IMHO FWH is totally to blame for what he did to us. Totally.

But I still get to hate the OWs It is my right!!!! and no one will tell me not to feel that way.

Good grief ....I enjoy it .... it soothes my soul.....and no one can convince me that I shouldn't hate them.

They betrayed the sisterhood.

They are the weakest of the weak, predators, family destroyers who deserve to rot in hell.

(of course if they are FORMER WAYWARDS like our wonderful posters in Wayward side - I don't hate them at all - in fact I have enormous respect for them. Unfortunately FWH's OWs are remorseless so I DO get to hate them!!)

I guess that also means my FWH should be hated and deserves to rot in hell too .... (although he may get off cause I think he is remorseful and I don't think his OWs were M. But who knows??? There were probably others besides those I know about and maybe he is still at it or will start again. Time will tell.)

And a BH could say the same about my FWH and it would be deserved. If my FWH was screwing an OW who was married I would respect the right of the BH to hate him.

So after all that rambling what am I getting at???

IMHO, people on here get to feel what they want to. We should all respect their feelings and just support them where they are in their journey.

The object of our/their anger may change as time goes on. That too is our/their right.

Maybe one day I will stop hating the OWs. Maybe not. However I feel is right for me. No one gets to judge me or how I feel.

Everyone should be supporting our betrayed sisters and brothers through their pain.

If they want to blame the OM/OW that is their right. We may not think it is wise. We may gently try to steer them in another direction. But we don't get to tell them how they should feel.

I do believe that as time goes on they will come to lay the blame where IMHO it belongs - with the WS - but they need to be allowed to find this place in their own time. If they still want to hate the OW/M let them.

Our job is to help them survive and heal.

Not to tell them how they should feel.

HUGS to all

Laura


[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:10 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2738 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Lulutrixie
♀ New Member
Member # 38418
Default  Posted: 2:39 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After lurking for many months, I finally posted the first time. Scary!

Although so apprehensive at the prospect of sharing, (my story is very, very ugly) I was fairly confident I would be safe in a community that was focused on supporting people who like me, were victims of abusive partners and destructive marriages.

It turns out I was not quite right. This topic feels as though it has turned nasty - and from where I sit, nasty has no place on SI.
Kate

[This message edited by Lulutrixie at 2:49 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


Take care of him. And make him feel important. And if you can do that, you'll have a happy and wonderful marriage. Like two out of every ten couples.

Neil Simon

Posts: 2 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Melbourne, Australia
Bobbi_sue
♀ Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 2:40 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do believe that as time goes on they will come to lay the blame where IMHO it belongs - with the WS - but they need to be allowed to find this place in their own time. If they still want to hate the OW/M let them.

It's been 7 years for me and I don't think it is going to change. As far as the word "blame" I will say I have forgiven my H. But I acknowledge he did something very wrong, if you want to call that blame.

As for the whore, I blame her too and have not forgiven her. I don't believe it is necessary to forgive anyone whom I don't believe is remorseful.


Posts: 5683 | Registered: Apr 2006
Safeguard
♀ Member
Member # 38899
Default  Posted: 3:12 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bobbi_sue,

Thank you for taking the time to write that very eloquent post.

You helped me gain a little more clarity of though about the whole, "lumped together" syndrome. I was pointing out that it is usually the AP being portrayed as, "The villein of the piece", when in reality it is like you say, not always one way or the other.


That's just it; you never really know whether it is the WS or the AP (or both) until you look more closely at the individual set of details. In my case, my XH was the sociopath and in my current case, the Whore that went after my H is the one who gets that title.


"since your actions don't match your words, excuse me while I stop believing you."

Posts: 143 | Registered: Apr 2013
Vulcanized
♀ Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 3:21 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

they seemed to be of the view if the OW would just bow out of the picture, life would be okay again.

Yup. On DD, I thought if OW went away, problem solved. How green I was ... about all of it/XH/OW+ So very, very, very many things I'd yet to discover.

Proof that OW is not some magic vixen, irresistible to XH: after I NC'ed XH, main OW got promoted, which left her spot as side project open. That position was filled in no time.

The object of our/their anger may change as time goes on. That too is our/their right.

Apparently I was neck deep in some BS fog myself. Once my cranial/rectal reversion took place, the blame fell squarely on XH. At this juncture, I think main OW's just punishment is that she still has XH. Sorta. Kinda. When he's not fucking other OW.

XH's main OW knew that he was M'd. She was
fucking him in my bed
, so, yeah, she knew. But my JAMF XH was the one who invited her into my M, home & bed. She was just damaged/crazy/stupid/whatever the correct adjective is enough to go. His job was to protect me & our M. Not only did he fail, he actively brought in the wrecking crew.

Although I am angry at her for working so hard to destroy my M & take my XH, she really isn't the issue to me. In doing so, she gave me the best gift ever, forcing me to see the real XH, not the mask he presented. Again reinforcing in my head that the problem isn't her, the problem is XH.

He's doing the exact same thing to her. I have no idea if they've since gotten M'd, engaged, moved in, etc. Don't know, don't care. But I do know that he's still the same faithless JAMF he was before & during me.

eta: cat on keyboard typos

[This message edited by Vulcanized at 3:24 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 730 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:22 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lulutrixie

Hi honey

Welcome. Please hang around.

As a fellow aussie I am so sad you had to find us but happy you did. There is so much wisdom here. I know that you will find the help you need.

Firstly, the best place for you is Just Found Out. Here in general and also in Reconciliation there are often discussions which are contentious. Especially among those of us who have been around a while.

I have read your story and am so sorry. Please continue to share your story and let people help you. We all remember what those awful early days were like and want to help the newbies. You will not find a more caring community than SI.

I was fairly confident I would be safe in a community that was focused on supporting people who like me, were victims of abusive partners and destructive marriages.

You are safe honey. You really are.

Please stay. Start your own post in JFO and people will be along to help. It is often quiet here on the weekends and also in the evenings when all the Yanks are in bed but there are also lots of people from Oz and other places who will be in to help.

BIG HUGS

Laura


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2738 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
summerain
♀ Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 3:26 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Safeguard I understand your point.

To some of the other posters on this thread: sometimes when we make generalisations it's because we're upset! Let's play nicely!

However, I think it's easier to unload the blame and anger onto our waywards. Because fortunately or unfortunately we still love them and generally care about their feelings.

In some very very rare cases they are 'trapped' but I think it is common sense to realise that the OW or OM didn't 'trap' them.

But emotionally it is a very different thing.

Lulutrixie and Laura 28! Fellow Aussies I wonder how many are on SI?

[This message edited by lauren123 at 3:30 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
Safeguard
♀ Member
Member # 38899
Default  Posted: 3:31 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Vulcanized,
That was refreshing!


"since your actions don't match your words, excuse me while I stop believing you."

Posts: 143 | Registered: Apr 2013
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:36 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

T/J

Hi Lauren

You'd be surprised how many Aussies there are!!!

I stumble on them from time time. You can also often guess from the times we post .

BIG HUGS honey

Laura


Married 32yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 60yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA 16+ years).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2738 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Holly-Isis
♀ Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j
There ARE predatory AP's
for sure, but like vultures, they can only prey on the weak...

Thank you for saying this. It puts a new perspective on MrH. He likes to portray a strong man. He obviously wasn't or he would have been able to resist temptation. This does not absolve him but rather gives me another perspective. It's the emperor not wearing any clothes...reveals his foolishness as well as the selfishness I already knew was there.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

❣I hope my issues don't discourage ur healing. I've buried a lot & my WH hasn't done his part in R❣


Posts: 10992 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Limbo
LostAngry
♀ Member
Member # 40808
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The OW is not THE problem, but she is part of the faulty, destructive equation. Nobody can have an affair without an AP.

I do not understand the idea of hating the AP while reconciling with the WS, but it is not mine to understand. The WS is no better or worse of a person than the AP and vice versa.

I have not been at SI long, only since the summer when I started reading, but it appears a very small portion of WS really try to reconcile and change who they are. I give great kudos to the ones who do, but it does not make them better than the person they stepped out with.

It does not matter to me if my WS AP was predatory or if he was. He chose to lie, cheat and betray me. She chose to be his accomplice and willingly be a part of my pain. There is more than enough blame and ill feelings to go around, and not one AP or WS is better than another.

What I cannot right in my head is that they also human and deserve a second chance at life. I am too close to the pain and it has made me bitter and jaded.


"How People treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours"
Wayne Dyer

Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2013
Dreamland
♀ Member
Member # 40488
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow Safeguard are you the OW... This is quite disturbing because the OW did target my Husband. My husband was not LOOKING for an affair. The woman went out of her way to stalk my husband found his pattern.. When he left to and from work. Call a coworker of my WH to get his phone email etc.. And she went to work. When I spoke to her mom.. Her mom said how happy they were and they had big plans for my H. I was like WTF.. Plans he is married. Mother said yes love can be very complicated. She said tons of shit that made me sick and the OW father and mom.. Finally I said to her ..hmm yes he just used her to fuck her in a parking lot in her car.. I guess you call that love.
So I am very hurt angry at my husband. Yes he made the choice but if she would not have been there .. I know he would not have cheated..


Me-BS 50 Him-WH 47, DD17
Together since 1993, Married 19 yrs
DDay 3/12,4/12,7/12 EA-PA OW - 25 single husband chasing bastard whore

Posts: 515 | Registered: Aug 2013
Bobbi_sue
♀ Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I give great kudos to the ones who do, but it does not make them better than the person they stepped out with.
My H was one you are giving kudos to. And the whore who pursued him is still the same nasty whore, has not tried to better herself to my knowledge. So I disagree and will continue make up my mind about individuals separately instead of lumping them together saying all cheaters are the same. I also don't understand your viewpoint of thinking it odd to R with the WS and still hating the whore. My WS is remorseful. I just don't see why it is so horrible to forgive someone who has changed his entire life to be a better person who deserves me for a wife. And as I said before, I've never seen a shread of evidence to indicate the whore is remorseful, or has worked to become a better person.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 10:04 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


Posts: 5683 | Registered: Apr 2006
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Vulcan kinda summed it up for me. Thank you.

I have observed over the many months here that there is a tendency of BWs to over-focus on OW (more than BHs) do. Look at the BM thread - most of the discussion is solely on the WWs.

I think it is because in society the idea that men are more prone to 'being men' is condoned: that men naturally want multiple partners and they are hapless when under the control of the little brain. Especially when a magic all powerful vagina presented herself.

Well, we men are not hapless.

Plus as BSs we do not know what our WSs told their APs about themselves or the M.

How would we know whether our WS was the predator or not?

Anyways, I agree with Vulcan and in some ways the original premise of the thread, because obsessing over/comparing with/winning against the other woman means energy is being directed AWAY from the main task at hand: seeing clearly what you have, what you want, ending any unhealthy codependent behaviors, looking back at the M candidly, looking at your spouse candidly, etc. These efforts of honest reflection and towards ending denial are so difficult as they are. Why retard the process?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 843 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I HATE what my SAWH did to our two decades-long M--for the devastation and the disease and the disloyalty. Right now, though, since I've chosen to try reconciliation, hating him is counterproductive. I have to approach this with an open heart and a clear mind.

I'm still angry, though. And I still need to vent. So I project as much of the hatred and vengeance and garbage as possible onto OW. It will do her no harm. If it's in my heart long-term, it WILL harm me. So she has become my tool (ironically appropriate, eh?). And, eventually, when hating her has no more appeal, no more value, no more oomph, I'll have to let it go. But for me--not for her.

My bff and I have released steam and injected humor into this whole sordid mess by creating revenge fantasies directed at OW. It feels good. Directing that same passion at my WH would backfire. He is the father of my four beloved children, the only man to ever warm my bed, the husband who vowed to love me forever. Is his betrayal greater? By far. But lashing out at him doesn't help us rebuild this union. The most bitter hurts and curses and vents, therefore, get directed her way.

And I can live with that. Not only that, I find it extremely effective. And if her BH throws darts at a photo of my husband, I would applaud him. In fact, I rather hope he does.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
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