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User Topic: The OW is not the problem!
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked you earlier in this thread, Safeguard, what you were upset about. You never answered. Your scorn for BS's that are either trying to lay all the blame on the AP and for the BS's that actually do reconcile is evident. I feel that is just a cover up for what you are really feeling.

Your generalizations and your condescending attitude are evident throughout this thread and I could point them all out and pick them apart piece by piece. I am not going to do that as I neither have the time right now nor do I feel it would help you.

I feel you have a lot of anger and bitterness. That is different from being a strong person. Are you in IC? I feel that maybe really helpful for you, Safeguard.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9655 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yikes--my first double post.

[This message edited by RippedSoul at 10:55 AM, September 28th (Saturday)]


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's a healthy statement rippedview...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 867 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
RippedSoul
♀ Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, MC Jack. It works for me.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 454 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j LostAngry
but it appears a very small portion of WS really try to reconcile and change who they are.
And you have these stats where?
I give great kudos to the ones who do, but it does not make them better than the person they stepped out with.

Yes, they are better people if they do the hard work to change themselves. The OW in our case stalked and fished for my FWH for 8-9 years after he ended the affair. My FWH didn't fish or stalk the OW and stayed NC on his part. OW didn't change one bit. An unremorseful cumdumpster who tried to keep inserting itself into our marriage.

end T/J


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9655 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
hurtinghearts
♀ Member
Member # 27232
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I find this thread to be very cruel and judgmental towards those of us who may not feel the same way you do.

I DO blame my WS 100%...he was not preyed upon, in fact he was the one doing most of the pursuing.

With that said, the OW knew he was married and they do share some blame, especially if they're not remorseful. Therein lies the difference...although my husband was completely wrong, HE is remorseful.

You know what? The main OW who gave me a sincere apology has been forgiven. she knew she helped cause my world to crash and burn. I hold zero anger towards her because she owned her part.

Those OP's who have not? Well, I'll feel anger towards them forever. And that's my right.

My husband did not get a free pass, but neither should the OP's.

Who the heck are you to tell us how we should feel? In this post and the other post in JFO, you've managed to make those of us who feel pretty bad already even worse. Thanks a lot.


Dday: Jan. 8th, 2010
OW#1 6 month PA...she is remorseful and forgiven. OW#2 The "therapist"... played head games with me. OW#3... loved to give blow jobs in her office. OW#4 the couple from Hell

Posts: 70 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Illinois
LoveActually
♀ Member
Member # 31030
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The OW in my case knowingly had an affair with a married man and encouraged him daily to end his marriage. Ummm, so although she didn't hold a gun to my husband's head and force him to cheat on me, likewise he didn't hold a gun to her head. She was a willing participant in affair so therefore she gets to take responsibility and OWN her part in what she did. What do you think..I'm going to send her a thank you card. Seriously..what SisterMilkshake said, you are a very angry person and I think your post was meant to stir up everyone and get a little attention for yourself. You got it! Hugs to you because I know you need one.


BS (Me)
WS (Him)
D-Day 5/29/09
Married 11 yrs, together 16 yrs

Posts: 772 | Registered: Jan 2011
Flatlined123
♀ Member
Member # 35862
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hold OW accountable, but I place more blame on H for his actions and choosing not to talk to me about his depression.

This was a case of H bring in a very dark place in the depths of depression (not that that gives him a pass at all) and OW KNOWINGLY entering into a sick relationship with a married man. A sick married man at that!

This isn't a matter of "Oh, I'm sorry, I let the door slam shut in front of you or I'm sorry I bumped you." You forgive those things automatically. This person decided it was okay to try to destroy a family. She herself had been cheated on before her divorce. She KNEW what it was like to be cheated on!

So the question is this: Knowing the pain that you were caused by infidelity, would you do that to another person? What kind of sick person would do that?

OW deserves every bit of scorn her sorry piece of shit self will ever get in her life!

As someone here previously said, H did not get off easily with the gift of R. He has earned it! He has seen what he's done, he's seen me be reduced to a sobbing pile of mush, curled up in a ball striking out blindly and screaming at him when he tried to comfort me. He's seen me have panic attacks, he saw me drop 50 pounds in two months, he dealt with people asking him if I was okay, was I sick. He had to explain to our kids his poor choices. He's had to deal with the knowing by our friends and family of what he's done. Above all he lives with what he's done every day the same way as I have to.

So was his gift of R easily came by? No way!

On the other hand OW shows no remorse, got married and, as far as I've been told continues her A with a coworker aka her "soulmate"


Me: BS 43
H : WS 46
DD #1 7-11-08
DD#2 8-21-09 same OW, A never ended.
Started R in 12-09
"If what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, I should be able to bench press a Buick."

Posts: 670 | Registered: Jun 2012
redrock
♀ Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I is my opinion that Safeguard made a blanket statement that is both true and not true. Some OW/OM are predatory and some BS's get stuck in their need to focus anger and hatred on a party outside of their relationship.

IMO both things have happened in my tenure on the board. That's my opinion in my reading of threads over years.

If it is a phase in the process, some people work through it. Some people don't. Some people feed off that anger and cycle through it and never reach indifference. It happens. but who is going to come out and admit that? More often is going to be seen as an accusation of those poster who experienced the predator effect.
This is my opinion based on my time here. No more or less valid than anyone else on the board.

I once posted an unpopular topic about surprise pregnancies after d-day. Is it wrong to even pose the question that some couples/individuals use that as a shortcut to ensure R? It is touchy. Because there are real surprises too. But, again IMO, using pregnancy, the new child, has been used to shore up R and commitment to the marriage.

Is my posing the question an attack on anyone who had a HB child? I don't think so.

I don't know, but this thread reminded me of it.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3156 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In our case the A would not have happened at that time without the OW stroking my H's ego at a vulnerable time and making herself available. He was not "looking". But he also would have never had dealt with his lifelong issues and it likely would have happened at some other time. She was incidental, no one he would have "chosen".

He does not blame her. He realizes that her praise was excessive and she made herself available, but knows it was his boundaries that failed and his coping skills that were faulty. He acknowledges that she threatened him to keep it going but that he was the one that crossed that line. He thinks they were equally "sick and affected".

I don't hate her but pity her and do feel scorn for her. We were friendly and on Dday I did speak to her. Her excuse was that she was "lonely"!

He has changed in every possible way. I don't care what she has done.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1729 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
prowoman
♀ Member
Member # 40761
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with the basis of your argument. I think it is super naive to think any AP force any WS into an A. I think trying to put the blame on AP is rugsweeping/sugarcoating the situation. I don't expect or need someone I don't know to share my morals, but my WH had made a promise not to do this.


me: BS 39 | stbxWH: 46
DD14, DS2
DDAY: Aug12... A continued "underground"
Separated Nov13 and Divorcing
OC Born May 14

Posts: 129 | Registered: Sep 2013
LostAngry
♀ Member
Member # 40808
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And you have these stats where?

No stats, simply my perception, which is what a lot of the posts on this board are. Are you asking for stats simply due to my perception not lining up with yours? I have read many statements of BS wishing their WS would read, come to SI, go to counseling, do the work. The stats say somewhere between 30-60% of marriages will survive infidelity. All that means is they do not divorce. It does not mean there is true reconciliation. It means "not divorced". I do believe many, many WS are too broken to even care enough to want to change. Do you have stats showing how many couples "reconcile"?

Yes, they are better people if they do the hard work to change themselves. The OW in our case stalked and fished for my FWH for 8-9 years after he ended the affair. My FWH didn't fish or stalk the OW and stayed NC on his part. OW didn't change one bit. An unremorseful cumdumpster who tried to keep inserting itself into our marriage.

You could be right, but many people think we are all broken and none are better than the other. Are we better than the person standing next to us in the grocery line, or are we simply broken and damaged in different ways?

I could not say. It is a large part of what I am struggling with. I would like to believe I am better than a WS or AP, perhaps I am simply damaging to society in a different manner, or one that is easier to hide. Hell if I know.


"How people treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours."
Wayne Dyer

Posts: 112 | Registered: Sep 2013
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No stats, simply my perception, which is what a lot of the posts on this board are.
Well, than maybe you should say it is my perception and not make it sound like a factual statement. And, your perception from what? The 40,000 something members here? Kind of a skewed sampling.
Do you have stats showing how many couples "reconcile"?
Nope, I don't, but I didn't make a statement like yours, either.
I give great kudos to the ones who do, but it does not make them better than the person they stepped out with.
You didn't say does this make them a better person than a person standing next to them in the grocery line. You specifically said this doesn't make them better than the person they stepped out with. And, imo, yes, if they have done the work and the AP is an unremorseful cumdumpster still, yes they are better.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9655 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The OW is not the problem!

I agree with the premise of this thread. We live in a fairly large city. I bet there are about a thousand guys trolling the bars and dance clubs every weekend who are just like my WW's fAP. They are a dime a dozen. I always took it for granted that there were plenty of broken men who would sleep with my wife. Just never thought she'd give one of them the opportunity.

Is my wife's OM a predator? Maybe. A scavenger is a more accurate term. Just like the African safari, there's plenty of scavengers out there in the human world looking for easy kills. It's up to us and our spouses to figure out why they were easy prey for lowlifes. There will always be lowlifes.

I agree that our spouses are the problem. It's normal IMO to hate the OM/OW, but it really is a total waste of psychic energy.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1387 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
thewife0404
♀ Member
Member # 22684
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with the basis of your argument. I think it is super naive to think any AP force any WS into an A. I think trying to put the blame on AP is rugsweeping/sugarcoating the situation. I don't expect or need someone I don't know to share my morals, but my WH had made a promise not to do this.

DITTO!
I AM A BS...and it is disturbing to hear a BS say "OW/OM knew WH/WW was married". I always think well damn...did WH/WW attend their wedding? Did they not know they were married? I do however understand that this projection is a part of what I call the denial to recovery process.

My personal feeling is that no matter how sexy, alluring or predatory another woman is - it is MY HUSBAND responsibility to safeguard OUR MARRIAGE, our family and MY heart that I GAVE to HIM!

I don't think it is appropriate to accuse Safeguared of being an OW/OM because she feel this way. I am sure others feel this way they just have not verbalized it because of the nature of the forum.

[This message edited by thewife0404 at 4:14 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]


A man is not a secure retirement plan!
BS-45
WXH-47
DS-18
DD-16
DS-14
DDay-Jan99
OC#1-10
DD#2-Same OW-Jan04
OC#2-5
DIVORCED-OCT 04

Posts: 68 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Hell
Arianya
♀ New Member
Member # 19321
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with you "the wife", and others with a similar viewpoint.

I'm not an AP, nor a BS, just a casual observer here, but in my mind, it shouldn't matter if someone strolls by someone in a bathing suit, strips down in front of them, propositions them, offers sex on a platter, etc., it's the married person's responsibility to just say NO, period. Is that totally unrealistic of me to think?? If the married person said no, the affair would never happen. I suppose though, this only works if one person is married, if they both are, I'm not sure...I guess it would come down to whoever is doing the propositioning should be shut down from the get-go, no thanks, done deal, no affair. I tend to think in black and whites though.


Posts: 17 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Canada
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My gut feeling upon reading your initial post and your snarky responses to BSes who dared to counter your assumptions was that you have a real problem. SisterMilkshake asked you what you are upset about, and you haven't answered her.

IMHO, it is healthier to hate AP's, OW, OM, etc. than fellow BS'es.

This forum is to help people recover, not tear them down farther.

HBH


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
Safeguard
♀ Member
Member # 38899
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Redrock: Thanks for your thoughts.

I didn't post: "I can't believe the dumb ass BS's can't see that their WS's are losers."

That's not, at all how I was feeling, thinking, or what I was trying to express.

I feel like that's how some people are trying to re-frame the post though. (In some cases to the point of, "Me thinks they do protest to much!).

I AM a BS! I have just noticed that there are certain emotional *Tar Pits* (like the pregnancy one, you mentioned, yup...), that many BS's can get stuck in.


I wanted to see if others were seeing that same pattern. (it seemed to me, to be cropping up a LOT!)

We all view currant events through the filter of our past experiences... I didn't think I could be the only one noticing this.

There were some really thoughtful, insightful comments posted in this thread.

I appreciate all the
view points expressed. There is so much we can learn from each other!

Thank you to everyone who chimed in. My intent was never a malicious one.


"since your actions don't match your words, excuse me while I stop believing you."

Posts: 143 | Registered: Apr 2013
Safeguard
♀ Member
Member # 38899
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Hurtbut hopeful,

I didn't answer Sisters question, because she has no basis on which she could have formed the opinion that I am "angry". Just because someone questions the Status Quo, does not make them an angry and accusatory.

Geeeze Louise!


"since your actions don't match your words, excuse me while I stop believing you."

Posts: 143 | Registered: Apr 2013
LostAngry
♀ Member
Member # 40808
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, September 28th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, than maybe you should say it is my perception and not make it sound like a factual statement. And, your perception from what? The 40,000 something members here? Kind of a skewed sampling.

I am sorry, I disagree. I do not believe it is necessary to qualify each post I make with "in my opinion or it is my perception". Most posts made on SI are opinions and perceptions of individual members and not scientific facts that need bibliographies, so we will need to agree to disagree regarding that. My perceptions is based on reading here and many other blogs, psychology sites and forums about infidelity. It is not a single view perception.

You didn't say does this make them a better person than a person standing next to them in the grocery line. You specifically said this doesn't make them better than the person they stepped out with. And, imo, yes, if they have done the work and the AP is an unremorseful cumdumpster still, yes they are better.

Perhaps, or perhaps the APs have worked in the past on other parts of themselves that WS have not. Perhaps they are not remorseful about their affair with a WS, but they are remorseful about other areas of their life. Perhaps they are remorseful about nothing.

I am trying to decide what is mine to judge and what is not. Do I judge and name call an unremorseful WS and forget about the plank in my eye? I have been exacting revenge for a long time and perhaps it was acceptable because of who it was against, but if there is Karma, is the way I've gone about revenge good or bad, and what am I reaping?

Does Karma care who we judge and why, or simply that we judge while we look away from our sins? Are my sins "more" acceptable because they are not the atrocity of infidelity?

As you can see, I have many thoughts to dig through. I have judged for a long time, and I am now questioning if the judgments are healthy and truthful.

I philosophically understand shifting the hate and blame to the AP as to make it easier to R with the WS. It is hard to R with somebody you hate and consider a cumdumpster. BTW, I liked that particular nickname, I called the man's AP that from the erotic website many times. I went as far as to put it in letter(s) I mailed. She in turn, showed me compassion and kindness, and never once called me a name. So yes, I wrestle with a blanket idea that anyone of us is better even than an unremorseful WS or AP.

Perhaps she fucked with my head.


"How people treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours."
Wayne Dyer

Posts: 112 | Registered: Sep 2013
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