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New Beginnings Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Money and relationships.
hexed
♀ Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have hit a really big 'uh oh'/red flag with TG. Yesterday I realized that he and are not in the same place with finances. Particularly in the long term view.

For the first 3 years of our relationship this hasn't really been an issue. We were both devestated financially b/c of our respective Ds. There was no money. Talking about the future was just frustrating and depressing. We've both recently had some success in our careers that has softened the financial strain.

I've started trying to plan for the longer term. We are in totally different places. We are at an impasse. I don't know what to do.

I don't believe that love is enough for a successful relationship. Goodness knows I love this man. However, this may be a dealbreaker for me. Is this really something that should be? I feel petty on a certain level.

It's definitely not over. I'm not giving up just yet but I'm feeling HUGE internal conflict over this.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8439 | Registered: Apr 2008
nomistakeaboutit
♂ Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hexed,

I think the reason for the huge conflict you are feeling is not because of your different views on how to handle money, but what those views say about you as people. Is it because you feel that the way you choose to view and approach your recent successes and healthier financial circumstances is a reflection of your:

Maturity
Impulsiveness
Ability to learn lessons
Degree of seriousness about life
Commitment
...other


Me: BH 56.........Her: WW 43
DD: 6..........DS: 4
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 942 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
cmego
♀ Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ex and I were miles apart on finances, and it caused a lot of problems for us. I don't think I could be with someone who has a drastically different view on money.

I tend to be conservative and save. Ex has holes in his pockets. It would be a problem for me too.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4113 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
InnerLight
♀ Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you say more about what the conflict is? Does one want to save for retirement and one want to buy stuff?

Money is a huge issue because it triggers survival issues.

Have you talked about it?


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. dating again, living in the sticks with a cat. It's taking a long time to create new dreams and a new life but it is slowly coming together.

Posts: 5798 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, slow down. Not a deal breaker. You guys are really good together...you can work this one out.

There are several different ways to deal with financial differences. It can cause stress in a relationship but it really depends on how it is handled.

The way that works best for me, no matter who I am with, is YOUR money, MY money, OUR money.

OUR money is the financial contribution you both decide on who is going to pay what bills, etc....

YOUR money is a portion of your check that is yours to spend or save or invest...whatever you decide.

HIS money is a portion of his check that is his to spend or save or squander, whatever he decides.

As long as you two can find a compromise on how the bills get paid, and how much you are each going to contribute...this shouldn't be an issue.

It changes a bit if one of you quits working, but that is workable also if you are both willing.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15194 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
missherlots
♂ Member
Member # 30591
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my opinion, balance is a must. Complement and supplement makes a whole.
You are one way, he is other. this is what is beautiful about human nature. WE all are different.
work it out, plan, discous, have a dialog. That is not a red flag, HE is who he is.
We all can change. You changed because you are not the same as 10 years ago.
Some people live the now and put little for the future, some others never live the now and save for the future but never make to that future. You get it?
A balance of both is the key for everything in this life.
everything has to do with our view of life. maybe his vies is a bit narrow and you may come to terms that. there is some remodeling to do before you give up on him.
A good man is hard to find, but is it up to you to work on him to create your master piece.
My father us to say: behind a great man, it is a greater woman.
As you know, we men, are wired differently, find the red and black wires and connect them right to have the same frecuency as yours.

my two cents


Pain and suffering is part of life, but I choose to feel love and compassion for all people excluding no one.

Posts: 96 | Registered: Jan 2011
hexed
♀ Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maturity
Impulsiveness
Ability to learn lessons
Degree of seriousness about life
Commitment
...other

Yes to all of it.

Money is a huge issue in my life and has been since my parents D. That's a long story but the financial ramifications of that deeply impacted. Spending used to be a self comforting mechanism for me. Not a wise place to be.

In my M it was huge issue b/c I used to bend over backwards so that my X could do have what he wanted. Then I resented that and bought what I wanted. (notice the word wanted not needed) We were in constant financial perile. My X blamed me but wouldn't actually discuss it with me. We won't go into his is $1000 a month drinking problem.

I am making very aware efforts to change my spending habits and saving behaviours now that I have some money to work with. There are several large, semi necessary purchases that have been put off due to money over the last few years that will be made. I am saving 15% of my $$$ now. Its really not enough. With a little bit a luck, a lot of discipline, and some endurance I could be entirely debt free and have a house 50% paid for in 24 months and 6 months of living expenses in the bank. This is a HUGE thing for me I'm tired of living with financial insencuirty.

TG was very poor as a child. As an adult made a lot of money and supported too many people with it. Lost what was left in his D. He has a small retirement income guaranteed. When I bring up issues of long term planning he just laughs it off. He feels as though there's no point in it. He feels like the money will just disappear anyway.

I can somewhat force the issue b/c he will let me control the money. But it just leaves me with fear that he won't be disciplined with the money and it will be gone. Sure I could take care of it with my money but it really creates the same dynamic I had in M that was a total fail.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8439 | Registered: Apr 2008
Eranda
♀ Member
Member # 6010
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've come across some significant issues with money and relationships as well.

One guy made less than I did- a lot less. He was very insecure about it, but would never make any effort to improve his situation. He was living on a shoestring through no fault of his own, but he didn't ever try to better himself- which I just couldn't agree with. I always told him- if you don't like where you are, move. DO something. Make yourself worth more in the job market. But he never did. In the end, that's not what sunk the relationship, but it didn't help.

Another guy was very impulsive with money and never seemed to want to invest in anything. I own a home, and it's the most important thing in the world to me. I work very hard to maintain and improve it as much as possible, frankly- it's where most of my money goes. I do this because it's my security and my future, and I know it. But this guy was happy being a "renter". He rented his marital home from his in-laws, and when he moved in with me he kept reminding me how he didn't want to do "projects" and how he was "just a renter". I never asked him to spend any money on my home because that's not his responsibility- BUT I was uncomfortable with his attitude that investing money in the house wasn't that important. To me is the most important thing. He had a 401k and all that, but he just didn't think that much about the future and how to make it better. That's not what sank the relationship, but it didn't help.

Money differences are part and parcel of relationships later in life when you both come with pasts and ways of doing things. I can't imagine ever finding someone who I agreed with 100% about money.

Having someone understand your money approach is pretty important. Think about the ramifications it can have over the long term. Either you can come to an understanding, or you can't. (((hugs)))


My Blog: http://allofthewaystohell.com/

Posts: 4226 | Registered: Dec 2004 | From: eastern PA
MelisssaZZZ
♀ Member
Member # 25953
Happy  Posted: 6:43 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

from what you describe it - i dont see this per se as a red flag. its more of a compatibility / compromise issue.

sounds to be that he pulling his share financially (which if that would not be the case, could potentially ne a red flag). You are upset that his views for long term finances (saving etc) are different to yours.

and you both have history with finances which has been part in forming the attitude on finances.

What is your 'real' fear - that he will spend all money and you will have to support him at old age? why are you so invested in how spends the money (as long as relationship etc costs are taken care of)? all i hear is your fears of something (him overspending - has he done it - do you have any basis for thinking this will happen?) which has not happened..

or has it?

have to say i am puzzled a bit what exactly th 'red flag' is? him spending reclessly or simply not agreeing to live on bread and water as per your strict saving schedule sorry just over exxagerating to get my point across :)


Me BS - 37
WH 39
1 child - 5yrs
married 5 yrs, together 7
DD1 midmarch 09
DD2 early june 09
some more DD's of course - cannot bother to list
LTA (2 yrs) fully?? finished mid Aug 09
Status: Divorced Oct 2011

Posts: 1225 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: London, UK
lost_in_toronto
♀ Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This isn't my forum, but the title caught my eye because money has been an issue in our relationship. Not whether we have, just how we both relate to money. The way we relate to money has so much to do with our FOO and our past relationships.

Having read what you wrote, I can see why this worries you. I'm not sure this is a red flag, or if it is simply something that needs to worked out. I do know that it can be really hard to change patterns in relationships, especially with how we spend money, so I think it's a good thing to resolve this as soon as possible.

FWIW - and I'm out on a limb here - I'm wondering about his response of "why bother, it will disappear anyway. Where is he expecting it to disappear to? Maybe, unconsciously, he thinks the only way to hold on to his money is to spend it right away, so no one can take it away from him again. Savings and building assets might seem like a fruitless exercise after being burned so badly. On the other hand, his approach is making you worried about the long term health of your relationship. I think changing your discussion to include these kinds of thoughts can make conversations more useful, because they become less about dollars and cents and more about attitudes.

Money issues are so nuanced, and rarely have to do with the actual money in my experience.

Have you considered seeing a financial counselor together?


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1657 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
InnerLight
♀ Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the 'red flag' you are seeing is not the warning sign that the relationship is destined to fail sign. I think you've hit a wounded area for both of you. Past traumas create ripples and you are feeling those ripples. You have a strong relationship that has weathered many storms. You also know that you would be OK if it didn't work out. It's entirely possible that together you can heal some of these old financial traumas and both get to a better place.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. dating again, living in the sticks with a cat. It's taking a long time to create new dreams and a new life but it is slowly coming together.

Posts: 5798 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
million pieces
♀ Member
Member # 27539
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was hit very hard financially via my D as was my SO. We are planning on meeting w a financial planner together to discuss our financial future and goals. It would be a HUGE red flag for me if any future H of mine didn't want to plan for retirement. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just for me, I need the security of knowing that I will be able to retire and I will not be destitute.


Me - 42
2 kids, 9 and 11
D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later
Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

Posts: 1241 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: MD
gahurts
♂ Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The way that works best for me, no matter who I am with, is YOUR money, MY money, OUR money.

OUR money is the financial contribution you both decide on who is going to pay what bills, etc....

YOUR money is a portion of your check that is yours to spend or save or invest...whatever you decide.

HIS money is a portion of his check that is his to spend or save or squander, whatever he decides.

How come it's an investment when she spends it but sqandering when he does?

I think the key thing is that you both talk about it and come up with a plan together on how you are going to deal with money. I have always felt that in an M all the money should be co-mingled. After two financial disasters using that approach, I think I will prefer a Yours, Mine and Ours approach to prevent some of the second guessing that I always had to deal with.

[This message edited by gahurts at 2:02 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3407 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How come it's an investment when she spends it but sqandering when he does?
It doesn't have to be. I wrote it that way just to make a point. She can "squander" her money and he can invest. Or they can both squander. Or both invest. I didn't mean it quite so literal....I just meant it as a general idea. Honestly I wasn't even paying attention to which sex I wrote as the "squander" and which I wrote as the "invest."

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 2:41 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15194 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
gahurts
♂ Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA, I was just teasing. I understand what you meant.

ETA: Your descriptions certainly fit the original post.

[This message edited by gahurts at 3:53 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3407 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA, I was just teasing. I understand what you meant.
Oh! Cool. I wasn't sure so I felt I should explain. Although, seriously, guys do a lot more squandering than girls do (wait!!!! I'm kidding, I'm kidding!!!!)


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15194 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
hexed
♀ Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think a lot of this for me is the emotional component. I cannot and will not have a relationship with the same financial dynamic I had with X.

Part of what is bothering me is that TG doesn't even really want to discuss it. He's just sort of given up on finances. I think he would do pretty much whatever I tell him to do but I don't want that. I want a shared responsibility.

Its all well and good to have his/hers/ours but the big things in life need to be 'ours' and that's where the communication is failing.


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8439 | Registered: Apr 2008
gardenparty
Member
Member # 12050
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think putting all the financial decisions and responsibility on one person in the relationship is awful. I was the banker in my marriage and found it so stressful that EX never wanted to have even a discussion about our finances. We were comfortable but every large purchase, even our houses he left up to me. It made me feel like I was the money cop all the time.


divorced!

Posts: 2665 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: newfoundland
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, October 1st (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I cannot and will not have a relationship with the same financial dynamic I had with X.
This is a trigger issue for you, and it is obviously triggering something for TG also. So there is tremendous opportunity for personal growth here on both of your ends.....


I know you want it to be an "ours" thing and you want him to share in the decision making. I understand about giving up financially! I keep spinning my wheels here too and it is disheartening. Also, google "learned helplessness". It is a very real phenomenon that many people go thru with one thing or another and he may be feeling that way with finances. If he has struggled and saved all his life and he keeps finding himself in a bad financial situation anyway, it is very easy to give up on the situation and it can take a lot of work to get out of that mindset.

I know you guys have worked on your communication and so I am sure you have let him know how important this is for you. And he loves you very much and is good at making your feelings and emotions a priority to him, so there is something really big here that is hindering him. You guys may need counseling to get at the bottom of what is really going on here, but I feel fear on his end. There are a lot of things that could be triggering that fear for him. He needs to discuss it with you so you don't feel you are in this alone.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15194 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Topic Posts: 19

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