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Just Found Out Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: I was right all along
LMomof2
♀ Member
Member # 41064
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, October 26th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((statistic)))

You and I must be married to the same WH. They have the exact same responses and behaviors after they were caught. Exactly. They are sick sick people. Only thinking of themselves and their needs. I kicked mine to the curb. He still thinks I am going to take him back and is going about his life as nothing happened. Can't wait till the papers are served.


LMomof2
Me - BW - 59
Him - WH - 59
35 yrs - 2 daughters 17, 21
DDay - 10-15-13
ONS - 9-20-13 and probably YEARS of gaslighting - signs were there.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
statistic
♀ Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, October 27th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Holly and LMomof2. I guess his response is pretty stereotypical, nonetheless very hurtful. He sent me the following
email:

I'm tired of your guessing.... And I'm tired of your controlling everything I do... I turned everything off because I don't need you spying on me every step. Do what u want and keep converting everything on me. I think I also want to be out of this. I will sign what is my part."

I've had 3 ddays bc of trickle truth. Since the most recent D day 4 weeks ago today, I've checked his phone once. That is the controlling, spying behavior he is referring to. This was less than an hour after he was apologizing profusely and begging me to being the baby home. Then I found the text he didn't tell me about and he grew angry and bolted. I'm going to use this renewed sense of anger, hurt, and betrayal to move ahead. I cannot stay in this place anymore. It just never ends. He truly believes he has legitimate reasons for his lies of omission and commission. I want to separate myself from this type of pain and deceit.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
statistic
♀ Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How did you all handle your WS's hot and cold behavior? My WH and I met to talk yesterday, but only went a few miles before I asked him to drop me off. I was in a bad mood over a few things that happened over the past week - he has not made time for marriage counseling and I found clips from the movie Friends W Benefits that she would send him as I was making an album on iPhoto. I didn't know about the videos and became sad when I'm confronted with a reminder of the affair.

He responded by telling me that it's been 2 months- (wrong, six weeks), and I need to be more positive in order for us to solve things. He said he did not give me a reason to be upset today so I should not be angry or upset when talking to him. I reminded him of why I'm upset & he said that he has tried to contact the mc, but the mc appointment times are during his work hours and he is not going to miss work to go. He has called the mc 2-3 per week, but appointment times are during my WH work hours. My WH said we have lots of bills to pay & he refuses to go into debt or live on the streets in order to attend as he is paid by the hour, not salary.

That's when he lost it and told me to go ahead and file, I don't need you, you are torturing me on purpose to make me pay, and told me Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you again and dropped me off. I started to cry & stopped listening to his yelling. When I started to cry, I remember him saying "see, is this what you wanted? This is what you get."

Why then does he come back to check on me? I told him to leave & did not go after him. Why does he call and text begging me to stop ignoring him and he has a question for me? Why does he sound so sad and say thing like " I font know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."

As has been the case over our entire marriage, I am struggling to not take responsibility for his anger. I wonder if I am just being a total inflexible hardass and totally destroying any chance of R, which I don't even know Ive ever wanted.
Please advise. I need an outsiders view because I feel like I'm the one in a fog.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Stat))))

He is no way shape or form ready for R. His behavior yesterday clearly showed you that. He is more than happy to come back, and be with you, if you never make an issue of his A, talk about his A, and certainly never share the pain that you have been put in.

I am so angry for you. He keeps giving you just enough to make you think he migh actually get it, and the he mind fucks you every time. Personally I say go file. He doesn't want to go into debt to go to counseling? What a lame excuse, does he realize how much a divorce is going to cost him? Other than his home, his wife, and his family?

His pride is getting in the way. Perhaps something like being served will wake him up, but even if it doesn't you deserve so much more than he is giving you.

180 - 180 - 180 - 180

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8598 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's nothing any of us can tell you that will permit you to be comfortable with a husband that jeopardized your marriage, threatened your health, your unborn baby's health, and is unremorseful and unempathetic.

Just as his choices to have an affair were selfish and deprived you of caring, compassion, and support, particularly while pregnant and with a new born, so too his choices now are selfish. He.is.selfish. He wants what he wants, for himself, when he wants it. He is not willing to be uncomfortable and entirely willing to have you writhe in pain so that he doesn't have to experience discomfort.

These deficits are his and are the reasons he permitted himself the affair and trickle truth, etc. Unless he deals with his deficits and replaces them, consistently, with the qualities of a faithful, remorseful and empathetic husband MC is premature.

There is no leading him down the faithful husband's path, this he as to do for himself, or not. Your evidence of where he is at are his actions. Lies by omission (which we sugar coat and call trickle truth) badgering you rather than dealing with his issues of selfishness, hollering FU, hiding behind money and work rather than deal with his issues (he found time for the affair) are YOUR evidence of his attitude and intentions. yes, his intentions.

By his behavior you can tell that he intends for you to shut up, and put up, period. Everything else will be met with disdain, deflecting anger and manipulation.

Let go of HIS outcome and your answers will become clear. This will require that you distance yourself from your pain. I think you are very strong, but you are letting your hope for a faithful husband cloud your obsevations. Give him over to his creator, with your best heart, and focus on your healing. He either will choose to follow a faithful husband's path, or not. It takes two to form a faithful marriage.

In closing, give your pain over to the past and move into YOUR healing.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why then does he come back to check on me? I told him to leave & did not go after him. Why does he call and text begging me to stop ignoring him and he has a question for me? Why does he sound so sad and say thing like " I dont know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."

Because he is manipulating you.

Do not go to MC. Your WH is not healthy enough to learn how to have a functional intimate relationship.

Here is an article about manipulation in relationships: http://lifeesteem.org/wellness/wellness_manipulation.html

Paraphrased from the article:

Focus on changing yourself, not the manipulator. You will not change a manipulator by trying to get them to understand what they are doing to you. You may think that it would be helpful to share with the manipulator how you feel and how his or her behavior has an impact on you - but this is generally not helpful since most manipulators are not capable of empathy and may use this information against you in the future.

The only effective method of changing manipulative behavior is to disable it by making a change within yourself.

I think you need IC for support and to learn how to disable his bullying.

Two helpful books for my H (who was easily manipulated do to his crappy childhood) were: Who's Pulling Your Strings and In Sheep's Clothing.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stastic, you posted that you feel you have spent your ,marriage trying not to take responsibility for your husband's anger.

Now, seeing that in print it would seem obvious to us onlookers that one cannot take responsibility for another person's behavior, and reactions. However, to you who is up close and personal with his anger, you only see the raging gorilla in front of you blocking out a stressfree relationship. You've learned that if you give in to quiet the raging monster life will be easier and the angry monster will become smaller. So, you struggle from doing the right thing (which is letting a grown person deal with the consequences of their own behavior) versus doing the easier thing ( which is to quiet the monster so life is more how you hoped it would be).

Anger is one of the tools your husband is using to manipulate you. Why? Because it has worked, for him. I suspect, however, that it has caused resentment, for you, even before you knew about his affair(s).

If you step back and answer your own questions about why he does anything by observing what that particular behavior has won for him in the past you will observe that he isn't checking on you for your sake, but for his own. He is checking to see if his manipulation is working. He is checking to see if you are in a forgiving frame of mind so that HE doesn't have to feel so bad about his egregious behavior.

As was stated previously, your husband has chosen not to be emotionally mature enough to be a faithful husband. Period. Only he can fix that.

I think we often are of the attitude that we think our emotional healing means that we will think, feel and act, as we did before. However, if we take our clues on healing from the physical realm, where skin builds scars, and bones build extra calcium in order to be healed, our hearts, feelings, and attitudes will most likely be changed in healing.

No one should live attempting to manage another's anger. You seem to be coming to that realization and that means that in your healing your are changing. No amount of trying to figure your unremoseful husband out aids in his, or your, healing. Focusing on your own healing is all that changes things for you.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
Getting to Happy
♀ Member
Member # 35200
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((statistic))))


WS him
BS me DD's 26, 25' DS 23
dd1 1-1-10, dd2 Mothers Day 2011, dd3 3-12-12 Hawaii trip with ho-worker...

Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
Unknown


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: La La Land
statistic
♀ Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've not had a chance to go through your responses in detail because my little one is ill. I will as soon as my awesome sister comes to help me. I did want to say that he is trying to get in contact with me and says that he wants to spend the weekend discussing what happened because he thinks we can solve it. He said the things he said didn't mean anything because they were in anger. I've told him time and time again that even words said in anger hurt (isn't that the intention?) and I take them very seriously since I'm usually the one at the receiving end.

How do I show him that what he says, even in anger, is just as painful and wrong? I ask not with the intention of working on this, bc I'm 90% sure I need to file - the other 10% is due to fear- but because we have an infant and we have to interact for any years to come. I don't know how to get him to understand that just because things are said in anger doesn't me that they don't "count."


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the whoe anger thing is very well explained in the posts you haven't read.

As to how can you get him to understand? That is covered as well. The answer is YOU can't "get him to understand". It doesn't suit his purpose to understand.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Statistic, as I read about your last interaction with him, when he yelled at you until you got out of the car, all I could think was "He is manipulating her, and when it doesn't go his way, the real him comes out."

After he is away from you for a while, he pretends to be remorseful again. He is still in contact with OW. I think he wants to cake eat, and says the bare minimum to make you hopeful. He would stay with you, like the others said, if you never mention the A, whether what happened in the past, and how you felt or feel as a result. If you tolerated it, he would continue the A, guaranteed.

He is abusive, using anger to subdue and control you. You aren't 100% under his control anymore, since you found out about the A, and you are seriously considering whether you want to stay in the M anymore. He is losing control over you, and he knows it. When you get tired of his manipulation he will have to A. take responsibility for it, and decide whether he wants to keep his M and work on himself, or B. decide he would rather stay the same and lose the M. If he chooses plan A, things will slowly get better for you (not for him, for a long time.) If he choses plan B, he will most certainly lash out at you more than he ever has.

I think you need to read up on the 180 and use it until you have decided what you want to do regarding staying in the M.

Regarding your staying in the M because you have one child together. Imagine how difficult and trapped you will be if you have 2, 3, or 4? Ending a M becomes exponentially more difficult the more children you have. End the M now, if that is your gut feeling, because that feeling is not going to go away unless your H does a complete turnaround. He doesn't sound like he is in the mindset to fully cooperate with the hard work of R at this point.

Something your H doesn't get, is that you, You, YOU, are it the driver's seat, when it comes to what you need him to do to R. He doesn't like you asking Q's? Too bad. He doesn't like your moods? Too bad. He doesn't like that you told OW's H? Too bad. He is afraid you will tell everyone? DO IT!!! Let him bear all the brunt for what he did. If he is not 100% remorseful, bearing all the blame, shunning, whatever comes of his behavior, then he is not R material.

(((((statistic)))))


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
alphakitte
♀ Member
Member # 33438
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

that he wants to spend the weekend discussing what happened

Isn't his family going to be in town? If so, thar ya go - he doesn't want them knowing all that's going on, so you should suffer through appearances so, once again, he doesn't experience discomfort, or consequences.


------ Some people are emotional tadpoles. Even if they mature they are just a warty toad. Catt

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: 3 klicks north of Ambiguous
myowndystopia
♀ Member
Member # 41340
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm too new at this to offer much but

Thankful you have a sister that you can count on to be there for you........


Me- BS
Him - WS (the Grub)
married 28 years/4 kids(mostly grown)

"'Cause there's a side to you that I never knew, never knew.
All the things you'd say, they were never true, never true "
Set Fire to the Rain
Adele


Posts: 408 | Registered: Nov 2013
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's when he lost it and told me to go ahead and file, I don't need you, you are torturing me on purpose to make me pay, and told me Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you again and dropped me off. I started to cry & stopped listening to his yelling. When I started to cry, I remember him saying "see, is this what you wanted? This is what you get."

Why then does he come back to check on me? I told him to leave & did not go after him. Why does he call and text begging me to stop ignoring him and he has a question for me? Why does he sound so sad and say thing like " I font know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."


File.

He doesn't get to tell you what you need or don't need. And he sure as hell doesn't get to throw a *mantrum* when you act in a manner that *he* deems unacceptable. THAT is a major red flag that he is unremorseful. And as you know, you cannot have a true R with an unremorseful spouse.

He acts like an abusive asshole -- showing his *true* colors. And then he knows that he needs to *reel you back in*. Except that he uses the *victim* card to do that.

" I dont know why things have to be like they were today. I can't believe it's over."

Do you see that HE is causing the problem and then comes back, shrugging his shoulders, acting all *what the hell just happened?"

He doesn't want to understand anything. He knows. You can bet your bottom dollar that HE would be the first one to scream *foul* if YOU spoke to him in that manner.

He's not *getting it*....he's just trying to keep you in line and at his beck and call.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8034 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
statistic
♀ Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He keeps giving you just enough to make you think he migh actually get it, and the he mind fucks you every time

Yes, Tushnurse, this is what happens time and time again. I keep thinking each time will be the last. I accept his apology each and every time. I actually feel guilty if I do not accept his apology and engage with him again because it feels like I am not being fair. He apologized, so I should forgive him. I will regret it later if I do not forgive because I had the chance to save this marriage and I gave it up. This is what I am afraid of...among a million other things.

I think you are very strong, but you are letting your hope for a faithful husband cloud your obsevations.


Alphakitte - Yes, I am hanging onto hope. Not of what he is showing me on a consistent basis, but of what he could be. The sick part is that I am not sure I can forgive him. When I am honest with myself, his affair is a deal breaker for me. I am terrified of what this means though - divorce, single mom with an infant, loss of financial security, loneliness, losing him etc. I guess the scared part of me wishes he would do something to make it easier to stay, but he can only do this for so long.

Sailorgirl- thank you for the references. I am reading them this morning. I spend an enormous amount of time and energy trying to "get him to understand." I truly believed that he would alter his behavior if he only understood what it is doing to me. This is a belief I continue to struggle with because it has worked in the past, but not for very long.

((Getting to Happy))

HurtButHopeful - I do walk away feeling from our arguments feelings like I've been spun around and twisted. It reminds me of when we spin someone around before they hit a piņata. I feel like that person - lost my sense of direction, don't know up from down, but I am swinging like hell to catch on to something, anything to get my bearings back. I wonder if he maintains contact with the OW. I doubt it, but I have been very, very wrong in the past.

Myowndystopia _ I am lucky to have my sister to help with my daughter because right now I am not the mom I need to be. I am often sad, angry, or scared which makes its hard to always be happy around her.

Gonnabe2016- I didn't see it that way...using the victim card to reel me back in. That is probably why I find it so confusing. When I ask him about it, he says he knows he overreacted, is sorry, and that this is a very difficult time for us both, so its easier to set him off. Today he is apologetic and wanted to "talk." He has left messages or texts saying we can solve this and he will do anything to fix this. But I have heard this before. I will ask for some distance because I cannot see clearly any longer.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
Edith
♀ Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Stat,

says that he wants to spend the weekend discussing what happened

I truly hope you will not do this. I believe it will only prolong your pain. I would 180 this guy and not give in to his guilt trips.

Understanding needs to come from HIM. You cannot explain things to him. Sounds like he has a problem listening, among others. I agree with others, filing is probably your best option.

Sending hugs your way. Take care.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 385 | Registered: Feb 2013
statistic
♀ Member
Member # 39192
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow!! WS visited my daughter today. I went to run an errand and left my phone at home by mistake. I didn't return for it because I didn't think it a big deal. I look at my phone just now and all text conversations between WS and I are gone. He said he doesn't want me to read them and have bad memories. I say he is afraid these texts would be used against him somehow. He only reminds me of the fact that I cannot trust him and/or he doesn't trust me. He is probably trying to work this out for his own benefit, not ours as a couple. The hits keep coming and I wish they would kill every last feeling I have for him and make this hurt just a little less...


Truth waits for eyes unclouded by longing.

~~Tao Te Ching


Posts: 152 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, yippee! You are dealing with a *disappearer*. Make the evidence *go away* and it didn't happen, right?

Right now....as soon as you are done reading this sentence....download the app on your phone that exports your texts to your email. There are a couple of different ones, but just pick one and do it.

Then. Passcode ALL of your electronics with a code that he will never guess in a million years. Use your first boyfriend's birthday or the street number of the house you first lived in...whatever. Just do it.

I didn't see it that way...using the victim card to reel me back in. That is probably why I find it so confusing.

And now that I've introduced the topic...you're gonna see it in spades.

When I ask him about it, he says he knows he overreacted, is sorry, and that this is a very difficult time for us both

(I really wish that I could *double-bold* because.....) ^^^^^THAT is some of the *victim* shit that I alluded to. "It is a difficult time for us both* Really????? *He* brought his *difficult* time on HIMSELF. Don't be a cheater and life would be just fine, right? He doesn't get to pull this crap on you, Stat.

If he keeps *hitting* you in this way, your hurt is going to turn to some serious anger and all of that hurt that you feel is going to be something that you'll work out later.

Be.Done.With.Him. He is NOT remorseful.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8034 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
mystified1970
♀ Member
Member # 36291
Concerned  Posted: 11:23 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband convinced me for the past year that he was not unfaithful. Instead I was made to feel like I was a lunatic. He denied.

This was my life for more than 10 years. My instincts were right...I was just too afraid to follow up on my feeling. Now that I am trusting my instincts, the truth is coming out....slowly and painfully, but it's coming out.


heavy sigh

Posts: 83 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Asia
PedNurse
♀ New Member
Member # 41123
Default  Posted: 3:42 AM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He said the things he said didn't mean anything because they were in anger. I've told him time and time again that even words said in anger hurt (isn't that the intention?) and I take them very seriously since I'm usually the one at the receiving end.

I really want to share with you a quote that I found a few weeks after I found out that I was being cheated on.

"Listen to what people say when they're mad, that's when the truth comes out".

I hate hearing "I didn't mean it, I was mad". No, you meant it - the anger is what made you brave enough to say it.

Similar to your situation - I knew something was going on months before I found proof. And when I asked about her (our "friend"), I got - "Fuck no! God no! What have I done to make you think that. " And I took it. I felt like I was the crazy woman. That I was the one that needed to be fixed. Only to find out 2.5 weeks after that explanation that he was and had been cheating on me. Those last weeks of our relationship were toxic. He went from being passive aggressive to being straight up mean. The night before I found out - I was comforting him on our couch. He was sobbing - like snot coming out of his nose hysterics. Telling me he was "afraid that he was losing me" and that I was "the closest person in his life the past 3 years". I was his "best friend". Turned out he doesn't treat his friends too well. The OW was married - to his friend of 15 years. And he didn't think he was in the wrong. It didn't phase him that we knew the OW through his friend. Or that we witnessed their marriage vows.

But I digress. His words spoken out of anger show what he thinks and where he stands. I am still new here, but from what I see, for R to happen - total transparency is a requirement of the WS.

I am almost 8 months from my DDay, and I feel for you. March & April of 2013 were the worst months of my life. My heart goes out to you. I wish for you peace.

And to everyone who has posted on this thread -thank you. I just found this thread tonight and have read everything - it's almost 0500 where I am. Your responses have been like therapy to me. It has been a very difficult week for me filled with triggers. I am beginning to think that those who have compared dealing with infidelity and betrayal to PTSD are spot on. Much respect to you all.


I lost my love, best friend, home, and a future all in a matter of weeks.

Posts: 2 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: United States
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