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User Topic: t/j making judgments; helpful or harmful?
LostAngry
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Member # 40808
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have noticed a few threads dealing directly and indirectly with judging others.

It is helpful or harmful not only to this community, society at large and our individual selves to judge people? I have read that some are hurt by being judged in what they feel is an unfair way. I have also read in S/D that some believe APs and WS are not judged enough by the communities in which they live.

How should we handle judging others? If I know a friend is a cheater or has in the past should they be ostracized? What about family? If my cousin cheats should he/she no longer be invited to family events if my other cousin is a BS and it could be triggery for him?

If people are living a life outside of societal norms; it is acceptable to make a judgment or state it is Ok that they live a certain way but admit you would not be friends IRL? Is that in and of itself a judgment?

When is judging acceptable and when is it harmful? Is it acceptable to judge a person's entire character based upon their fidelity/infidelity status?

As you can tell, I am obsessed with how I have been judging those around me.


"How People treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours"
Wayne Dyer

Posts: 90 | Registered: Sep 2013
Sad in AZ
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Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I pretty much abide by the live and let live principle. I don't care what others think of me, and I either like or dislike people. I guess that's me being judgmental, but it works for me.

I don't care about 'societal norms'. What is that anyway? People judge base on their religious/political/ethnobiological views--and everyone is different. Some prefer to look at life as black & white/good & bad. Others only see shades of grey. Like I said, to each his own.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 19815 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
Missymomma
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Member # 36988
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I tend to think that making judgments about people means I think I am better than them. I don't think I am better than anyone else. However, I have the right and need to be healthy. For me, this means not associating with people that don't live a healthy lifestyle. I don't hangout with those using drugs, committing crimes, abusing alcohol, cheating on their spouses or living in other ways that I find to be unhealthy. If they feel judged by that, it really isn't my concern. I used to be way too open minded and eventually realized that caring for myself over others is actually a healthy way to live.

Example, you have a friend that uses drugs. You don't want to judge them and let them come over to your house. Unbeknownst to you, they have a large quantity of drugs on them. The police raid your house and throw you in jail, also. The drugs were on your property. In this kind of instance, having the judgment that not hanging around someone that uses drugs is actually a healthy choice.


DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

Posts: 1084 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Texas
sullymeishadomi
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Member # 16305
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny, in a round about way I touched on this in ot.

What I tell people and what I want to tell my kids is live your life so that you have few regrets. Try not to **purposely** hurt others or yourself (wifh malice )Accept people for their heart not the color of their skin, thickness of their wallet, their appearance or beliefs.

Have **your** opinions, not those of anyone else and stand by them even if unpopular. You can disagree with anothers but respect anothers opinion if it has thought behind it and even if it differs from your own.

***********
We forget compassion.
We forget sometimes there is more tban one point of view.
We forget sometimes there is no right from wrong.
We get so hurt, our pain so intense we become so ridgid and expect the world to live in that same ridgid manner.

We forget compassion, acceptance,kindness, individuality and how strong and blinding pain and anger can render us. It can prevent us from hearing or offering a kind word.

This may or may not make sense to anyone, but it does to me. Now im going to bed. Good night all.

[This message edited by sullymeishadomi at 9:30 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]


People tell you exactly who they are...why expect them to be what they are not

Posts: 8210 | Registered: Sep 2007
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

judg·ment noun \ˈjəj-mənt: an opinion or decision that is based on careful thought

: the act or process of forming an opinion or making a decision after careful thought : the act of judging something or someone

: the ability to make good decisions about what should be done


This is one dictionary's definition of the word. We make judgments every day. You have to figure out what is right for you. What makes you authentic.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9418 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
sullymeishadomi
♀ Member
Member # 16305
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok I bed will wait a few more minutes.

Those who cheat (ws/ap) are both breaking a moral code and hurting others.

The reason an ap and ws are not more harshly judged is societies moral code has changed. Im constantly told irl nobody gives a shit. Everyone does it.

If I had a cheating relative would I socialise with that person. Some on her remember two yrs ago about me posting about my friend the mow having an mm. She climbed into bed between idiot and I and cuddlex with him. Add to that she didnt see what she did as wrong. Would I be more cautious in letting an active cheater in my house (not counting the one I have, aka, idiot boy)? Yes. Are all ap's and ws' created equal? No. There is a big difference between a fap or fws and an active one. I would associate with one who is former, remorseful who would never do it again.

In regards to friending someone outside the social norm? I will use our poly relationship friend who just left us. I may not understand (I dont mean disagree) his relationahip style, but whatever floats his boat. My decision to friend him would be based on his character and if we were compatable friendwise.

Would I associate with a drug dealer or criminal? No. Myself and my kids could be hurt. (Again, the dont purposely hurt yourself or anyone else rule).

I think judging is acceptable when you try to keep yourself or loved ones out of harms way. Judging is hurtful when it is against someone that is different but not in a way that causes harm.

Can you judge a cheaters character by thejr actions. Idiot and his ap appear nice, kind, outgoing, friendly etc (to the outside world). What they are doing is blatantly immoral and causing pain. They are selfish in their actions. So, yes, their status as a ws and ap are their character...to me. To others, the fact they cheat is insignificant. To others idiot and ap are wonderful people. I was the one hurt, not their friends or aquaintances.

[This message edited by sullymeishadomi at 10:00 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]


People tell you exactly who they are...why expect them to be what they are not

Posts: 8210 | Registered: Sep 2007
gonnabe2016
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Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, September 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think judging is acceptable when you try to keep yourself or loved ones out of harms way. Judging is hurtful when it is against someone that is different but not in a way that causes harm

I agree with this.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7707 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
refuz2bavictim
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Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 4:07 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Judging BEHAVIOR and situations is perfectly acceptable and keeps us safe.

I also think people forget that judgment goes both ways. It's an assessment, that can be both negative and positive. The term has a negative connotation and that becomes part of the problem.

If I like something I have judged it to be a preference.
If I dislike something I have judged it to be something I want to avoid.

Sometimes people aren't complaining about actual "judgment", they are complaining about how the negative judgments make them feel. If you were to make a positive judgment about the exact same topic, or if my judgment is in agreement with theirs, you wouldn't hear a peep.

I think we get into trouble when we start judging the person, not the behavior. I know that my judgments are not on the person/soul, but the actions, I love or condemn with all of my heart.

I will distance myself from a person while they are actively engaged in infidelity, which includes them continuing to defend any destructive behaviors or mindsets associated with it.

It's safe for me. And believe it or not it makes me safe for them. That prevents me from unwittingly encouraging more of that behavior.

I find it interesting that I have been called "judgmental" by more people than I care to count.

I doubt it's a mistake that all of these people all have one thing in common, really poor boundaries. They have no respect for mine, and have amoebic boundaries of their own.

And there is no arguing with them about it. They are absolutely convinced that any disapproval of their behavior, constitutes some worldly condemnation by me, of them as human beings.

They are unaware of the inner-workings of my heart and they do not know that I don't presume to sit in" judgment" on their soul. I am, in fact open to them as people, but I am not willing to be with them when they are engaging in activities that are destructive. That is my personal boundary.

I believe they take my disapproval of their actions, and use it to judge and condemn themselves, and then declare "me" the perpetrator. It would be easier that way I guess...to be the victim of someone else's judgment. That would certainly prevent any incentive to change the behavior.


On the opposite end
I have a few (well 2) healthy friends, who are comfortable processing my thoughts about their behavior. They don't hang the entirety of *who* they are, on my assessment, or even their own. They are grateful for feedback, they evaluate it and we might even get into some kind of debate about it. I like their feedback. It helps me. I am grateful for it.


Judgment only bothers me when I internalize it inappropriately.

Ultimately I think it's helpful...even when I am temporarily bothered by it. That usually means I have something to work on.

I am fortunate to have people (who I don't have to pay)that are brave enough to share their thoughts with me.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
Bobbi_sue
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Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 4:27 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is impossible not to make some kinds of judgments about people, even if you are judging somebody for being "judgmental."


Posts: 5685 | Registered: Apr 2006
sullymeishadomi
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Member # 16305
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Refuse, I very much like your post.

I have a couple of friends I can do what you describe. To me it falls under the having respect for others opinion if different from your own.

I argue the dictionaries discription. Many judgements are NOT thought out.Which leads me to pick apart something in my own post. The one Gonna copied.

There are people who believe certain things will cause them harm based on the unknown or preconceptions without the full story or wanting to know the full story.

Ive rewritten this post several times. Lol.

Anyway, let me give myself and then a deceased friend as an example.

Me. I look normal. Well, now I look dumpy, but we are not going there right now. I never dressed hoochie. I was self conscious around males because I felt no "boy" (now men) would like me because I was fat and ugly. I was self conscious because egg donar was a ho and I didnt want to be a ho like her.

When I was 19 I moved where my paternal family lived. Immediately I was seen as a replica of egg donar. I was a ho. According to my aunt, I used sex as manipulation.

Truth? I had my first bf at age 22. My first sexual experience. Counting this guy all the way up to my h, ive only had 4 bf's anx they were my only sexual experiences.

I was accused of stealing my grandfathers watch and giving it to that first bf. I did no such thing. When the watch was found in the house its because I had another aunt sneak it into that one aunts house. I did no such thing. The watch was always there but I was vilified on my aunts word.

This is dangerous because I could have been legally charged (and she did try...I was across the country at the time). I still struggle wifh those perceptions of me because my self conscious fool self internalised it. This side of the family still will not accept me based on the false accusations based not on me but the egg donar.

My now deceased exboss friend appeared a full out Hells Angels by appearance. It would be wise to stay away because Hells Angels are bad, right. Well, this man was a health conscious, yoga/meditating, book loving upstanding man who dated a local judge.

Here is another example: I know people who bought Kia's when they first came out. They were a piece of crap back then so when I was appraoched about buying a kia I immediately said, no they are junk cars. I was informed that the kia's have changed and are good cars. Would I now consider buyinga kia or would I respect what I was told and buy that hyundai I drool over?

[This message edited by sullymeishadomi at 8:00 AM, September 30th (Monday)]


People tell you exactly who they are...why expect them to be what they are not

Posts: 8210 | Registered: Sep 2007
WhatsRight
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Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I say, "Hate the sin, love the sinner."

(I do, however, realize that sometimes the two are indistinguishable).


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1858 | Registered: Apr 2012
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO we all make judgements, it's the condemnations we should be mindful of.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7370 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
overandone
Member
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If someone has an open relationship/marriage,whereby they are happy for them or their spouses/partners to have relationships or sleep with other people,and it's all above board,out in the open and nobody gets hurt, I would not judge them. It's not how i want to live, but it's their choice, nothing to do with me and I have no right to tell them how to live their lives.

Do I have the right to judge fWH and fOW for their behaviour? Absolutely I do.The lying, cheating and general disrespect shown to their respective partners and the hurt caused to both BS is wrong, period. Just wrong. Yes I judge it to be wrong.

Since d-day I saw, and still see fWH's sorrow and remorse (in tears numerous times, and general sadness when he realised how badly fOW's H and I were hurt).I saw and still see that he realised what an awful thing he had done, not just that he was found out and all the repercussions from the truth coming out to myself and fOW's H, but it was an intrinsically bad thing to do.I see how he is doing anything and everything to make amends.

And I see the complete lack of remorse or apology from fOW either to myself or her husband during the affair or after d-day, and the blameshifting she still continues to indulge in. She made strenuous efforts to restart the affair(to no avail) after my H put a stop to it,months before I knew what had been going on. Even, I realised in hindsight, trying to arrange to see him in front of me and her H, and making snide, inexplicable comments to me which I dismissed as just more of her generally whacky behaviour and I didn't think it worth the effort of replying.

So i feel entitled to judge her as a lesser person than myself,her husband and my husband. For which I make no apology.


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 207 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
HurtButHopeful?
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Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

judg·ment noun \ˈjəj-mənt: an opinion or decision that is based on careful thought
: the act or process of forming an opinion or making a decision after careful thought : the act of judging something or someone

: the ability to make good decisions about what should be done

If this is in fact the definition of judgement, then I have to agree with it. If I don't like the definition, then I have to create a different word, and also it's definition. You can't redefine an already existing word without committing intellectual dishonesty.

In answer to your questions, I believe making judgements is part of informed and healthy living.

judgement: there are two routes between my home and the supermarket. One is full of pot holes and could damage our vehicle. The other is paved. I take the paved route because I don't want to damage my car.

Regarding friendships, it is wise to assess people along with their morals and behaviors, considering their potential impact on our lives before we proceed.

eta: potential

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 11:18 AM, September 30th (Monday)]


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
Card
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Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ecclesiastes 3:16-17 And I saw something else under the sun:

In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
in the place of justice—wickedness was there.
I said to myself,

“God will bring into judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time to judge every deed.”


We vote for and appoint Judges throughout this country.
To JUDGE.

We pull together Jurors in courtrooms every day throughout this country.
To JUDGE.

There is WISDOM in Judging People, Places and Things.

Is it acceptable to judge a person's entire character based upon their fidelity/infidelity status?

IMNSHO, Yes!

Why wouldn't it be acceptable?

Is it acceptable for me to willingly commit a crime and not accept the consequences (and even the label) that come with it?


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
LostAngry
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Member # 40808
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ecclesiastes 3:16-17 And I saw something else under the sun:
In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
in the place of justice—wickedness was there.
I said to myself,

“God will bring into judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time to judge every deed.”

Matthew 7:1-3 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and [a]by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

I am no biblical scholar, but if one were to read those passages of scripture it would seem as though God is reserving judgment for Himself. For me, that is neither here nor there.

Is it acceptable to judge a person's entire character based upon their fidelity/infidelity status?

IMNSHO, Yes!

Why wouldn't it be acceptable?

Is it acceptable for me to willingly commit a crime and not accept the consequences (and even the label) that come with it?

I do not believe committing a crime of theft speaks to the entire character of a person. I would not leave my purse with them, but I would not base their entire character on that one act. Should they be held responsible, absolutely! Does it mean they have no redeeming qualities, absolutely not!

The different perceptions and opinions are great, thank you all, and keep them coming.


"How People treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours"
Wayne Dyer

Posts: 90 | Registered: Sep 2013
HurtButHopeful?
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Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not believe committing a crime of theft speaks to the entire character of a person. I would not leave my purse with them,
So you're saying you would not trust a former thief with your purse, but you would trust an adulterer with your spouse, or your former wayward spouse with your best friend?

All this sounds inconsistent. Being wise is not the same thing as condemning someone to burn in hell. It would be wise to not leave one's purse with a thief. It would be wise not to hire a former adulteress to babysit, and then ask your spouse to drive her home late at night.

edited to fix typos/spelling

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 4:16 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
LostAngry
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Member # 40808
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I said no such thing, and if you read my post I said quite the opposite. I do not believe a thief should be trusted with valuables. I, therefore, I would not trust my husband with a known cheater. The question is, does the one act or one flaw in their character make it acceptable to judge their ENTIRE character based on the one act or flaw.

If a marriage therapist is divorced does that speak to their ability to counsel couples? If a lawyer cheats on his taxes does that make him less capable of representing his clients and doing what is right in the face of justice?

If a person does good in 90% of their life and then is discovered to be an AP, does that one thing negate any and all good they have done?


"How People treat you is their Karma. How you react is yours"
Wayne Dyer

Posts: 90 | Registered: Sep 2013
sullymeishadomi
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Member # 16305
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So based on that thought, if someone was good 90% of their life (belped out at shelters, gave the shirt off their back) but calously stabbed to death a merchant in themidst of a robbery, that person shouldnt be labeled a bad person? Im sorry, but I disagree. If one knowingly and selfishly causes malas to another person, j do not see that person as a good person.

Wh ap last yr loaned him the money to move into this house as well as the money for his lawn mower (im not totally sure on that last one bc it makes more sense then his coworker loaning him money). 6 yrs ago she paid for the moving truck, the food for wh famy that day, the down payment on the apt, physically helped move us in (I was in the hospital) and even put together my kitchen (set up made no sense). Would you consider her a nice person?

They both lied to me for years. Wh not only cheated on me, but verbally and emotionally abused me. But because they are nice people otherwise, they shouldnt be labeled negatively for what they did to me?

I did forgive them the first year when they swore it was over. Too many selfish lies for me to think they are good people.

[This message edited by sullymeishadomi at 6:25 PM, September 30th (Monday)]


People tell you exactly who they are...why expect them to be what they are not

Posts: 8210 | Registered: Sep 2007
selkiescot
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Member # 23777
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, September 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All of us have been through the various stages of grief and anger. Sometimes many times in day. I know some days it's difficult for me to be patient wth JFO's when we have all been there done that so damn many times. We see through the excuses, through the textbook WS's and want them to protect them from the pain by rushing them through the process. We "experienced" battered ones know that the newly wounded all need to go through all the steps to heal themselves. Sometimes I think we know exactly what will happen when someone is beng emtionally abused and they make excuses for their partner over and over again.
I know I have become frustrated by those excuses and I also know i am just as guilty for making those same excuses for my WH.
I also know the absolute fury you feel when you hit the anger stage. I have lashed out at people on here, my DD, my boss and my sick mother. All because my heart was crushed and I hit the anger stage. So maybe we should take a step back and be more patient with each other. We are supposed to be here to help not hurt.
There are days when I just can't go to the JFO's and hear another story of betrayal. There are days when I am much stronger and can deal with the raw emtotions of JFO. When I can say the same thing over and over. Read the healing library. 180, see a lawyer get tested for stds.
I don't think anyone here would hurt someone intentionally. Sometimes hearing the truth really does hurt. Accepting it hurts even more.
If I have been impatient or unkind to anyone I am profoundly sorry.


The truth shall set you free or reveal the name of the OW!
ME 57
WH 64
DDAYs TOO MANY
daughter 27
You give me gifts! I don't want your gifts I want the truth. That's the greatest gift.

Posts: 1377 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: CT
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