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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: More lies
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why in the heck was all that you describe acceptable -good enough - for you?

Obviously the stuff that I know now isn't good enough for me. I was talking about before he made the decision to cheat on me.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2013
Thessalian
♀ Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 5:58 AM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your situation sounds exactly like the start of my discovery process. I thought exactly the things you're thinking and my WH behaved just the way your WBF is behaving. Same thing too with the "he acts like such a good guy" in public, but does all these secret things he'd be judged pretty harshly for if they came out. He really couldn't handle facing up to what he was doing because it would mean confronting the fact that he wasn't being a great person, and his ego wouldn't entertain that thought.

For a while after dday, I would give him "safe spaces" to confess all. WH would tell me maybe one more thing I didn't know, mixed in with more lies, then I'd interrogate him over details, he'd lie some more. The next time we talked, after asking him for the 50th time "what else is there?", he'd confess to lies told the last time, and follow with MORE lies, and it just got insane. Worse, he'd do the same thing your WBF is doing, spinning me lots of pretty nonsense about how he was starting to understand the consequences of lying, and how he wanted to be honest, and how he'd really been thinking a lot about the nature of truth and integrity, that we were going to move forward with total honesty, blah blah blah. Then more lies would come out and I couldn't believe that someone, someone I loved and knew, could be so cruel. Every time we went through this process, I threatened him with increasingly scary outcomes of his continued lying. I would move out. If I found out about any more of this, I would tell his mother. I always followed through, but absolutely nothing worked, his ego was too strong and he was just not getting it.

I can't tell you how many times I heard "I've told you everything", only to have more weird details come out in bits and pieces next time.

So tonight when we're talking, he said that he confessed everything today because I told him it was safe to confess. And by me saying I wanted to be alone now, he feels like he did the wrong thing by confessing. That he should have kept his mouth shut. That he did it voluntarily because he reached a turning point, and now I'm saying I don't want him anymore.

Luckily, my WH was never stupid enough to say something like this to me, but I actually thought it to myself on a couple of occasions. I thought "If I flip out every time he confesses something else, he'll stop doing it. Why does he lie and then confess something a week later? Why not just tell the whole truth now?"

The thing is, I realized, is that he not only needs to be man enough to confess, he needs to understand that a confession does not mean I won't be upset or that there won't be consequences for confessing. He just need to be brave enough, and have enough integrity and self-respect, and love himself and me enough, to confess anyway. He needs to understand that a confession on his OWN DETERMINATION is a hundred times better than a confession during a marathon "what aren't you telling me?" session. And even if he confesses the "right way", if you decide to leave him over what he says, that's your choice. It doesn't mean he did wrong by telling you. Saying something like that means he's only weighing the consequences to himself - he's not weighing the devastating effect his behavior is having on you.

I'm not saying this is the same in your case at all, but with my WH, it turned out that he was lying and lying and lying because there was a whole other set of affairs I hadn't learned about yet, and probably never would have. When people lie about minute details like that, I feel that it's because they are trying to tell just enough of the truth that they don't have to face the full magnitude of who they are and what they've done.

I'm lucky. My WH finally manned up and told me everything, and what came out were a lot of things that didn't even have to do with the affair, but were other bad things he'd done to me and others of a similar nature, and some darkness in himself he'd been repressing. After that, the lying stopped completely. I haven't learned about a new lie since that point, and he actively volunteers information to me now. When I do have a question about something, he answers it completely. When he told me finally, it was very clear I'd gotten the whole truth.

Your WBF has done a ton of disgusting, dishonorable stuff. But that doesn't make him a bad person. What makes him a bad person is the continuation of his deceitful behavior now, and his refusal to man up when the chips are down - how long does he intend to perpetuate that sickness? He has a very small window in which to scrape himself off the floor and make things right while still (maybe) having you in his life. If he has any interest in restoring his own self-respect, and your respect for him, he needs to have the courage to lay all of his ugliness on the ground before you, and ask you to love him anyway. That includes the ugliness of his cheating and lying, the ugliness about other things he may be covering up, weather those be of a sexual or emotional nature that seem "unrelated" to the affair, and any other darkness he's shoving down within himself. You may choose to walk at that point, sure. But if you walk you'll walk respecting him for having the courage at least to do the right thing. If he doesn't, odds are you'll walk anyway, and you'll do it thinking the worst of him (and he'll deserve it). If he tells the truth and you feel you can move forward from there, rebuilding is then possible. But not until he knocks this stuff the heck off.

In the meantime, until he really lets all his dirty laundry out, I would recommend that you assume he's still lying. Ask yourself questions like:

- Does he initiate conversations about this, or do you do all the initiating?

- Does he only ever answer questions you directly pose to him, never expanding on the details unless pressed?

- Does he seem focused on you completely, instead of trying to balance your pain with his own? When someone has everything out, they can completely focus on helping you through this and not protecting themselves and their own bull, because they're confident that they've come clean.

- When you ask him questions, does he take care only to answer the specific question you asked, without expanding on the situation? Does he specifically word things in a way that could be nebulous?

Huge hugs and strength to you. I hope your WBF gets it together!

[This message edited by Thessalian at 6:01 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 161 | Registered: Sep 2013
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thessalian-- Wow. Reading your post made me feel like I was reading my own story. Thank you for taking time to respond and share it with me.

After I asked for a month of NC, he sent me a lot of emails with more lies. I guess he figured that he didn't have anything to lose at that point. And yeah, a lot of them were not A related, like he admitted that he had smoked pot while we were dating. I'm an attorney, and I've always made it very clear to him that I am NOT okay with drugs of any sort. So he knew that would be a big confession too I'm guessing.

Like you, I kept saying consequences of him lying. However, I wasn't really enforcing the consequences. This is the first time I've enforced a boundary that I've set. Other than the first set of emails he sent me, he's respected my boundary and not contacted me. Of course I keep reading those first emails though. It sounds like he reached a "turning point," but there's been so many other times that I thought that in the past. So I don't trust my own judgment anymore. I'm just going 30 days NC, and then I'll try talking to him again.

Thanks for the list of questions at the bottom of your post. I definitely understand the stuff about only answering the direct question. As an example, he told me that he didn't apply for a job when I asked if he had applied. Later, I found where he had emailed his resume and letter of recommendation. So I asked him about it, and he swore he hadn't lied because he didn't consider a resume applying. Apparently there was some difference between "application" and "resume." That makes me feel crazy. Any normal person would know the meaning behind my question, and just fully expand on the answer and tell me about the resume. I don't want to ask a question 100 different ways to make sure I get the truth.

He had scheduled our first MC appointment today. I'm hoping that he still goes to it, even though I'm not going.

Your WBF has done a ton of disgusting, dishonorable stuff. But that doesn't make him a bad person. What makes him a bad person is the continuation of his deceitful behavior now, and his refusal to man up when the chips are down - how long does he intend to perpetuate that sickness?

This is what I kept telling him. If he had admitted everything to me the first day, I could have forgiven him. I've made mistakes in my past too, so I can be understanding about him making mistakes. I don't think that him making mistakes makes him a bad person. But all the lies slowly broke our relationship. And broke me, because I can't imagine ever trusting anything that anyone says to me.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 7:21 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2013
Thessalian
♀ Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 2:41 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That makes me feel crazy. Any normal person would know the meaning behind my question, and just fully expand on the answer and tell me about the resume.

Ugh! Just reading that makes me want to scream. There was so much of that with my WH. How many different ways do I have to phrase this? It's as if he was thinking, "Well... she used the word 'jam' not the word 'marmalade' so I'm not LYING exactly..."

Of course anyone having a rational conversation would know what you meant and answer directly, or if he really believed that, he could have said, "No, I didn't apply, but I sent my resume." When WH would do this to me, I'd feel like yelling, "What are you, five years old? I have to explain the basics of how to have an honest conversation? Give me a break!" I believe I did actually yell that once.

Like you, I kept saying consequences of him lying. However, I wasn't really enforcing the consequences. This is the first time I've enforced a boundary that I've set.

I didn't get the whole truth until 2 weeks after I moved out. Even then, it was a slog to get it, and he tried several times to half-confess during that time. I just got more and more depressed until he started taking the initiative to tell me things and fix it.
I really think the key here is seeing a change in the way they act in terms of taking initiative and owning their bull.

[This message edited by Thessalian at 2:42 AM, October 7th (Monday)]


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 161 | Registered: Sep 2013
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When WH would do this to me, I'd feel like yelling, "What are you, five years old? I have to explain the basics of how to have an honest conversation? Give me a break!" I believe I did actually yell that once.

HA! Yeah, that's exactly what I felt like screaming at him. When I tried to explain that resume and application mean the same thing, he told me that I was focusing on semantics too much. I'm the one focusing on semantics? He's using semantics to avoid the truth. It ended up that he didn't tell me he submitted his resume because the job was referred to him by a friend of the affair that he had told me he wasn't in contact with anymore.

I didn't get the whole truth until 2 weeks after I moved out. Even then, it was a slog to get it, and he tried several times to half-confess during that time. I just got more and more depressed until he started taking the initiative to tell me things and fix it.

I'm hopeful that I'll finally start getting more of the truth, but I think he's so used to lying that it's just become a habit for him.

[This message edited by Lonelygirl10 at 7:09 AM, October 7th (Monday)]


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2013
sudra
♀ Member
Member # 30143
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't read every post so I apologize if it's been said already...

Very, very gently... Neither one of you is relationship material right now. He is a lying cheater. You are with him because you are afraid to be alone.

Even if he is at a turning point, which I strongly doubt, YOU are not where you need to be.

You need to know you can live without a man. And you can live without a man. Listen, I get it. I was you at the same age. I knew I had to change and I did. I went three years without dating. No sex. I furthered my education. I bought a home. I worked on developing friendships with women that were supportive and fun. I proved to myself that I could do anything I wanted by myself.

Yea, ultimately my husband cheated, but we were years into our marriage and he is truly remorseful.

You need to let this guy go. You need to work on you.

[This message edited by sudra at 9:02 AM, October 7th (Monday)]


Me (BW) (54), Him(SAWH) (57)
Married 21 years, 1 son (18), 1 stepdaughter (26)
DDay #1 January 2004
DDay #2 7-27-2010 7 month EA/PA (became "engaged" to OW before he told me he wanted a divorce)
Working on R

Posts: 1380 | Registered: Nov 2010
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even if he is at a turning point, which I strongly doubt, YOU are not where you need to be. You need to know you can live without a man. And you can live without a man. Listen, I get it. I was you at the same age. I knew I had to change and I did. I went three years without dating. No sex. I furthered my education. I bought a home. I worked on developing friendships with women that were supportive and fun. I proved to myself that I could do anything I wanted by myself.

Yeah, I know. I told him that too. I'm taking 30 days to myself of NC with him. I'm an attorney, and I have a house. But I don't have a lot of friends, and I always make decisions based on what would be best for him. In the process, I've forgotten about myself and my own needs. I'm trying to turn that around, but it's hard.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 737 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 47
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3

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