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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Question to allBS and WS
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a question to all alike.
We all are in pain we all hurt , we all cry, and we all second guess. If we are here the chances are we are wanting to reconcile, whether a WS or a BS. So What is it about the pain that is the easiest to stay in the hurt the anger. WE each have been the gift od free will, so why do we use that to stay in our minds with the pain or hurt.
You can see it all through SI that both sides feel the pain, the hurt, the anger, the sadness, the rejection, the fear.
What about the laughter you shared when your H thought you were funny cause you said the word wrong. Or your husband pretending to be a monkey as he chased you through the house and the kids laughing. What about the time you shared sitting in front of the fire in the garage with a coffee can as a ice container for a bottle of beer being cooled. Or the rejoicing of how proud you are of the parents you are being for your children. Or how about the fact that after that nasty fight you had about what you did and what he did and both are hurting and crying and yet your holding each other tightly and then you kiss. Now is that not love. Is that not better feeling to look at the positive not allways the negative.
I know I have been a puddle of muck lately, can't see past the ugliness of myself and what life is , but really? Am I , or are we just doing it to ourselves. Are we making it worse? Am I making it worse, Focusing on the bad? What if the answers have been given, and your doing the work both of you, should you not rejoice in that, should you not give yourself a break and be proud of your self whether a BS or a WS. You are still standing and if your spouse is beside you. You are still standing TOGETHER. you are not alone, you still have each other. Its our fears that won't let us open up and see.

Maybe I am hoping to much maybe its just I'm close to falling over and not getting up. But I see this as a better way to live than to continue to live in pain hurt fear , anger , self condemning. And I know both spouses feel this. I read it everyday, sometimes every hour.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Joan, I feel you don't understand what happens to a BS. You had a choice in what you did. We have no choice and were often blindsided. Many, if not most, BS's are traumatized on d-day. Many have actually been diagnosed with a type of PTSD.

We don't choose to focus on the negative. It overtakes us. Look up what PTSD can do to people than maybe you will understand the perspective from the BS.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9642 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What about the laughter you shared when your H thought you were funny cause you said the word wrong. Or your husband pretending to be a monkey as he chased you through the house and the kids laughing. What about the time you shared sitting in front of the fire in the garage with a coffee can as a ice container for a bottle of beer being cooled. Or the rejoicing of how proud you are of the parents you are being for your children. Or how about the fact that after that nasty fight you had about what you did and what he did and both are hurting and crying and yet your holding each other tightly and then you kiss. Now is that not love. Is that not better feeling to look at the positive not allways the negative.

Sure would be nice to be able to think about these things in a positive way. The problem is that most of my old memories are now tainted by the lies and betrayal. These memories should have been enough to keep my wife faithful. They weren't. Now they are just sad reminders of the life she threw away.

So I work on building new memories.

And yeah, what Sister Milkshake said. Easier said than done.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
TXBW68
♀ Member
Member # 36456
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO, focusing on the good does come in time. However, we all have to work thru the hurt in our own way in our own time to get to the other side. I think it's easier when the WS is remorseful though.

When we were first separated, I kept trying to remind him of all of those silly things that I considered part of our love story. He told me to stay out of his F... life! At that point, the hurt was all I could focus on.

When we got back together, I initially had to force myself to forget the hurt and remember the good times. As our reconciliation progressed, we made new memories to focus on. But the hurt will never go away completely. It just lessens in intensity as we work thru it and grow.

The only thing I can compare this to is the sudden death of my mom in 2003. She was there one minute, gone the next. I grieved for her in the beginning immensely. But as time has gone on, I don't get as sad on her birthday, etc. anymore. I can remember the good memories of her and not how she died or how much I miss her every day.

The death of my marriage as I knew it was no different. Now, we have a new marriage. We are different people now. We try to incorporate the good times from before with the lessons learned from the hurt he caused. Now, we have an authentic marriage and we're happier than ever.

((Joanh))


Me (45) WH (42),2 boys 14 & 11
M 18yrs T 22yrs
Separated 10 months (4/12 to 2/13)
Final Total - #1/#2 ONS and #3/#4 EA/PA - left me for #4, didn't know about #2 and 3 until he moved back home
We are solidly in R now

Posts: 788 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Dallas, TX
SpiderGrl
♀ Member
Member # 40157
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We don't choose to focus on the negative. It overtakes us.


This. There are days I would like to cut out all good and bad memories to stop the hurting.

[This message edited by SpiderGrl at 4:59 PM, October 4th (Friday)]


Me 36- BW
Him 37- WH 6 month EA pushing PA.
DDAY- 7/2/13
Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will. -Gandhi
Pls forgive weird sentences and spelling mistakes, I post from my phone and autocorrect hates me.

Posts: 101 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: US
TheAmazingWondertwin
♀ Member
Member # 40769
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me start by saying it is one of my deepest darkest fears that my own WS feels this way.
Im sure it would be easier for him if we just appreciated what we had and what we have- the good times and love and laughter. I have news for you- that is why I am still trying for R.
But you see- he hit a dark spot and was able to find release and escape. I hit a dark spot and he shit on my heart.
HE tainted those memories for me. Don't you see that those good times you speak of are the ones that the WS belittled, demeaned and made a complete mockery of? It would be great for the WS because then they don't have to face the pain and shame of the horror they brought to someone. Someone who did not ask for it- who did not get to make a choice - who held down the fort an nurtured hopes and dreams of happiness and love while their WS was out talking about them and sharing with someone else and really feeling GREAT.
I am all about holding new memories - but I will be damned if I let someone that caused such pain tell me to just "enjoy life" and "move on" as if I am somehow being immature and obstinate.
You asked for both to respond. I ask for you to have a little more respect than to make the BS feel as I we are somehow making this all more difficult than it needs to be.

[This message edited by Wondertwin at 5:18 PM, October 4th (Friday)]


Everyday is a new day, some good, some bad.
Me- BS 39
Him- FWS
14 years- 2 middle school children
DDay- 07-24-2013
NC broken from August 6- 24, 2013
Avalanche of Truth on November 14, 2013
Length of A: June 10th to Dday- with broken NC

Posts: 474 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: East Coast
Dallas2
♀ Member
Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In the beginning after DDay all many BS's feel is anger,shock,more anger, hurt, and more anger. Sister Milkshake has it right, the WS may feel pain and hurt and lots of other feeling but WS's actions caused all the feelings and pain for both partners by their choice. The BS has to proccess so much and more times than not it is the most traumatic thing to happen to them. Again Sistermilkshake brought up PTSD. Around DDay(even when I am not concious of it) I suffer many physical and mental issues.

Once we get through the rough stuff and are working on R there are good times and happy times again, but never the same. The wound is so deep it never heals completely. Neither partner is the same after an A.

You can live in the same house and do things together but still be alone. It takes awhile to rebuild an emotional connection.


Me

Posts: 828 | Registered: Apr 2010
TheAmazingWondertwin
♀ Member
Member # 40769
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And you learn something we everyday. Thanks for the edit tip. Sorry for the mini vent.
It a nerve is all.

[This message edited by Wondertwin at 5:19 PM, October 4th (Friday)]


Everyday is a new day, some good, some bad.
Me- BS 39
Him- FWS
14 years- 2 middle school children
DDay- 07-24-2013
NC broken from August 6- 24, 2013
Avalanche of Truth on November 14, 2013
Length of A: June 10th to Dday- with broken NC

Posts: 474 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: East Coast
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t/j @Wondertwin ~ you can edit your posts. Do you see the little piece of paper and pen in the upper right hand corner of your post box? Click on that paper and it will bring up your original post where you can edit it. Make sure when you are done editing to click on the Update Message box so that the edit is made. end t/j


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9642 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Joanh, I noticed that you are closing in on the 1 year "antiversary" of your DDay. In most cases, this "season" drudges up a lot of triggers, hurt, and anger. Just something to think about as November gets closer.


I bow to those who keep their hearts open when it is most difficult, those who refuse to keep their armor on any longer than they have to, those who recognize the courage at the heart of vulnerability. - Jeff Brown

Posts: 17296 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok First off in No way am I saying get over it.
Joan, I feel you don't understand what happens to a BS. You had a choice in what you did. We have no choice and were often blindsided. Many, if not most, BS's are traumatized on d-day. Many have actually been diagnosed with a type of PTSD
In no way am I minimizing what I have done.
Sure would be nice to be able to think about these things in a positive way. The problem is that most of my old memories are now tainted by the lies and betrayal. These memories should have been enough to keep my wife faithful. They weren't. Now they are just sad reminders of the life she threw away.
In no way am I saying look at the of good times we had. No that's not what I am saying.
I ask for you to have a little more respect than to make the BS feel as I we are somehow making this all more difficult than it needs to be.

I am sorry you have taken this as a show of disrespect. Its' not. It is a question. Never have I asked or suggest you should move on.
And you are right, I made the choice, and I made it against my husband and myself. He had no choice. And believe me you. I have enough things that have been done against my will or my want that I had no control over. Tht I have night mares over that I can relate. Not seeing the positives. So there is no disrespect here. I am trying to find a better place to be. I have been told to look at the positives and not look back. Defenitly easier said than done. No doubt. I am trying to find the answers to live the rest of our life out and to try to be happy.
Sorry If I offended anyone. I made the mess so I am trying to find the answers.
I have been told over and over again. Its up to me to feel happy to look at the world positive. and this comes from Counsellors and healing books etc.
I understand we are hurting for different reasons.BS's because Ias a WS's blew my Husbands world up, I as a Ws blew up my husband worldup and now trying to help him heal and fix myself.
I am again sorry for any offence or disrespect you may of felt.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
topperoff22
♀ Member
Member # 40762
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I have been a puddle of muck lately, can't see past the ugliness of myself and what life is , but really? Am I , or are we just doing it to ourselves. Are we making it worse? Am I making it worse, Focusing on the bad? What if the answers have been given, and your doing the work both of you, should you not rejoice in that, should you not give yourself a break and be proud of your self whether a BS or a WS. You are still standing and if your spouse is beside you. You are still standing TOGETHER. you are not alone, you still have each other. Its our fears that won't let us open up and see.

Yes.... And I know that I am making it worse by how I over think and analyze and stew over it all. My counselor (personal one) told me today she wants me to pray when that starts and then she also wants me to do a hobby, for me it is sketching photography, or working out, and put "positive clutter" in with the negative clutter so I push the negative back out again. I'm really trying to do this now. In some ways it is like WH and I are dating again Right now we are sending dirty messages back and forth while he is at work.


BS - Me 36
WS - Him 35 (almost 36)
Child: son, 6; just learned one on way
DDAY - July 24, 2013 (thousands spent on ex girlfriend)
DDAY2 -Aug. 3, 2013 (proof he slept with her)
R is slow going after TT for 1 month

Posts: 316 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: US
mellie99
♀ Member
Member # 39712
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Joanh,
For me I feel my prospective is a little different; maybe some others will agree on this. I've tried to focus on the positive and all the good memories and the things I love about my WH. That's the thing: at the end of the day I loved him then and I still love him now, and I think that's what hurts so much. Because of this, it allowed me to 'dismiss' some of his previous actions, never truly dealing with the problem and therefore allowing it to fester until we arrived at the point where we are now. I feel like HAD I felt more negative emotions towards his behaviors and reacted instead of stuffing my feelings maybe we would have never reached the point where I felt the need to physically remove myself from our home. So yes, I think sometimes we dwell in the pain, but I also feel that sometimes it's completely necessary in order to completely heal from the situation. Hope that makes sense.


Me: BW (32)
Him: WS (31)-Multiple ONS
Married: 1/3/05 Together since 5/2002
D-Day #1-3/2009 (4 years after the fact)
D-Day #2 3/2013(he confessed to 3 more ONS, 1 the month I found out I was pregnant)

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: United States
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sure, we had been together almost 20 years before he cheated. We were college sweethearts, had two beautiful kids, years of laughs, and sweetness and fun.

then IT happened. He didn't love me, he didn't respect me, he discarded me. I didn't trust him anymore,

All that other stuff felt like frosting on a rancid cake. What the hell good was a bunch of fluff when the fundamentals of love, loyalty, trust and respect were missing.

And it certainly wasn't my choice to focus on the rancid cake, I didn't order it, didn't want it, but it was served up anyway.....

I, or rather we, got past that , with a LOT of hard work and time and consistency. But it sure wasn't my choice to be in the dark place. No Way.

[This message edited by JustWow at 8:45 PM, October 4th (Friday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3616 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Peaches2013
♀ Member
Member # 40852
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't want to focus on the hurt and pain. I really don't.

Because of what happened, my husband finally took his alcoholism seriously. He's changing for the better every day. He's a better partner, a better father, a better friend than he's been in probably the 15 years I've known him.

But it's not even the times I get caught in the web of mind movies or obsessing about what happened with the OW - it's stupid things like the situation I had four hours ago. He's meeting out of state friends for dinner. I can't go because we have two small children, and I am perfectly fine with that. I wanted him to go and have fun, we discussed my fears about his drinking, but I really AM and WAS fine with him going. It had nothing to do with him cheating. But, suddenly, it became all about him cheating and never treating me as special as he treats every other single person in his life....

Do I feel that way? Sure I do. He complained about our marriage for years to his friends. He complained about our marriage to his co-workers. He flirted with every person he came into contact who was female, and crossed some serious boundaries with female co-workers during the years (that I now see clearly).

Bringing that into our discussion turned it into an argument and made things worse for both of us. But I simply could not help myself from feeling it or expressing it to him. Trust me, I want to get passed all of that.


Me: BS
Him: WH ONS/short EA
Married 11 years
Together 15 years
2 children

Posts: 64 | Registered: Oct 2013
ionlytalkedtoher
♀ Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't chose to focus on the negative.

but otherwise...there weren't any of those happy times like you described in my marriage. Hence the affair...


Posts: 262 | Registered: Jul 2013
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, October 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The little things I gave as examples are things that are things that have happened after my BH found out about my affair. I find too everything before is tainted with what I have done. Cause I question myself. So when I mention the "fun happy" things its now in the present.
I know none of the BS chose to feel this way. I know that. I am the cause of this feeling for my BH.
All I can say is I canrelate only this way, as a girl I was Sexually abused , . So in saying that I get the "I don't choose to feel this way" I don't either.
What I would like to say is though if I could have had the opportunity to be able to say my hurt pain and anger and be able to express, I probably been able to heal a lot quicker than I have. Which ultimately has lead me to this nightmare I have caused. Now this is not an excuse. Its a I can relate . Please try not to take this as disrespect or minimizing.
My councellor has said I have to move past this and the damage I have done and that is to the things in my life that are positive.
REading each of your responses, only engrains in me deeper the pain and the hurt I have caused my BH. I want to see the light not for me but for him and us and my family.
Edited TMI not needed.

[This message edited by Joanh at 9:46 PM, October 4th (Friday)]


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
doesitgetbetter
♀ Member
Member # 18429
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Joan, as a childhood sex abuse survivor, you know what it's like to not trust someone that looks like the person who hurt you. You know what it's like to withdraw into yourself to try to protect yourself from that happening again. You know what it's like to be scared when you're in a place that looks similar to the place where you were abused. You know what the nightmares and flashbacks are like.

Those things are ALL the same for BS's. We don't chose them, they simply come. Even for BS's who choose to rugsweep, they still have those flashbacks, those pains, those nightmares. They just chose to not deal with them.

Would the perpetrator to your sexual abuse saying they were sorry to you change the pain you endured? Would it have changed the nightmares? Would it have changed the panic of it happening again? Probably not much. Much like the WS saying they are sorry doesn't wipe away the pain, fear, anger that the BS has. It is something that must be dealt with, processed, worked through for a very long time (they say an average of 2-5 years on here, and I know it was true in my situation).

At some point, we DO chose to be happy. But we usually chose that after we have healed from this A-bomb that has been dropped on our marriage. Anything else is often fake. Would you rather have a fake happy BH, or a healed and not-always-happy-but-working-towards-it BH? I know my H would rather have the latter.

I can also tell you that today, I AM happy, truly happy. We've worked on LOTS of healing, and I've worked on choosing lots of happiness, in that order.


DDay - Dec '07
Me - BS
Him - FWS
Us - Committed
May 18, 2010 - I forgave him fully!
"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10

Posts: 3859 | Registered: Feb 2008
TrulySad
♀ Member
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is a choice, to a point. We could chose to put the pain behind us and live today, in whatever joy our W's now want to be in with us.

But for me, I will never live again, in lies. I lived lies while he was cheating. Right now, to put the pain behind, and be happy, would feel like more lies. Like I'm having to hide my real emotions. Never again.

This is real life. It sucks. Yep. But at least I'm still here giving him a chance. And what the waywards need to understand ....staying and working through this pain is hard and painful, but it's a gift and sacrifice we're giving you. We're telling you that you're still worth this horrid pain.

[This message edited by TrulySad at 10:34 AM, October 5th (Saturday)]


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 451 | Registered: Jun 2013
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, October 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes in writing this post I have being reading everyones answers and exploring the closest thing I can relate it too. And yes I still can smell and I still watch men around my children. I am leary of any man who smiles at my children and I wonder I they going to try and touch my child? So yes I understand that part. And in writing this post it has helped me understand it even more so.
I am sorry for any disrespect I have shown for all theBS that have read and posted here. I am truly trying to understand, and I am sorry some questions are just hard ones to ask and get answers for or from. Thank you for taking the time to reply for to me. Thank you for helping me understand more of how my Husband is feeling.
And once again I am sorry for upsetting any of you.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
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