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User Topic: Interesting Article in the Paper Today
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A very interesting op ed piece in the “New York Times” today about betrayal. Not sure it tells us lots more than we already know, but in a very easy way for the WS and BS to understand.

The author is a psychiatrist and the betrayal isn't necessarily infidelity. Also, interesting, he feels the WS has an easier time recovering. (Which I certainly have seen from my years on SI.)

Discoveries of such secrets typically bring on tumultuous crises. Ironically, however, in my clinical experience, it is often the person who lied or cheated who has the easier time. People who transgressed might feel self-loathing, regret or shame. But they have the possibility of change going forward, and their sense of their own narrative, problematic though it may be, is intact. They knew all along what they were doing and made their own decisions. They may have made bad choices, but at least those were their own and under their control. Now they can make new, better choices.

And to an astonishing extent, the social blowback for such miscreants is often transient and relatively minor. They can change! Our culture, in fact, wholeheartedly supports such “new beginnings” — even celebrates them. It has a soft spot for the prodigal sons and daughters who set about repairing their ways, for tales of people starting over: reformed addicts, unfaithful spouses who rededicate themselves to family, convicted felons who find redemption in religion. Talk shows thrive on these tales. Perhaps it’s part of our powerful national belief in self-help and self-creation. It’s never too late to start anew.
But for the people who have been lied to, something more pervasive and disturbing occurs. They castigate themselves about why they didn’t suspect what was going on. The emotions they feel, while seemingly more benign than those of the perpetrator, may in the long run be more corrosive: humiliation, embarrassment, a sense of having been naïve or blind, alienation from those who knew the truth all along and, worst of all, bitterness.

Insidiously, the new information disrupts their sense of their own past, undermining the veracity of their personal history. Like a computer file corrupted by a virus, their life narrative has been invaded. Memories are now suspect: what was really going on that day? Why did the spouse suddenly buy a second phone “for work” several years ago? Did a friend know the truth even as they vacationed together? Compulsively going over past events in light of their recently acquired (and unwelcome) knowledge, such patients struggle to integrate the new version of reality. For many people, this discrediting of their experience is hard to accept. It’s as if they are constantly reviewing their past lives on a dual screen: the life they experienced on one side and the new “true” version on the other. But putting a story together about this kind of disjunctive past can be arduous.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/great-betrayals.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&ref=opinion&adxnnlx=1381078999-MF7DPN+jRdqFoQ21IWNGbw



Posts: 5622 | Registered: Jul 2002
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really nicely summarized. For me, the worst part has, indeed, been "putting together a dysjunctive past" at a time when my ability to trust my own instincts was at its nadir.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8729 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for providing the article/link... It's always good to find additional sources of information/validation. I think this is "spot on".

ETA: I liked the ending to the article and thought I'd add it here:

...it’s often a painstaking process to reconstruct a coherent personal history piece by piece — one that acknowledges the deception while reaffirming the actual life experience. Yet it’s work that needs to be done. Moving forward in life is hard or even, at times, impossible, without owning a narrative of one’s past. Isak Dinesen has been quoted as saying “all sorrows can be borne if you put them in a story or tell a story about them.” Perhaps robbing someone of his or her story is the greatest betrayal of all.

[This message edited by StillStanding1 at 12:39 PM, October 6th (Sunday)]


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 692 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
20Hopeful16
♀ Member
Member # 40487
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, that you for posting that. Despite being NC with WH, I am almost tempted to forward it to him.


Me: BS (39)
Three Beautiful Children 12,9,5
DD: 8/24/13
Heading for divorce
Moving on with life

Posts: 107 | Registered: Aug 2013
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perhaps robbing someone of his or her story is the greatest betrayal of all.

Thanks, Skye. The last line just about brought me to my knees. For me, being 3 1/2 years past d-day, this is still what I feel is the greatest betrayal. As my FWH had a LTA and I didn't find out until 6 years later, I feel I have been robbed of a decade of my life story. I am having such a hard time integrating this reality into my story. Nothing was real, or at least, one dimensional at best in what I thought was my story.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9712 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is a good article, but being a skeptic, I wonder if the representative sampling of 'cheaters & liars' was enough to draw the conclusion that they have an easier time recovering. My guess would be that fewer cheaters seek help than those who were betrayed. In any event, I would also assume that the cheaters want to put their actions behind them, at least as a public persona.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20228 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
macakipa
♀ Member
Member # 33735
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My guess would be that fewer cheaters seek help than those who were betrayed. In any event, I would also assume that the cheaters want to put their actions behind them, at least as a public persona.

^Absolutely!

Thank you for sharing the link/article.


M -25 years, T - 31 years, 4 children
Dday October 8, 2011 - Multiple PAs and ONs
Divorced 1-8-13
"When you give a lot of importance to someone in your life, you lose your importance in their life."

Posts: 952 | Registered: Oct 2011
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sent this to WH, who is on a work trip. He replied:

Yes, this is it all right. I am so sorry. How do I help you rebuild? You need to know how thankful I am that you are still with me.

Nice.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2012
RightTrack
♀ Member
Member # 36976
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, October 6th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Learned PHD and whatnot, he used "prodigal" incorrectly.

Posts: 621 | Registered: Sep 2012
Bluebird26
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Member # 36445
Default  Posted: 1:17 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TFS!

Blobette - glad your WS is willing help you heal :)


"Loving someone should not mean losing you. Love empowers you. It shouldn't erase you. - Thelma Davis.

Posts: 1348 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Australia
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 1:31 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for posting this, Skye.

Perhaps robbing someone of his or her story is the greatest betrayal of all.

This line hit me hard too.

Another good line from the article that wasn't in your original posting:

Perhaps this is why many patients conclude in their therapy that it’s not the actions or betrayal that they most resent, it’s the lies.

The lies. yes.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7819 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
Thessalian
♀ Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 1:33 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perhaps robbing someone of his or her story is the greatest betrayal of all.

This hit me hard as well. I hate that our love story has been turned into a sadsack story about sick people back-stabbing the ones they love.


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 164 | Registered: Sep 2013
Itstoohard
♀ Member
Member # 37629
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That last line hit me hard also. No timeline makes it even harder.


BS 64
fWH 64
PA 22 yrs ago
Started as EA for 2 yrs then ONS CORRECTION Started as an EA for 8 years
Trustismyissue

Posts: 180 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: US
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting article - thanks for the post Skye.

It’s as if they are constantly reviewing their past lives on a dual screen: the life they experienced on one side and the new “true” version on the other

Yeah, no shit. And trying to come to grips with the fact that you'll never know the real truth in my case.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3963 | Registered: Dec 2011
LadyYoga
♀ Member
Member # 28611
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ugh I just sent it to OW. I need to learn self control. Wish me luck


BS (me) 39
WH 50
DD,DS,DS
D-day 3/11/10 (3 month EA,1 week PA)
Whore was my best friend

Posts: 700 | Registered: May 2010
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sad in AZ, perhaps the WS not seeing a therpist isn't needed if BSes see therapists. As a BS I saw my husband heal and move forward and reported it to my therapist. (Though my husband, the cheater, did see a therapist.)As the author states, the WS is in control all the time and the BS isn't.

I, too, was particularly hit by the last statement and it made me realize why I didn't move forward quicker. I lived a lie for over 35 years, believing in something that wasn't so.


Posts: 5622 | Registered: Jul 2002
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good read but I agree with Sad in AZ. If you look at infidelity and put yourself in the position of having been the WS and wanting to sincerely get past that, I dunno if 'easier' is really an appropriate word to use. Different kinds of hell are still hell. I dunno. While it has been hell to live through this I would never want to put myself in the hell of perpetrating it.

Obviously if they don't really delve into that then yeah, it's probably a lot easier. On the other side of it I can say it's easier for me knowing I wasn't responsible for the shit other people did, and I retain control over my life.

Sorry, interesting to think about and I am doing it out loud, I will go find something shiny.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7456 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
somanyyears
♂ Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, October 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


..@StillGoing..

I will go find something shiny.

you crack me up!

..as for the article, i'd agree in our case that WW is having an easier time of it..

..found religion! claims to have peace and God's grace..

..seems pretty happy 'most' of the time.. and i don't believe she has any idea how much pain i am still in.

I, too, was particularly hit by the last statement and it made me realize why I didn't move forward quicker. I lived a lie for over 35 years, believing in something that wasn't so.

..just change that to 40 years and include double betrayal to boot!

..

this discrediting of their experience is hard to accept.

..some days, still, i just can't believe they did this..

..and for the low reasons..

..if it had been for some undying love, i might get it, but love, infatuation, had zero to do with their motivations..

still turns my stomach!

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4125 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
Topic Posts: 18

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