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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: details and nightmares - do they matter?
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am having a recurrent nightmare, a physical act between ow and h.

Yes, it's just a dream, maybe. Maybe it did happen. H has given me some details. Do I want to know? Really, I wish that I didn't have to know any of this.

My conflict, to know that it didn't happen, is only my brain torturing me would be helpful.

But, what if it is real? Then I have to deal with it as reality.

H has given me some details. I guess I just don't know if I believe him. I wonder if he is just minimizing it. I can never really know what the truth is.

I have discussed this with IC. He tells me it doesn't matter, the details don't matter. He says one time was too many and any act is wrong, what those acts were are irrelevant.

I've been trying that, to just let it go.

The struggle comes first, I have been with h for 13 years. I KNOW what sex with him is like. I cannot change that I just do. I just can't imagine it being like he said, although, like IC says, no matter how "good" or "bad" it will hurt me.

Second part of this struggle, the dream. More than once, so graphic, so disturbing, I have been up since 4am.

I tried to tell myself it is just a dream. Then of course I know it's a dream based on reality.

I guess, I am wondering, how has it affected those of you who have gotten the details? Do you even believe that you are getting the truth? Has it made it worse or better?

There is a lot that I feel I still don't know. I don't know the content of the texts, not really he has been very vague. I don't know any dates except what I found by credit card receipts. This is crazy. I thought I was past this part. I have never gotten a timeline, never asked for one. How important was this for those that have received one?

I guess maybe I feel there are still secrets. Things that they know and I don't. How can you ever believe what you are told?

Does any of this even matter? It's not going to change anything. I am going to hate that he was with her no matter what they did. It is so damn graphic in my head.


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divorced 8/5/14


Posts: 1310 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
heforgotme
♀ Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had WH describe something in particular to me bc I was having nightmares about it. I thought it would make them go away if it was no longer a mystery. It worked, but now I have "daymares" about it. Replay it in my head over and over.

I think I preferred the nightmares....


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1076 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I struggle with this as well. I would trust your IC about the details. But, I might trust your husband enough to tell him explicitly the content of the dream, and why it bothers you.

Or, you could just act as if it did happen, and deal with it that way. What would it mean? If it is X, would it really be worse than if it were Y? What does this particular act mean to you? Is it because it is something you won't do? Or it is something you like to do? I'd try to parse what it is about it that bothers you.

I have found specifics about sex to do more harm than good for me at this point. Then, I fixate on them. But, many, many people here feel differently.

I have focused more on what he thought the sex meant then, and what he feels about it now. H has been very eloquent in describing how insignificant and empty it all seems to him now....so maybe what you really need to hear is how he feels about it now? Learning that has shut down my quest for details a bit, because it seems kind of irrelevant in the bigger picture . . . assuming R is going well.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1876 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Marathonwaseasy
♀ Member
Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Talking to him about the feelings around the sex has helped. Reassuring me about some of my worries and going into a bit of detail. Not graphic. But if there is a specific issue that I keep coming up against I've asked. The specifics no longer hurt me. Just the fact that it happened it all is the issue now


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, in some very important aspects, the details don't matter. They really don't.

For some of us, though, they matter a whole lot in some senses. You sound like they matter to you.

I think the details are extremely important for everyone in a couple of important areas. First, every time a WS answers a question honestly, she rebuilds trust. Second, every time a WS answers a question honestly, she faces what she's done/ accepts responsibility, and that's absolutely critical to R.

IMO, it doesn't matter if the nightmare is accurate or not. It's still a stark reminder that your H betrayed you.

My guess is that the nightmares won't matter if your H comes clean. You might still have 'em, but you'll be able to brush them off more easily.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:11 AM, October 9th (Wednesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9986 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
FUBARlife
♂ New Member
Member # 38073
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe the significance of the details is up to each individual. In my situation, knowing the details immediately stopped the nightmares. I have to deal with the things I KNOW WW did with her AP, but that is better than dealing with my creative mind. I also feel knowing the intimate details broke the final barrier between me and WW. They no longer had any secrets and I was on the "inside" with my WW. One word of caution, you can't un know anything you learn. If your nights are anything like mine were, that was a risk I was willing to take. Good luck!


Me: BS
Her:WS
Kids: 17 /18
Married 19 years
D-Day: 12/7/2012
Full story: 2/12/2013

Posts: 28 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: NC
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This one particular dream keeps coming up over and over. It feels real to me when I wake in the middle of the night.

Intellectually I understand that the details are unimportant, to me it was all wrong, so wrong, the texting, sharing intimate conversations, the kiss, the touching all of it, just wrong. I get so angry that I even have to have this in my life. It is just wrong.

When I wake from this dream I am shattered. Maybe it's another line crossed? I just don't know. All I know today is I am in the pit. Mind movies running rampant, hear palps, nausea.

Here I am at work with the public and I have to keep going to hide to shed tears, letting it out in small doses. I feel like screaming and crying at the top of my lungs.

I know this will pass, I will calm again, the rational will come back, but oh god right now.

Obscenity, obscenity, obscenity!!! This is real. How can it continue to shock me?

He really did this. He really left me. He really turned his back and walked away. He really had a replacement for me or thought he did. He dated her, spent time, energy, he exposed me to her.

How can I still, after all this time have this feeling of unreality?


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divorced 8/5/14


Posts: 1310 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
SorrowBhindSmile
♀ Member
Member # 38139
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so very sorry. I too have had the nightmares....and the daymares. In my case, WH offered up a detail i DID NOT ask for. I think he did it partially because he wanted to let me know it wasnt this awesome experience and it wasnt better with her...and partially because he was trying to be open and honest. It is now a visual forever burned into my mind.

I too, feel like you do. That even if i did ask, would WH minimize it?? He says he wouldn't...he would tell me the truth....he says knows the repercussions and is fully committed to honesty and transparency. BUT...do i really want to know??? I do believe that my WH has been honest in all the answers that he has given me. And i do believe getting the details i did have helped me.

I am a middle of the roader.....i have some details....and there are others i just do NOT need to know. When something (like your dream) has been very persistently disturbing to me, i have talked to WH and MC about it. Bring it in the open. Discuss it and work thru it. Maybe i ask the detail questions, maybe i dont, but we still talk it out.

The fact that you still think there are secrets and things he isn't telling you could very possibly be fueling this dream. The fact that he has been vague hinders recovery. Yes, i will agree that you dont need ALL the details....but you do need some...and i strongly feel that is part of the healing process. At least it was for me.

If there are particular things you have questions about, write them down. Keep a running list. ponder the questions. Bring them to MC/IC with you. talk to your MC about them and the effects of the answers on you. Perhaps there are some you can let go, and others you just will have to know. But either way...your WH owes you complete honesty and transparency.

hugs to you


Me: BW
Him: WH
OW: My former "dear friend"/neighbor
Married 20+
Kids: 3
D-Day 12/2012
Committed to R 7/8/2013
"Believe in yourself and all that you are. Know that there is something inside you that is greater than any obstacle"

Posts: 357 | Registered: Jan 2013
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the details are extremely important for everyone in a couple of important areas. First, every time a WS answers a question honestly, she rebuilds trust. Second, every time a WS answers a question honestly, she faces what she's done/ accepts responsibility, and that's absolutely critical to R.

I agree with this completely. Every time my WS lied about a detail, it set me back.

Details are important to me, but I know they're not to everyone. In my opinion, I need to know what to forgive before I can forgive it. Plus, it's my life, and I want to know what went on in my life. He does not have the right to keep those details from me if I want to know them.

I think it's ultimately up to you on whether or not you want to know the details. If you do, then he should tell you.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1121 | Registered: Jul 2013
Hopefulinva
♀ New Member
Member # 40348
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted every single detail and got them.

For me it helped. Everyone is different, but in my case the details weren't as awful as what was playing in my mind.


BW: me 33
FWH: him 34
Married 15 years
2 DD 14, 10
ONS stranger from the bar 7/26/13
Dday 7/29/13
Fully committed and immersed In recovering what we lost along the way.

Posts: 23 | Registered: Aug 2013
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted the details and I'm glad I got them for 2 reasons. Firstly, the minute I knew he had slept with OW I had this image in my head of this hot, sexy, romantic thing... I pictured him slowly undressing her, her in sexy lingerie, kind of like my best, hottest fantasy... that's what I imagined them doing... When I got the details from fWH it was nothing like that at all! I made him describe it all in detail and it was a case of them undressing themselves, she had really cheapie, basic underwear and the sex was generally missionary....with the odd BJ, nothing passionate and sexy at all. I was SO glad to hear that... it doesn't take away the fact that he had sex with another woman, but it makes it seem like it was - cheap and tawdry.

The other thing was this: I imagined that he would have given her oral sex, it's something really special to me and I believed that he had done that with her. It was chewing me up. Finally I asked him and he said that he once offered to and she said no, she wasn't into that. I felt an enormous amount of relief when I heard that. It was something important to me that he hadn't given away to her. And god knows he had given her every other bloody thing, so I was glad I could salvage that one thing!!


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 945 | Registered: Oct 2012
Lonelygirl10
♀ Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


The other thing was this: I imagined that he would have given her oral sex, it's something really special to me and I believed that he had done that with her. It was chewing me up. Finally I asked him and he said that he once offered to and she said no, she wasn't into that. I felt an enormous amount of relief when I heard that. It was something important to me that he hadn't given away to her. And god knows he had given her every other bloody thing, so I was glad I could salvage that one thing!!

I'm glad that he didn't give that to her! Mine did He was the only person I had ever allowed to give me oral sex, so that one detail was stuck in my head too. I asked, and he said yes. Maybe it would have been easier for me to not know that, but I'm glad I do. I'd rather know than wonder.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1121 | Registered: Jul 2013
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsaclimb,

That is my graphic nightmare! What the hell??? It is absolutely creepy the way this dream is so graphic! To see it you would think I was there, TMI, doing it!

I don't know how to explain but the perspective is just way too much! I keep having this dream. I look at h and I want to punch him in the face.

But I don't, I stuff it down until I break. Today woke at 4, sick, heart all out of wack, anxiety, crying in the bathroom at work.

This dream sets me back to a place I never want to be.

I guess i will take my chances and describe my graphic dream to h. Considering the roller coaster he has been riding it could go either way.

I just can't keep going through this alone.

I think the truth, even though it may be true, I guess in my head it already is and so the only other thing it could be is untrue.

But, can I believe him??? Will he be honest??? Will he turn it back on me, accuse me of regressing, impeding my own healing???

As I write this, it reminds me to the ending of a soap opera...to be continued


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divorced 8/5/14


Posts: 1310 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is my graphic nightmare! What the hell??? It is absolutely creepy the way this dream is so graphic! To see it you would think I was there, TMI, doing it!
I understand, really I do. I went through the same thing, only for me it wasn't dreams so much as fixating on it day in and day out. Somehow the BJs and all the other stuff I could cope with, but the thought of him going down on her - that just freaked me out completely!

I was so glad to read your new post today and hear how well your conversation with him went. Hoping that this is a turning point for you!

I'd rather know than wonder.
Me too, I think in all of this A crap, I would rather know the truth than wonder about things.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 945 | Registered: Oct 2012
Morhurt
♀ Member
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope you do discuss it with him, it's important that he knows how you're doing. If you really don't want to know the truth about the oral sex, you could preface the conversation with that. He can still listen, understand, validate and empathize without actually confirming or denying that truth of it (if that's what you want).

I had a nightmare the other night that I could see through the lens of H's iphone and I saw his bare leg and movement (possibly him videoing himself masturbating), I woke up in a complete panic! I immediately woke H up and told him, he held me while I shivered and cried. It didn't take the brutalness of the dream away but his love and attention in the middle of the night made me at least feel safe(r).

I hope he can help you through those difficult nights in the future.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 900 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
Topic Posts: 15

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