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User Topic: 2 Months from dday & he's on a boys trip
FoggedIn
♀ Member
Member # 40329
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well I full expected he'd make the right choice, but sadly he didn't. Once again he's chosen something else over me and over our marriage.

He 'says' all the right things & then he follows it up by saying "Let my actions speak louder than my words". And then he leaves for a week on a boys trip! A trip he shouldn't be on, a trip he should've declined. When he told me about it, I said if it's what you really want to do & if it's more important than you marriage, then absolutely you should go. Well, what did he chose to do? Yep, he went!

But then leaves little notes all over the house that say I Love You and writes me a sweet card and leaves it under my pillow.

He wonders why I'm withdrawn when he calls on the phone. Is he really just that stupid to think I would just blow it off and it's not a big deal that 2 months ago he was in bed with a hooker & I've lost 20lbs, can't sleep, I'm running a business & it's taking up what little sanity I can muster to focus at the office, taking care of the kids, house, etc. But he can load up & bail out for a fun filled week with the boys, with a pocket full of cash (that he doesn't think I know he took!), knowing full well that I didn't want him to go and he knows in his heart, he has no business going when he should be here fighting for his marriage! But is he just that stupid to think that I was going to send him off with a farewell part? And then ask him how much fun he's having when he calls?

He's always be selfish and self serving, all his life & our entire marriage. I always tolerated it & probably enabled it too. But now, I've got very little patience for it.


D-Day 1 8/8/13 :: WH was with prostitute, I found the physical evidence 24 hours later.
Much has happened since.
Not sure where we're at....... MC, IC, R'ish

Posts: 214 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest US
hardtimesinlife
♀ Member
Member # 10468
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((FoggedIn))

Did you tell him you didn't want him going? It sounds like you just wanted him to make the decision, which would have allowed you to feel like a priority. Or maybe you didn't want to be the bad guy and say "Hell No" to his trip. Whichever it is, I am sorry he didn't choose to stay home and help you through. It sucks.


Ddays 2004 & 2007
I cut my losses mid 2013
Feeling happier every day :)

Posts: 6139 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Florida
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry 53 year old MAN should know better. Sounds like more then a boys trip? I would pack his bags myself. Just sayin enough already.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Bikingguy
♂ Member
Member # 38103
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

<<Foggedln>>

This was an issue with us as well. My D day was on a Saturday. I was such a reck I had to take 3 days off from work. That week WW reminded me she was hoping to attend a concert in Vegas with her girl friends, but wondered if I was going "to punish her" and not allow her to go. I of course did not want to say no, wanted her to figure it out. Others here mentioned that I was not her father and could (and of course did for years) do what she wanted.
She was actually concerned that we were spending some much time together that she might feel trapped and isolated. Sadly she did not get it, as many BS do not initially.

Not sure how that would have turned out as the concert was sold out (Son of a bitch - light bulb moment, but more on that later). So not sure if she would have gone, but it would have been very detrimental to our R

I just realized that this weekend we went with two other couples to the same concert she wanted to go to in February. I triggered bad and had a terrible time. Of course it didn't help that the group has several songs about cheating

Not sure I offered any help, but to say I am so sorry your BH did not make the right choice in this case. I think you really should tell him how upset your feeling for this choice. Not sure it will help, but he should know what you are feeling and where your head/heart is.


Me: BH, 44
Her: WW, 43
D day. January 12, 2013

Posts: 675 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Socal
hexed
♀ Member
Member # 19258
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've got a box of hefty bags I can give you to pack his shit and leave on the front porch


But that's just a lot of water
Underneath a bridge I burned
And there's no use in backtracking
Around corners I have turned

“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.” -foulton oursler


Posts: 8460 | Registered: Apr 2008
seenow
♀ Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not thinking of the consequences and just doing what they want to do. They will deal with the issues later then get defensive about their decisions saying you seemed OK then.

This is not OK. This is not behavior for R. Dang them!


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 296 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was initially going to be really harsh and tell you not to be there when he got back. You need to put the fear of God into him that you might really leave. But then, I thought about it and remembered how long it took my WH to get his head out of his ass. Sure, maybe it would have happened more quickly if I had up and left, but it did happen eventually. (I have kids, so walking away or booting him out is complicated.)

We had a similar thing where the WH wanted to go away on a boys' weekend. The guys are FOM and I know them all -- they also knew about the A -- it was totally safe, and I wasn't worried about any A-related bad behavior. (Acting like 12 year-olds, well... YES.) I had had some bad news and was in a very bad state, and WH left for the weekend anyway. We have discussed and discussed this now in MC.

So, he went because 1) he's used to me taking care of myself. I'm a bit co-dependent - I take care of everything, including myself. WH has never NEEDED to nuture me/take care of me. 2) he lacks empathy. His years of the LTA meant that he had sealed himself off from me emotionally.

This latter point was HUGE and it took him a while to get there and accept how true it was. I'm pretty sure he totally gets it now. He's not always perfect, but he's trying very hard to listen to my emotions and not react defensively. but it took a LOT of counseling to get there. At 2 months out, he definitely didn't get it. And the thing that inspired him to get there was accepting that he'd done a really fucked up thing and radical measures needed to be taken.

So -- does your WH get that radical measures need to be taken? That he can't just carry on with his life as before? I think it takes a while for this to sink in with Waywards, even those who are remorseful. It's not entirely clear (and probably not to you, either) whether your WH is remorseful. The notes COULD be a sign of it, or it could be a way of snowing you. Hard to say.

But, as I said, it might be good to put the fear of God into him. 180 time? I never did the 180 as described on here, but my WH did know that I was teetering on the brink of ditching the whole thing very, very seriously, and that terrified him. Sometimes it takes that (or actually leaving) before they do.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Blobette at 2:12 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1061 | Registered: Aug 2012
soconfusednow
♀ Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I said if it's what you really want to do & if it's more important than you marriage, then absolutely you should go.

You told him no, with out telling him no. Are you sure he really understood your wishes?


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
suposd2btheonly1
♀ Member
Member # 40753
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our Ddays are the same, I would not be okay with this at all! Not this soon, omg I wouldn't be able to stay sane.

{{{{FoggedIn}}}}


Me: BW 31
Him: WH 30
OW: 22yo whore who is still planning her wedding
Married 3yrs, together 5
4 kids, all boys 14, 11, 4 and 8mos...I hope like hell they don't hurt someone the way he hurt their mama
Dday: August 9, 2013
S, until his head

Posts: 206 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gently, instead of saying:

I said if it's what you really want to do & if it's more important than you marriage, then absolutely you should go.

when that isn't what you wanted, you should have been fully honest and said:

Hell no, I don't want you to go. It's too close to DDay, I am falling apart, I'm hanging on by a thread and it's not fair for you to go and escape for a week.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have KNOWN it, but you also should have SAID it.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK...so you're fogged in. That's where you are - where do you want to go?

I said if it's what you really want to do & if it's more important than you marriage, then absolutely you should go.

I read that and conclude his going was a deal-breaker for you. You've said his going on this trip will end your M.

The consequence is pretty clear. Frankly, I think it's a very reasonable consequence, especially in the context of a life of selfishness and a recent D-Day.

But is the trip really a deal breaker for you? If not, how come?

If you mis-spoke, that's OK - but you don't get many chances in R to backtrack, especially with a very selfish WS. If this isn't a deal breaker, I urge you to figure out ASAP what your requirements for R are and start enforcing them.

I'm not talking about baby-sitting the big baby. I just mean: outline your requirements and consequences and implement the consequences automatically when he fails to meet a requirement.

Oh - and use the time he's away to consult with a lawyer.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:49 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10384 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Lucky2HaveMe
♀ Member
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What are the consequences of this choice for him? You see, if there are no consequences then for him it is a "no harm, no foul" thing.

You guys need to talk about requirements for R and what behaviors are no longer acceptable. Boys wknds would top my list so close to dday.


Indian wisdom says our lives are rivers. We are born somewhere small and quiet and we move toward a place we cannot see, but only imagine. From Tending Roses

Posts: 6568 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
FoggedIn
♀ Member
Member # 40329
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, October 11th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me start by saying Thank You ALL so much for your responses! I have read them, re-read them, printed them and read them again. They have made me stop & think about the situation and why I feel the way I do, what it means, why I didn't come right out and say "No I do not want you to go", etc.

Which is also why I didn't respond to your comments right away. I'm a 'thinker' (It's a bit of a problem!).

Initially I didn't straight out say to him "No I do not want you to go" because yes I needed him to realize that on his own. I needed him to see the importance in the relationship and in the R of him being here and being actively involved. And after putting more thought into it, I mostly still feel that way. But I would add, that my comment to him

I said if it's what you really want to do & if it's more important than you marriage, then absolutely you should go.

Is really what I meant also. If this trip was more important than me and our M. Then truly I want him to go, because it does speak volumes to me. It speaks volumes about our M, about his remorse about how he feels about me and about where our journey may lead. If he isn't willing to give up one of the half dozen boys trips he goes on every year, just 2 months out from bedding a hooker and throwing a grenade in the soul of the woman he vowed to protect and honor till death, well, it speaks volumes.

So I did need HIM to make the final decision. I really didn't want to make it for him. Truthfully if I had put my foot down and said absolutely not, you are not going. He more than likely would have gone anyway. (It's a long complicated story of the 1000 excuses he would've given why he couldn't cancel, none of them actually legitimate!)

I do believe in asking for what you want. And my therapist says the same thing. When we've talked about this exact situation, she mentioned it also. When I said to her that I really felt like if WH really wanted to go and felt like it was more important, then he should go, she understood and agreed with the reasoning.

Whether or not it's a deal breaker. I honestly don't know......

There's a part of me that thinks WH is actually just that stupid that he doesn't realize the gravity of the situation. He may actually completely lack the ability to empathize, to come outside his self absorbed bubble. The question is, can I live with that? Can real R happen inside his bubble? Can real remorse happen in his bubble? Will he ever get outside his bubble to ever actually be able to 'get it'? To fully understand what he's done to me?

When he left here for the trip, he says to me...... Don't be sad! He actually thought I was sad because I would be without him for a week. No honey, I can function without you, I will not be crying myself to sleep because I'm sleeping alone. What I am feeling is disappointment and anger actually.

Sorry this was a lengthy response, I clearly spent too much time, thinking about all of your responses!

WH will be home today....... he's been calling and texting everyday. "I miss you so bad, can't wait to get home. It's miserable here without you" Blah blah blah. WTF did you go then? Hmmm? Whatever!


D-Day 1 8/8/13 :: WH was with prostitute, I found the physical evidence 24 hours later.
Much has happened since.
Not sure where we're at....... MC, IC, R'ish

Posts: 214 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest US
Kierst13
♀ Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, October 11th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is really what I meant also. If this trip was more important than me and our M. Then truly I want him to go, because it does speak volumes to me. It speaks volumes about our M, about his remorse about how he feels about me and about where our journey may lead. If he isn't willing to give up one of the half dozen boys trips he goes on every year, just 2 months out from bedding a hooker and throwing a grenade in the soul of the woman he vowed to protect and honor till death, well, it speaks volumes.

He has spoken, loud and clear and he did not mince his words. You told him to go if the trip was more important than your marriage, and he full on told you the trip was more important. You now know where you stand with him.

Whether or not it's a deal breaker. I honestly don't know......

Take the time to think about this.

There's a part of me that thinks WH is actually just that stupid that he doesn't realize the gravity of the situation. He may actually completely lack the ability to empathize, to come outside his self absorbed bubble.

You told him to make a choice of what was more important, unless he is unable to comprehend your statement, he knew exactly what he was choosing, and I bet he is assuming you will let it go, make a mild issue of it or get mad and then get over it. He does what he wants because he has not felt real consequences.

Can real R happen inside his bubble?

No

Can real remorse happen in his bubble?

No

Will he ever get outside his bubble to ever actually be able to 'get it'? To fully understand what he's done to me?

No if he believes you will accept the way he treats you and how he prioritizes his life.

WH will be home today....... he's been calling and texting everyday. "I miss you so bad, can't wait to get home. It's miserable here without you" Blah blah blah. WTF did you go then?

He went because he does not believe he will face any real consequences. He believes he can choose a boys trip over you and the marriage, then throw you some crumbs in the form of sweet texts and you will get over it.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
idkam
♀ Member
Member # 18375
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, October 11th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He told you to watch his actions, correct? Well you saw his actions didnt you? You told him in a round about way to choose you and the marriage and instead of choosing you and marriage he chose to spend a WHOLE week with his BOYS rather than his wife... Yeah his priorities are really in order....

What are you going to do? What do you really want out of this marriage?

Sending texts of i love yous and miss you is way for him to smooth things over so he doesnt have to argue with you when he get home....



People come into your life for a Reason, Season or a Lifetime..
Divorced

Posts: 1801 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Texas
SBB
♀ Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, October 11th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sad clown went to Vegas for his 40th with his BFF and his wife. We had planned it well before DD - then after DD during first S he had asked OWIndianSheMan to join him.

The trip happened during False R. I refused to go. He couldn't believe I wasn't going. I couldn't believe he WAS going.

I didn't tell him I didn't want him to go. I shouldn't need to. It doesn't take a fucking genius to work out it is not a good idea. I didn't want him to not go because I asked him not to, I wanted him to not go because it wasn't right.

Kinda like cheating. He would only have remained faithful had I kept him under lock and key. Even then he would have found a way. It is no way to live IMO.

He is showing you who he is. BELIEVE HIM.

The hardest part of seeing them for who they really are is believing what we are seeing.

((FoggedIn))


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
hopefulhubby00
♂ New Member
Member # 40942
Default  Posted: 1:36 AM, October 12th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fogged - "Walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools suffers harm." Its as true now as it ever was. If he really wants to heal he'd be there. My BS and I are at 1.5 mos and I can't even stand going to work.

Not to say that you should give up on him but we, the betrayers have a duty to first understand who we are, why we betrayed the BS, and how we can actually change.

Actually changing is HUGELY difficult, since most of us have had huge personality problems for most of our lives.

The only advice that I can earnestly offer is to try to be explicit when you are communicating. Be clear that you don't want him to go and call him on self-enabling behavior. My BS has been KEY to me starting to fix myself ESPECIALLY when she keeps me accountable.


Me : WH, possible SA - 30
Her: pregnant BW 29
DDAY: 1 September 2013
One Daughter (20 Mos), One more almost here.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Oct 2013
FoggedIn
♀ Member
Member # 40329
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kierst13

Thank you for your direct honesty! I appreciate it! I have people in my life that suffer the empathetic response that guides them to say what they think I want to hear. Although direct honesty isn't always easy to hear, but truth is easier to deal with than fluff in my opinion!

StrongButBroken
Exactly!! You didn't want to have to make that decision!! WS should have known it was wrong to go! When we have to be the one to hit them over the head with a 2x4, somehow it's just not the same. It would almost be the same as showing up in the hotel and forcing them to put their dick back in their pants against their wishes. Which is why I felt that if he 'really' preferred to be away on a boys trip in the midst of our life trauma. Then by all means go! And if he'd really rather consciously make the decision to be screwing a prostitute than me, then please screw on! I do not want to be with a man who would rather be with a whore. Question is, do I want to be with a man that made a conscious decision that he would rather spend a week with the guys?

HopefulHubby
Thank you as a WS for responding! What I guess is so head shaking for me is that the first few weeks he was extremely patient and present and seemed aware of what he had done and the damage he had caused. But then literally overnight, poof, he's like, we're good right? (he didn't say that, but he's behaving that way) We're going to MC, and in MC he says the right things, and for 30 minutes after we leave counseling, then it's like nothing ever happened. He acts as though nothing ever happened! He makes these crude sexual passes at me, that would've been fine a few months ago, but now?? How can he feel like it's ok? How can he feel like anything is ok? But he really acts like everything should be ok.........2 months!


D-Day 1 8/8/13 :: WH was with prostitute, I found the physical evidence 24 hours later.
Much has happened since.
Not sure where we're at....... MC, IC, R'ish

Posts: 214 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest US
Topic Posts: 18

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