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User Topic: I think I understand wayward thinking...
joeboo
♂ Member
Member # 31089
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I say that because my marriage has been devalued to non-special. All of the detachment so I could heal coupled with the newfound realization that it was never what I thought has resulted in my new perception of reality. My fww was here once. She cannot provide what I need, or at least not what I once wanted. She must have felt she was in a hopeless and unexciting relationship. She must have yearned for that which I could not give.

If I had any self confidence left, I probably wouldn't care if I were a WS either.

Its just fucking sad. A grown man so convinced he cannot please a woman enough to stay that he can't enjoy his own wife, he doesn't have enough self confidence to have an affair, and wouldn't even try to be with a woman if he got a divorce.

I was less than a wayward in her eyes.


Posts: 1210 | Registered: Feb 2011
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((joeboo))) You have value, joeboo.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9631 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like SMS said, you do have value.

As someone who has been both wayward and betrayed, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that waywardness had nothing to do with the state of our marriage at the time. In fact, my wife's affair started before I even met her.

So many times throughout the ages people have blamed affairs on their marriage, or on their spouse. The reality is, wayward behavior is very selfish. Selfish to the point where the source of it and the reason behind it has everything to do with the person participating in it.

Don't know if that helps or not, but I thought I'd pop and offer that up, just in case.

Really sorry you are hurting tonight, joeboo. Take care.


Posts: 6988 | Registered: Dec 2010
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What she thinks and does doesn't define you, jb.

YOU are worthy of love and faithfulness.

(((joeboo)))


It is better to be slapped with the truth than kissed with a lie. -Russian Proverb

Posts: 17248 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Crushed1
♀ Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If your ww thought she was in an 'unexciting and hopeless' marriage, she had the CHOICE to get a divorce. It really is that easy! You don't even have to have a good reason to divorce nowadays, any old excuse will do. Incompatible? She could have divorced. Bored? She could have found an honorable and worthwhile venture like helping at soup kitchens, delivering food to disabled homebound people...you know the list of 'good' things a person can do is practically endless. But she chose adultery and a path of lying and deceit. None of which is your fault. It is all on her.

Your ww devalued you and your marriage because she wanted to. No doubt it was her actions that have led you to feel this way about yourself joeboo. I do hope you will find love for yourself and some peace one day soon. My heart goes out to you.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9710 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
gonnabe2016
♀ Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She must have felt she was in a hopeless and unexciting relationship. She must have yearned for that which I could not give.

And I have to ask.....so what?

Are you supposed to be a circus elephant who only acts as his trainer tells him to? NO. You aren't. You are a human being with your own personality and *way* of being. If she can't love you for who you are....then that is on her. It doesn't mean that there is something wrong with YOU.

Joeboo, your situation makes me sad. You have chosen to stay with your WW and it is emotionally killing you.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7996 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
cantgetup
♀ Member
Member # 36146
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You sound like a great man. Consider that any other woman would consider herself lucky to be with you. Really.

Posts: 314 | Registered: Jul 2012
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dammit JB,
you have GOT to separate yourself from what you think she thinks.
Get out of her head.
I've said all this to you before, bud.

Its time for YOU, whatever that means to you, its time.

I want to see you thrive,JB.

What is your plan?


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2407 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So weird that I can tell you Joe that it has nothing to do with you and you are worthy of a loving relationship, yet I feel the same way and can't tell myself. Guess its easier to see someone else's value while not seeing your own. I'm sorry your hurting.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5020 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Crushed1
♀ Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, October 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A grown man so convinced he cannot please a woman enough to stay that he can't enjoy his own wife, he doesn't have enough self confidence to have an affair, and wouldn't even try to be with a woman if he got a divorce.

Joe, YOU have to UNCONVINCE (if that's even a word) yourself of this. Because...

You have chosen to stay with your WW and it is emotionally killing you.

It already has. You can build a NEW YOU when you STOP giving her actions and thoughts any credence. She is an egotistical serial cheater!!!

As a fellow BS I pray for the day you will RISE ABOVE what she's done to you and be secure in the knowledge that you are a good man who still has much to offer to the world. You have to believe this (((joeboo)))!!!


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9710 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
TwoHearts
♂ Member
Member # 20647
Default  Posted: 1:08 AM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A grown man so convinced he cannot please a woman

Been there done that and wearing the T-shirt Joe. No one can re-define how you feel about yourself after a serial cheater gets done with you, it is sad and lonely and very defeating indeed.

Staying in the relationship for the most valiant of reasons only seems to make it worse as time drags on and nothing seems to improve. A sexless life style and a WW who cannot make it better makes for long dark nights...like I said I've been there too long myself.

The only thing that helped me was not anything my WW did, nor was it anything a counselor provided.

The only person who can help you, in spite of the negative tape playing inside your head, is you. Believe it when I say that you can and will be able to find worth in your life and it will have nothing to do with sex or an affair. Those types of thoughts are only going to aggravate your grief.

Your worth will surface where you least expect it, your influence in the life of a child or an impact you make without knowing you were even important to someone. Believe in yourself enough to understand this and look for the soul who smiles at you from within. Feel the difference with your heart and not your eyes. You can't look for meaning, you first feel it and follow where it leads you.

Never forget you are not defined by another person's brokenness. Hang in there and keep up with others in here who have already been there. You will be offering us advice soon.


1Sa 22:23 (NIV) - "Stay with me; don't be afraid; the man who is seeking your life is seeking mine also. You will be safe with me."

Posts: 681 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: 2nd Place
Marathonwaseasy
♀ Member
Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my case and probably in others from what I see here wayward behaviour is like that of a teenager. Total entitlement. Lack of empathy. Selfishness. Self justification. You can't reason with a teenager. I have 2 of them and they get angry with me when it rains as if that's my fault. My fwh was in that same state of mind. Waywards basically need to grow the f@ck up.
You are not to blame
There is nothing wrong with you


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
Smokehouse
♂ Member
Member # 40203
Default  Posted: 3:39 AM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You do have value. Your thinking way too deep. Is you WW that deep? Doubtful! What is she doing to keep the marriage spicy? She fell in love with you and married you. Your confidence is down right now.

Easier said than done, but, TRY to pick yourself up, start doing things for yourself and invite her along. Do some stuff she likes to do, do some stuff you like to do.

You should also have this conversation with your WW. She wanted R I am guessing as well. She will tell you your thinking is rubbish. Be honest with her, let her tell you that you have worth. Then believe it my friend.

Honestly, I looked at myself much the same for the last few months. I thought no way can I be interesting enough for her to want to stay with me. Before the affair my marriage was lacking, my fault and her fault. Then the A, devastating my friend. But, after 2 months or so, I just hated being so depressed. I just picked up my game, my attention towards my wife, notes, cards, flowers, activities, shopping, dinner, etc... I wanted to fucking live again even though she devastated me. I needed her to help me. She was bad at it at first, so instead of sulking and criticizing her for it, I pitched in. It truly helped me so much and her game and love for me picked up. Now, every day, she tells me how sorry she is for hurting me, for hurting us! Tears in her eyes when she says it. Your wife needs to see you again my friend. Find him and bring him out!

[This message edited by Smokehouse at 3:41 AM, October 10th (Thursday)]


Posts: 147 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Ohio
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's a great big world out there. Each day is kind and beautiful for some subset of people; the same day is devastating and cruel to others.

Don't let the entire span of your sexual existence be defined by the PAST action of one "non-special" woman.

Pleasure or Pain? Your choice.

IC may help.

I wish for you great pleasure!


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
ionlytalkedtoher
♀ Member
Member # 39802
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

everyone has value!

Posts: 262 | Registered: Jul 2013
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I understand wayward thinking...

Y'know, maybe you do - but not in the way you think you do.

I believe WSes cheat as a way to avoid facing their pain. I think you're wallowing in your pain, not facing it. You're acknowledging it in the virtual world, but you're unwilling to face your own pain.

That's what's fucking sad, brother.

You picked a deeply flawed mate. That was a big mistake, but you have all the resources you need to correct it.

You may need help, though. Find yourself a good IC, dig deep, and take your place among your fellow men.

And drop that 'please a woman' crap! Women are responsible for their own orgasms. (Of course, helping them along and being helped by them is a great pleasure, and that pleasure is available to you....)

Joe, with apologies to Walt Kelly, you have met the problem, and he is you - and it's just a small adjustment to switch from being an obstacle to being good to yourself.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:23 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10048 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
joeboo
♂ Member
Member # 31089
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry I have not been able to respond for a long while.

Thank you for all the replies. Much food for thought.

I think I erred in mixing my revelation with the intense emotions associated with it. My biggest point was the ability to walk a mile in her shoes. I seen my marriage and her with so little value that I could consider cheating with little concern for any commitment to her or the marriage.

Realizing all that brought on the incredible emotions and shock that she was once there too. Who knows, maybe she is still there.

My point was followed by my temper tantrum of self pity. I still feel that way, but I should have left it out of the post.

On the bright side, I am moving on with my life. I have taken a promotion somewhere that I wanted to live. fww has come with me, but it wasn't my primary concern. I may never be able to fully enjoy the pleasures of the flesh, but there is so much more out there and I want to find some of it.


Posts: 1210 | Registered: Feb 2011
Crushed1
♀ Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there is so much more out there and I want to find some of it.

Joeboo, that is one of the most positive things I have ever heard you say! And I'm so glad to hear you say it! Keep that thought going friend!!!


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9710 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
dindy
♀ Member
Member # 38424
Default  Posted: 3:10 AM, October 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You need to flip your thinking around and look at how worthless she is.

If you were so worthless she would have just walked away by doing the decent thing and divorcing you.

Instead, because of her own feelings of low self worth she had to find that in someone else to justify her feelings.

That my friend has nothing to do with you.

Whether you stay or D is a sign that you have bucket loads of self worth.

If you stay you are showing her that your self worth is what is allowing her the gift of R.

If you D, you are showing her that your self worth will not be compromised.

You have the love and power to make choices that are best for you, not her.

Hugs and believe in yourself.


Posts: 459 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: uk
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, October 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What Crushed said. That's great, Joe!

One great pleasure for me, which I enjoy almost every day, is drinking a couple of cups of coffee as part of my breakfast. I'll think of you enjoying something as I drink my coffee tomorrow.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10048 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
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