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Divorce/Separation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Ongoing manipulation and my poor son
stupidstupidme
♀ Member
Member # 11888
Helpless  Posted: 11:37 AM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've said it on here many many times, but the Bunt has SO much to face and deal with without FT manipulating him and mentally fucking with him. It makes me SOOOO sad to know that there's only so much I can do.

I posted a couple months ago about the songs from OW that he had Bunt come home and play for me... it's always something.

The new thing:

Our custody order states that each of us can call Bunt any day that he is with the other parent, between 6:00 PM and 8:00 PM. If we pulled phone records from the last three years, facts would show that it's about 80-20 that I get my phone calls answered or a call back. 80% yes - 20% no answer or return call. My records would show that 99% they are answered or returned. The 1% would be for something like we were on a car trip and he fell asleep and went straight to bed - and at those times, I text to let his father know why he can't talk.

However... FT is now telling Bunt that Bunt MUST call him while he is with me. He says to call him each day, and that he has to - FT can't call me because I never let him talk to Bunt (completely false). Bunt now frets over calling his father, stating how if he doesn't he will "be in big trouble"

Last week he was with me Wed-Mon, my five day stretch. He never asked to call his dad, and FT never called. Bunt had a busy, wonderful time at soccer, with friends, etc...

He was with FT Mon and Tues, and came back to me yesterday. First thing out of his mouth (and witnessed by my roommate who's jaw dropped) was how mad his dad was at him and how he got in big trouble. I said what kind of trouble - he said "well first of all we sat down and had a little talk... daddy said I have to call him and not forget ever... because what if he was killed, and I didn't know"

Come the fuck on!! To my SEVEN year old??? REALLY?


Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing. Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength
August Wilson

Posts: 19714 | Registered: Aug 2006
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I deal with something very, very similar. I have to tell my children repeatedly that missed phone calls are not something to stress about and cry over. My STBX insists on nightly phone calls and had it put into our legal paperwork. Any time we're out & about or otherwise miss a call he grills the kids the next day to the point they feel like absolute shitheads & cry.

I try so hard to let them know they have the right to have their own life. It's a process. A long learning process. I hope they can understand before STBX destroys them. At age seven I don't know that it's possible to help them understand.

I think you should get your lawyer and a counselor involved. This should not be permitted to go unchallenged.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9480 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Faithful w/Love
♀ Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a DICKHEAD! Who does that to a 7 years let alone a child of any age. Sounds to me like he has to have control. And he is trying to control your son when he is with you. And why the fuck does he not get off his lazy fuckin A-HOLE and use the fingers God gave him to call your son? Isn't he the adult? Sorry, but he is a ASSFACE!!


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 19 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
False R. Still Lying.
Will be divorcing soon!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"!

Posts: 2661 | Registered: Aug 2011
hummingbird8
♀ Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would send one message that says custody papers state HE is able to call every night not that Bunt has to call him. He can make the effort or not talk to him.

Posts: 469 | Registered: Aug 2009
abbycadabby
♀ Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((SSM)))

I deal with something eerily similar to this.

My exH is also manipulative, pulling shit like, when my 5 year old doesn't want to talk to him, he's:

1) said "why are you being ugly to daddy?"
2) said "there's no reason for you to not want to talk to your daddy. I haven't done anything to you."
3) Cried.
4)Pulled the poor pitiful me act.
5)Some combination of the above.

He's even gone so far as to gripe at me because I'm "teaching DS it's okay to disrespect others by not requiring him to talk."

I replied that he was teaching MORE disrespect because he's demonstrating that DS' feelings as an autonomous human being don't matter.

I get so, SO angry at the crap he pulls sometimes. Conversely, when DS calls me from his dad's house, it's usually of his dad's prompting and is really a tactic to keep up with what I'm doing (I've heard ex feeding DS lines like "ask mama where she is/who she's with/what she's doing.") If DS tells me he doesn't want to talk to me, I try to model good behavior by responding "okay. I'm not going to make you talk to me if you don't want to right now. Call me back if you'd like to talk to me later."

DS only exists to ex as an extension of ex. When we were married, I was an extension of ex, and he often referred to me condescendingly as "my wife."

I just keep trying my best to correct ex if necessary and just turn the phone off if I can't correct him because he can escalate rather quickly. If DS came home saying what Bunt said, I'd tell him:

1)at no point over the past few days has your dad called you. The phone works both ways. If he'd like to talk to you, he knows your number.

2)Anytime you want to talk to your dad, all you have to do is ask and we'll call him.

3)That was not nice for your dad to try to make you feel guilty. Would you like for me to talk to him about it?

well first of all we sat down and had a little talk... daddy said I have to call him and not forget ever... because what if he was killed, and I didn't know"

This is utter horseshit. I think I'd fly off the handle and have a come to Jesus meeting with ex, away from DS. As I stated before, the phone works both ways so the asshole could have called at any time- he shouldn't make Bunt responsible for HIS (ex's) emotions.

I honestly know what you're going through. It sucks like nothing else- especially when you just want to protect your child from his manipulative and emotionally abusive father.

I personally wouldn't be able to let this one go. I'd have to say something to stick up for my child.

Sometimes, the only thing that gives me hope is my IC. She says her ex was like this when their DS was small. She said there was one time he had affected her DS so badly that her DS was curled into a fetal position on the floor just sobbing- at 3 years old. She says that she had to model to her DS how to manage interactions with his dad. She said that finally, at 20-something, her DS drew a hard line in the sand and now essentially has no contact with his father.

I don't know what else to tell you other than to say look into counseling for both of you.

(((SSM)))
(((Bunt)))


Posts: 1228 | Registered: Feb 2010
stupidstupidme
♀ Member
Member # 11888
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did address the OW song thing, because he had told Bunt to play them for me, and said I "love" them.

However, I carefully choose what to address. The first reason is that I have sole legal custody, and I will NOT jeopardize that for anything. I do not want to send too many "argumentative" emails, because I've learned how he uses them in court. Basically, he is the one that accuses me of being controlling.

The other thing is that Bunt is already hesitant to share a lot of what his father says to him. He's afraid... I can tell. I fear that addressing issues just leads to his dad getting mad at him and warning him not to tell me things... again - manipulating that as me "starting fights" with him, or me "trying to cause trouble". NPD's are SOOOO good at twisting anything and everything to suit their agenda. Always gotta think it through VERY carefully when and how is the best way to protect your child... definitely learned this over the past several years.

Bunt was in counseling and she quit her private practice... JUST as he was opening up and talking freely to her, without anyone in the room. At the time, FT refused to encourage him to stay alone with her, and said he would never let him when he brought him, so the counselor cut him out of participation. He threatened her, but she didn't care, and said to him point blank that she was acting without bias in the best interest of the BUNT. I LOVED her...

Gotta find another one like her... he needs it.


Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing. Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength
August Wilson

Posts: 19714 | Registered: Aug 2006
abbycadabby
♀ Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

However, I carefully choose what to address

I understand.

I do not want to send too many "argumentative" emails, because I've learned how he uses them in court. Basically, he is the one that accuses me of being controlling.

I understand that too. But my IC says that ex is going to do what ex wants to do, regardless of how I feel about it. For the most part I don't engage. But there are times when something is that important to me that I feel I need to. I have to stick up for my child, no one will do it for me.

Sometimes I let things go. I often don't engage, much to the dismay of a couple of people around me. But when I feel it's important, I will initiate a conversation even if he DOES want to use it in court. I have to let that fear of court go- and really, I don't know the laws in your state, but where I live, ex would have to prove I'm an unfit mother- like drinking and drugging and taking DS to crackhouses or something- in order to wrest custody from me. And since the D has been final, we have a custody/visitation precedent, so it will be even harder to do.


NPD's are SOOOO good at twisting anything and everything to suit their agenda.

I know. There were times in my marriage that I thought I was the one going crazy. Even though I knew rationally that I wasn't. It's a mess.

Find a new counselor for Bunt. Get some counseling for yourself. Hugs all around!


Posts: 1228 | Registered: Feb 2010
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The other thing is that Bunt is already hesitant to share a lot of what his father says to him. He's afraid... I can tell. I fear that addressing issues just leads to his dad getting mad at him and warning him not to tell me things... again - manipulating that as me "starting fights" with him, or me "trying to cause trouble". NPD's are SOOOO good at twisting anything and everything to suit their agenda. Always gotta think it through VERY carefully when and how is the best way to protect your child... definitely learned this over the past several years.

This is my nightmare reality, too. I know people here can get frustrated with me at my sometimes apparent lack of action. What people don't realize is the total brainwashing that happens to children when they have a hostile NPD parent who's bent on destroying the other parent. My children will not repeat anything to anyone. Period. They won't. This isn't the fault of the counselors or whoever. This is the fault of STBX. They only barely tell ME things on rare occasions, and it's always wrapped in phrases about how they don't want to get Dad in trouble, they don't want me to get mad at Dad, it's not Dad's fault, they don't want Dad to get mad at them for telling. Their father has them convinced that they need to keep all these secrets, and if they don't bad things will happen to Dad. They are terrified that if they screw up, they'll lose their dad. They are even terrified that if they make ME mad then I'll throw them out of the house without warning, just like I did to Dad.

Until you see/hear this coming from your own child, it's not possible to even imagine that there are parents like this who truly do mindfuck their own children.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9480 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
devistatedmom
♀ Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, October 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SSM, then I'd go the other way to help him. Around 7pm, or when you get home, just give him a quick reminder...if you want to call dad before bed, you can do it anytime now. Then leave it. If he is having that much anxiety about it, a reminder to help him remember will help, at least at first. He will probably jump as soon as you say it for the first few weeks...and down the road, he will have days when he decides just to go to bed, or finish his game, or whatever. But for NOW, it will help his anxiety, and dad won't be mad at him. Document what he said for down the line...because you KNOW you will be back in court with the ass at some point.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5407 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
Topic Posts: 9

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