How do we know that the LTA we found out about was the only one?
Wouldnt the natural response of a WS if asked if there were other LTAs be to lie? Especially if they had gotten away with it and there was no way of proving that anything went on.
WW was quite a busy girl when we met. And after M had LOTS of inappropriate relationships with men she worked with. I complained allot about these but she always put me off saying I was too jealous and seeing things that werent there.
Not that it matters much now. Unless of course my kids are not really mine. Still tho I wonder.
Tough question, no good answer.
I guess that's why we look for remorse, transparency, etc. Looking for big behavior change that suggests they're serious about the straight and narrow.
But, you never know, and have to somehow get OK with that. BTW, even D won't fix this problem now that women cheat about as much as men. A new model might have the same manufacturing defect as the first one.
My WW made it clear that she was never, ever going to volunteer a single thing and only confirm what I already knew with a Yes or No answer. So I had to decide, was she hiding more bad things that mattered, or was she just suffering from enough toxic shame that's all I was going to get.
After a fair amount of detective work and triangulation I decided it was the latter. But, I also had to sit myself down and decide if there was more I didn't know about I wasn't going to let myself obsess about it. Not easy, not happy, but good enough.
But, I also had to sit myself down and decide if there was more I didn't know about I wasn't going to let myself obsess about it.
If your going to stay.
First choice is total honesty but if you feel shame is holding her back, you have to let it go. Now, how do you do that? What if there is more stuff that matters? UUUHG!
I shouldn't post sober.
Absolutely, I had the "sit down" with myself AFTER I decided to stay. Actually, quite a while afterwards.
I don't how to tell somebody else how to tell how they know enough. I wasn't sure myself. In some ways, I'm still not, and it's been over 30 years.
I guess I just decided the devil I knew was better than breaking one I didn't.
Point is she has changed. She grew up. She doesn't do all the selfish shit she did way back then. Still some but not near the amount nor ruthlessness of the past.
So, if I measure my marriage by today, it is awesome. Add in the lies and infidelity of the past; not so much. THAT's why I need to let it go. Just have to figure out how.
I don't how to tell somebody else how to tell how they know enough.
For me, it was body language.
A silver haired man leaning into his silver haired wife, remarking on my floozy who just walked past them,
Something about his leaning into her with a one word storied comment, and her leaning in with shake of a head reply
in wordless words
in true vignette, it happened right there!
I knew enough.
I don't know how to tell any one else when they know enough either, but I think inside, anyone knows. You Just Know, like the clickin of a light switch, though truth be told, it had to be clicked several stupid painful times for m,e...
Truth be told, I post here to show you my stumbles and fukups, we're brothers after all, saying classic and poet and everything else makes me weep, yeah my emotions are closer to the surface
So, I decided to just stop. I would bottle it up, keep it inside, handle it all on my own. She wasn't helping in my healing anyway. I told her that I see that she can't handle dealing with the past, and I was going to do what she had pleaded many times before. I was going to just focus on right now. Tomorrow I would focus on tomorrow, and so on. I told her that if we were to stay together it would depend on what she did today. I said that she treated me like shit in the past but for her to "don't treat me like shit today". I said I didn't feel loved in the past, show me you love me today. I didn't feel wanted in the past, show me you want me today. You lied in the past, be honest today. We will focus on today, everyday.
She lit up as quick as a light bulb when you flip the light switch. No longer miserable, no longer shutting me out. Instantly our relationship improved. She is there for me, for the first time. She is loving, affectionate, and...she has actually began to talk to me about the past. Nothing too major or deep, but she started the talk, she engaged it, she didn't shut down afterwards. Still a long way to go...but progress.
I still don't know if I know everything. I feel like there is more she's hiding. But, I keep telling myself, today is good. If so, does the past really matter?
[This message edited by doubleboggy at 10:03 PM, October 11th (Friday)]
Sure she'd light up at the deal she wouldn't have to own her own shit, and you'd bargain for peace by bottling it all up, keeping your mouth shut.
Revealing your true emotional needs gets you punished with her anger - and you bottle it up? To me, that's a recipe for disaster - for a repeat.
Now, what's interesting is that you are noting that some of the past stuff is coming out...and you're hoping for more
Clearly, the past is important. I guess your method is working somewhat, maybe like pushing a loaded wheelbarrow with a flat tire, I'm just concerned about the effort...the sacrifice of your needs for temporary relational peace.
That'll wear on you.
I believe you deserve better.
There's a reason they plunk statues in public.
[This message edited by jjct at 7:11 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]
I agree with JJ. Sounds like rugsweeping to me. I did that 16 years ago when my then fiance cheated on me. I married her, we pushed it under the rug, and 12 years into the marriage she cheated again. Said she forgot how much it hurt me the last time. I would advise not rugsweeping.
We have our first MC session in three days. Hopefully that will help.
It's very helpful in my experience DB, if you find the right MC. Our first MC didn't even act like he thought my wife did anything wrong. I think he had the hots for her. So after two sessions, we changed MCs to our current one, and she has been awesome. Told my wife inside of 5 minutes of our first meeting that she betrayed not just me, but the kids as well. My wife nodded right along. She wanted the truth, and wanted to start healing.
There are all kinds of counselors out there. I hope you find a good one.
I know it's rug sweeping. Just don't know how to change it.
Glad that you know it. OK that you donít know how to change it. You get help (MC and maybe IC) and use the Menz as a sounding board on whatís happening in MC.
I wish Tred had the market cornered on this shit but my story is the same. She cheated when we were engaged. Found out after we M and after trying to work through it we went to an MC who advised the rugsweep. A few days after first MC she started again.
Like Sal said, you have to find the right MC to get any value from it.
Been talking to my W about getting on here as well. I think she has already read a bit of what is on here, but I'd like her to chine in as well (just not in the menz thread, of course).
We had 'date night' last night. Anyone else feel awkward on dates with their W? Like, awkward silences and lots of staring off into space and stuff? I was really hoping that it wasn't going to be like that, but it was. I kept trying to get her to talk and open up and have fun and laugh... but there was tension and our conversations always circled back around to 'us'. I've written before that my wife and I have had issues with connecting before, and I think that was the problem last night. She said that I put up walls and was being distant, but I would have said the same thing about her. I kept trying to get her to talk...not about us, but just conversation. I love to talk, but one sided conversations are awkward.
Anyone else in this boat with me? Really struggling with this. My W and I really drifted way apart, even before the A, and of course the A didn't help things. Really having a hard time reconnecting with her.
She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.
Anyone else in this boat with me? Really struggling with this. My W and I really drifted way apart, even before the A, and of course the A didn't help things.
Yep, same here. I am getting to the point where I am past the A-crap, but not feeling much for my FWW. I had hopes. I got to healing, and addressed some of my issues. She has been working on her stuff, but there is just no connection or fun left. I have been very clear talking with her explaining what I need to feel connected, we have talked about it in MC, but no go.
I was ready to separate and D about a year ago, then she lost her job and I cannot afford house, DSs in college AND paying her. She says she does not want to D and wants us to be together. I think a big part of the problem is her depression. The MC/IC is working on her with this, but she has to want to change.
She is out of town this weekend visiting her DD and grandchild. I think it is a bad sign I enjoy my time more when she is gone than when she is here. While she has been gone I have been out with friends, went for a bike ride, out on the boat. No listening to her complain about how unfair life is and that it is not her fault a job was no longer available after she waited 3 days to apply. Sure, no sex when she is gone, but only 1-2x a month when she is here, and then only right before going to sleep.
If I could afford D and kids in college I would do it, maybe after they finish. It is not that I am looking for or want anything better, I just feel like I get nothing from being M to her.
Prior to dday things were not good, but I always thought they could get better. Now things are better, but I think "not bad" is about as good as I am going to have with her.
For you guys that have spouses on here, any thoughts or ground rules you all set?
It can backfire. My wife isn't on here, but lurks. She saw my post from earlier in the week when I called her a crazy bitch. Apparently she wasn't moved sufficiently by the "I love her" part of the same sentence. Tonight was supposed to be date night, but that's shot to hell now.
Hey, I wish I didn't know that SI existed. I do only because of her betrayal, and it's been a Godsend.
Just know that us lurkers are getting good therapy from you men.
That's good to hear UnAware43. Your thoughts and opinions are just as valid as any of ours, so don't be a stranger.
Have a great weekend, gents.
[This message edited by Sal1995 at 7:48 PM, October 12th (Saturday)]