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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 15
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She got laid but I got to keep my honor and integrity. She's a shell of what she was but I'm a man who knows he's faithful and trustworthy.

I hear you Mr. Kite, that's what I keep telling myself. It's not much of a consolation prize, but it'll have to do.

It's funny, but my wife is just convinced that I was up to no good at some point in our marriage, at least an EA. She can't give any specifics, but just feels that something had to have happened. She's completely full of shit, I'll take a poly right now, swear to a priest with a hand on the Bible, whatever. My conscience is clear. But it illustrates how fucked up her FOO was/is. She literally can't conceive of a man keeping his vows to forsake all others. Never saw that modeled. Really sad.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But she wasn't committed to him, so I guess in her mind he wasn't the "threat" to her that I was.

Word. Fucking word.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Uhtred
♂ Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guys,

I haven't been here in a while due to work and other obligations but it's good to be back. I remember a thread on here a while back about all of our private thoughts about our WS's.

I've been trying my best to R with my wayward wife but find it extremely difficult to accept her back for the slut she proved to be. My thoughts about her always include whore, slut, bitch, and every other imaginable thing. I'm not sure I'll ever change this opinion of her as I feel that she is tainted forever and I want nothing to do with her. I have two young children to think about and no matter what I'm going to be the bad guy if I break my family apart.

I'm 6 months in and this hasn't gotten any better for me. Now I'll give my WW this that she is trying very hard to R with me and trying her best to fix the mess she has imposed on me. I'm still on the roller coaster for the most part and stay pissed of 90 percent of the time.

She just posted her story in the Wayward forum a day or so ago. Her handle is Ihtoiltm and post is My Horrible Actions. She failed to mention a lot of detail but her story is there.

She claims that she did none of this for sex or love but for validation which I find to be mostly bull shit. I have most of the texts messages and emails between her and AP and they suggest something entirely different.

Most of the texts are about how much she loves and cares for the man and what a special love they really do have for one another. There is talk about how nice it would be to be married to this man that is 30+ years her senior. He calls her by his last name and she says how it melts her heart and how it could be just them two of them saying I do to one another and moving my two boys in with them.

She goes into detail about how their love is really real and the AP agrees with her. She claims that she wanted out of this affair and was beginning to see the light. Weeks before I found out I told her with tears in my eyes that something was wrong and she was gaslighting the shit out of me. I told her this again two days before I found out and again more gaslighting.

I have pictures and texts that she sent to the AP 3 days before I found out, she sent pics of herself masturbating and telling him how she couldn't wait for their next encounter. Remember that she claimed she wanted out of the affair but this certainly doesn't look like someone wanting out.

I guess my point is why can't they just admit that they were being sluts. Why does it always have to go to needing validation or foo? My wife has two perfectly good parents and grew up in a damn good home. Something I cant say for myself.

I finally told her today what I was really thinking and that I didn't seem to think much else. It's hard to accept someone back if you think they are a whore and that they are tainted. I don't even know if it was right of me to tell her what I was really thinking. I still love the bitch but not like I used to.

What are you guys thoughts on WW using validation and other things as excuses instead of just admitting that they were sluts and whores and did this because it felt good? Why do they always have to think they were damaged before hand and that's why they did this? I'm assuming so that we don't think that they were just being sluts and whores?

What do all you menz think about this?


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 415 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thoughts about her always include whore, slut, bitch, and every other imaginable thing. I'm not sure I'll ever change this opinion of her as I feel that she is tainted forever and I want nothing to do with her.

You're 6 months in. If she keeps doing the work you say she's doing, that'll hopefully change.

She just posted her story in the Wayward forum a day or so ago.

Yeah, I read that. If my wayward posted on here, my hope-meter would go through the roof. But alas...

Uhtred - what I've found is that people either lie to avoid getting their comeuppance or to get something they want from someone else. I suspect that she lied to both of you for different reasons.

What are you guys thoughts on WW using validation and other things as excuses instead of just admitting that they were sluts and whores and did this because it felt good?

Because the mind minimizes in order to protect the person's ego or sense of self. For example, taking items home from work or from the hotel they just stayed at is not really stealing to some, because then they would have to own the label of being a thief. No, it's because "everyone does it" or for some other reason their brain comes up with. And screwing other guys and lying about it is "making a mistake," or because their husband is an a$$hole or...(and the list is endless). To admit sluttiness and own up for their behavior takes some WW's a long time. In my situation it's never happened.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
Uhtred
♂ Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know I feel bad for bitching about it. Some of the stories I've read on here have got mine beat hands down. My wife is trying her hardest to reconcile but also is like a cat covering up shit.

It just rubs me the wrong way. I guess in a way I am lucky that she is at least trying. I guess I just have one foot in the door and one out and am not committed. Any little thing sets me off and her denying her feelings for the om pisses me off to no end.


I threw my wedding ring in the garbage today. I'm still wearing my feelings on my sleeve I guess. In the end I guess this may have been a deal breaker for me. It's a damn shame.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 415 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Late on a saturday and I am feeling rather....existential, and something popped into my head. So... question for you fine gentlemen who are trying to R:

If it had been you who had had the A, do you think your W would have tried to R with you?


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well slope, my nutty wayward -without a shred of evidence, thanks I must have cheated at some point, so i guess the answer is yes.

Uhtred, I feel your pain brother. Less than 9 months out, and feel the same way. To say the marriage has been tainted is an understatement.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...but for validation...

^^^Uhtred, I think that translates to I was on drugs and was willing to do anything to get another hit. Get that wedding ring out of the garbage, dumb ass. Worst case you can sell it for the gold weight.
If it had been you who had had the A, do you think your W would have tried to R with you?

^^^ontheslope, if I had a RA now, she would probably not choose R. But six years ago I was in Vegas for a few days and actually went dark on my wife and kids for 48 hours...let's just say that my WW was 100% convinced I was screwing around - picking women up - or fooling around with someone from our Vegas office. WW as very, very upset. She said nothing. Just internalized it. Assumed I was just like 'all other men' . And soldiered on... I was stupid, acting like a teenager, but I was not having an A... and I have sure paid for that bill.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:47 PM, November 2nd (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Uhtred
♂ Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know fellas it's funny you mention the tables being turned. My wife has threatened me with this her entire career and turn out she's the one who has no honor.

She always told me what I would lose if I cheated on her and now look where she is.

About the ring, what's done is done, I tossed that puppy in a big pile of goo in a dumpster at work. It was Tungsten and not really worth shit. I feel a little lighter anyway.

I wish when I had my finger taken off it would've been my wedding ring finger instead of my right ring finger. Damn the luck!


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 415 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uhtread, the A is always running it's course when D day happens, or so they say. How convenient.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
HotSauce
♂ New Member
Member # 40309
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While some people have A’s because they’re not “getting enough”, it’s a truism that waywards are often the ones in an M that are not “giving enough”. That was my WW, a FOO-driven fear of intimacy that she countered by getting intimate with the OM. Spread it thin enough, you don’t notice how scary it is. Me, I was trying to go deep, which was part of the problem. Who knew?

This is the best thing I have read in a long time. Very true in my case.


Married 16 years
D-Day 2/8/13

Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
Lotsa
♂ Member
Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do all you menz think about this?

I imagine nearly everyone could come up with a laundry list of shit that's happened to them in their lifetime which, if they were that way inclined, could be used to "justify" all manner of shit. But not everyone who's suffered hardship/adversity goes out and inflicts pain on others or fucks around on their significant other. For me, that's why the the "reasons", or the "why" for my WW's A (however real they are to her) will never make sense to me.

Spend a few days in a court room dealing with criminal cases and you'll hear all manner or "reasons" put forward by a defendant in an effort to explain their offending. Poor upbringing, FOO issues, or whatever is the "flavour of the day", will never be an excuse for their actions/choices. It may explain them or put them in some form of context, but it doesn't excuse their criminality, justify it or make it OK. From a criminal justice perspective, they are mitigating factors only.

Speak to the victims of crime and I'm sure you'll find very few who give a flying fuck about the less than ideal upbringing of the scumbag that broke into their house, stole their car or robbed them. Whether the dirtbag was beaten by his old man or suffered SAB as a child, by and large, has no relevance to the victims if they otherwise have no connection with the perp.

That's the difference however in the case of a BS faced with having to decide on whether to R with a WS. We have to decide whether we can continue to live with the person who "offended" against us, or instead cut the cord and D.

I've had years of experience in the criminal justice system and many offenders are only too happy to simply affix a label to try and excuse away their behaviour and then sit back and play the victim (and in most cases subsequently reoffend as a result). They don't own their shit. Playing the victim and affixing a label to your offending as justification alone is the easy way out and in my mind doesn't even get you to first base when dealing with the question of reconciling after an A. The hard work is actually in addressing those issues and redeeming yourself.

Whatever my WW may label as her "why", there was a point in time where she gave herself permission to fuck another dude without any consideration of the consequences to me or our relationship (or at the very least scant disregard for them). At the end of the day the only conclusion I can reach that makes any sense to me is that my WW had her A because she could, she wanted to and she enjoyed it.

For me (at least), the "reasons" put forward by my WW are only secondary, background noise to the bigger picture. Whatever happens to be her "why" will never excuse her betrayal. I'm much more interested in tangible stuff that I can understand and measure such as whether her behaviour was, by and large, uncharacteristic. Is she remorseful? Is she capable of digging deeper than simply affixing a label to her "why" and instead working on ensuring she is "rehabilitated" and doesn't "reoffend". Actions not words…

It takes more than just scanning the Interweb and finding a diagnosis that fits and hoping all will simply be forgiven as a result. There's far more to it than that. Asking the question of "why" and exploring the "reasons" are only a first (but important) step IMO. Trust, honour, respect and integrity has got to be re-earned. It's a long road back in many cases, but for some it's not an impossible task. That said, we all have limits. To the extent that an A is a deal breaker, so be it. Every action has a consequence.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 11:58 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been trying my best to R with my wayward wife but find it extremely difficult to accept her back for the slut she proved to be. My thoughts about her always include whore, slut, bitch, and every other imaginable thing. I'm not sure I'll ever change this opinion of her as I feel that she is tainted forever and I want nothing to do with her. I have two young children to think about and no matter what I'm going to be the bad guy if I break my family apart.

This is exactly where I'm at. Up until three weeks or so ago R was going along well, then I learn my innocent Sunday Schol teacher wife was basically a cum-dumpster hose queen with her OM, doing sexual things for him she would never do for me.

We heven't had sex since that second D-Day, even though she has tried depserately to get me to make love to her. My whole perception of her has completely changed. Yeah, before I was hurt and angry. Now I'm disgusted and repulsed by her.

I lay next to her and look at her sleeping and, objectively, she is a beautiful woman with a killer body. Few men would pass up an opportunity to sleep with her. But subjectively, this woman who I have spent 22 years with, who bore my children, who stood by me through dealing with my PTSD from the Gulf War, who had for the first twenty years been my best friend and confidant....

She threw it all away for a younger guy...for a piece of strange who she admits she knew very well only wanted her for sex even when she was meeting with him three days a week....

I look at her sleeping and I feel like I'm laying next to a stranger.

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 12:03 AM, November 4th (Monday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whatever my WW may label as her "why", there was a point in time where she gave herself permission to fuck another dude without any consideration of the consequences to me or our relationship (or at the very least scant disregard for them). At the end of the day the only conclusion I can reach that makes any sense to me is that my WW had her A because she could, she wanted to and she enjoyed it.

Right there.

There it is.

Thank you brother. Thank you.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DefeatedDad, really sorry to read what you posted.

I presume now she will do all of those formerly forbidden things with you?

did she say why she would do them for him and not for you?

I don't know if I could handle that. I'm sorry.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 3:22 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my point is why can't they just admit that they were being sluts. Why does it always have to go to needing validation or foo?

I'll try not to be too scientific.

An affair or any significant event that should never have happened is almost always the result of several complex why's aligning, occurring, and causing. The key to preventing re-occurrence of a significant event is identifying the right whys to fix, aka, the right problems to fix.

For example, an outsider can offer "you didn't control her" as a problem. This is a "why", however, this is NOT a problem. However some BSs attempt to "fix" this for the long haul, and fail, and continue living unhappy. Also note we often "fix" this temporarily, as a short term corrective action, while the BS is working on the important "whys" in parallel. This is ok, short term only.

"she's a slut" is also a "why". However, this is a problem she cannot fix without asking deeper questions. She always knew being a slut was wrong. What compelled her so? -Why did she think it was ok? Why did she need the attention so badly, from a man 30+ years her senior? Why was her thought process so f'd up? Why could she not see the pig in this man, and why did it not disgust her? Why did she not see this as hair of the dog?

My wife has two perfectly good parents and grew up in a damn good home.

Are you sure? Or, how about the neighbor boy, or neighbor boy's father? Or, was she bullied? Obviously you cant fix these people, or even if you could it doesn't help, but being able to see how they contributed might make her understand how f'd up her thinking was.

[This message edited by still-living at 3:38 AM, November 4th (Monday)]


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14

My dog farted, startled himself, wondered where the noise came from. I wish my life was as simple.


Posts: 629 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
doubleboggy
♂ Member
Member # 40622
Default  Posted: 3:35 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lotsa,


Brilliant...you hit the nail squarely on the head with that post. Your comparison of wayward to criminals is dead on.

The likely hood of recidivism verses rehabilitation is the big question we BS have to decide after D day. Waywards are a lot like criminals in that they stole our trust, hope, and happines; then assaulted our emotions and piece of mind. Then left us bleeding in the ditch.


I have became what I have beheld and am content that I have done right. - Elliot Ness

Posts: 84 | Registered: Sep 2013
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DefeatedDad, really sorry to read what you posted.
I presume now she will do all of those formerly forbidden things with you?

Yes, when she saw I was about ready to pull the lever on the D again she said she would do those things for me.

Yeah... made me feel good, knowing it took threat of D to get her to open up sexually.


did she say why she would do them for him and not for you?

From what I have gleaned through MC and talking to her, most of it stems from her ultra-conservative Christian upbringing. She was basically taught sex was naughty and wrong, and that it was only for procreation. Problem is she is High Drive, and wanted to do the nastier stuff. But she thought doing those things with her husband was wrong and improper and would make me lose respect for her... even though I had asked her to do these things many times throughout our marriage.

When her younger stud came along, she dove into it with gusto, because with him she could be the slut she always wanted to be because she really didn't care what he thought of her.

It is so fucked up. But I think she is seeing that now and to her credit she has been working through this hangup with her IC.

I don't know if I could handle that. I'm sorry.

I dont know if I can either. We have hit a huge roadblock to R with this. A rockslide actually, that has buried the road for a hundred yards. She has lots of digging to do.

I'm really thinking we aren't going to make it. But I won't tell her that.

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 8:20 AM, November 4th (Monday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That sucks man. I'm not in a much better place. I'm here in Afghanistan (for those that remember) and my WW is free to do what she wants. Of course, she knows that she's hanging by a thread. So... I guess I'll see. and in case you're wondering, yes, it's friggin dusty here.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That sucks man. I'm not in a much better place. I'm here in Afghanistan (for those that remember) and my WW is free to do what she wants. Of course, she knows that she's hanging by a thread. So... I guess I'll see. and in case you're wondering, yes, it's friggin dusty here.

Are you in the military Mike7?


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
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