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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 15
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

November 4th 2012 I had the carpet pulled out from under me. Thanks bitch.

Sorry Rye, stay strong brother.

I might be weird, but am actually looking forward to D Day anti-versary. I'm sure it will suck on many levels, but I'm sick and tired of telling myself "this time last year, she was..."

It'll be nice to say "this time last year, I put a stop to that shit." 3 more months to go.

ETA: Yeah, I know that my version is the positive spin. The more likely result is that we remember the day we descended into emotional hell. Maybe we can try to celebrate being a whole year removed from that.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 3:19 PM, November 4th (Monday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1028 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

According to our in-laws and church family, Christian husbands are supposed to forgive their WWs and eat the sh!t sandwich given to them without complaint.

Forgive yes, stay married no. That's up to the individual in cases of infidelity.

"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery." Matthew 5:32;19:9


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgive yes, stay married no. That's up to the individual in cases of infidelity.

"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery." Matthew 5:32;19:9

I totally and completely agree. But I'm under alot of pressure from our friends and family to rugsweep.

Not gonna do it. And if I do decideto D, I won't be cruel about it. I plan to give my WW far more than most WSs deserve in a breakup. I have no intention of putting her out in the alley.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been struggling with flashbacks and mind movies (day and night) but yesterday I had a stunning X-Rated dream starring my W right before I woke up. When I woke I discovered that she was up for a replay in real life.

This is my second ride on the roller coaster, a little "deja vu all over again" from the first time, but I must be getting close to the finish line.

Somebody gave me some advice a few months back on how to deal with the mind movies.

When you imagine them having sex, imagine your wife and OM with clown faces and rainbow afros. It helped me alot... until I found out exactly what she had done with him. It's much harder now.

Those nightmares are a bitch. I had a doozy of one myself last night, really graphic, and woke up in a cold sweat. WW was snoring away next to me. I wanted to punch her.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you imagine them having sex, imagine your wife and OM with clown faces and rainbow afros.

I'll pass. Does that actually work for anyone? I'm just not wired for that I guess.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3303 | Registered: Dec 2011
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never wanted to use something that might come back to haunt me. Now I doubt clown faces and wigs are in my future but ya just never know.

I imagined I was swinging a baseball bat and hit the bastard out of the park. Visualized like a cartoon, not the blood and violence I have seen in my dreams/nightmares. It has worked for me. Itís rare now that the images start up and when they do Iím quick with the bat.

ETA Ė it also took a lot of work dealing with the images when we were not being intimate. It really got better when my view on it all shifted away from me and POSER and more on her messed up self. Much like happiness, I donít think someone else is responsible for your own orgasm.

[This message edited by foundoutlater at 5:06 PM, November 4th (Monday)]


Your beliefs donít make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1062 | Registered: Jul 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll pass. My mind movies only last about a second or two, so no time to conjure up clowns with afros without extending the waking nightmare beyond my comfort level.

It might have been WAL, but several Menz threads ago someone recommended facing the hard reality of what happened and repeating the grisly facts over and over until it simply becomes part of your history, rather than demons that you're constantly trying to fight off or bargain with.

Maybe there's an even better middle ground - just be. Let whatever happens internally or externally happen, and give time a fair shot at healing the wounds. Ideally with the aid of IC/MC and a remorseful spouse, if you choose R.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1028 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
foundoutlater
♂ Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It might have been WAL, but several Menz threads ago someone recommended facing the hard reality of what happened and repeating the grisly facts over and over until it simply becomes part of your history, rather than demons that you're constantly trying to fight off or bargain with.

That was the part I added - the work when we were not having sex. I had gotten to the point that I did not want this to get in the way of my fun. The bat allowed me to choose when this crap would get space in my brain.


Your beliefs donít make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1062 | Registered: Jul 2011
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DD

I'm a walking, talking, high-function example of why rugsweeping is such a terrible strategy. It amazes me how many pastors, counselors, and others who should know better, not to mention in-laws and other family who might not be expected to know better all give this shitty advice.

My WW started our A Season over 30 years ago, and after a couple of years of rugsweeping and her encouragement, I "had one of my own." That's a lot of shit to get through, but we did, and everybody thinks we're a model couple, even if I found myself thinking, "This must be as good as it gets, with a SLUT" too often for my mental health. but life goes on.

Then, I recently got triggered into a wicked, incapacitating series of flashbacks. Yep, PTSD. Cold sweats, heart palpitations, dry heaves, the whole enchilada. Trust me, you DO NOT want a second ride on the roller coaster. The good thing is, it goes faster. The bad thing is, it goes faster, turns a bad carnival ride into one scary motherfucker.

And yeah, I perfected all the ways to turn down the mind movies, way back when, but I wasn't ready for a replay in 3D living color at Grateful Dead volume levels. Shitstorm redux.

I will say this, Year Two is the hardest. I was ready to give up more than twice, my WW all, "Huh? Aren't you over this by now?" at the time. If she's trying, and you still love her, give it time. OTOH, if it really is a dealbreaker for you, I'm the last guy on earth to offer anything but support.

Reminds me of a day, not related to infidelity, but something else equally vital to the core of the church's values that I stood up in my pastor's office and walked out the door, never to return. Some people just can't help being so Full of Shit that you must remove yourself from their presence.

Peace. Strength. Honor. You will prevail.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
fireguy87
♂ New Member
Member # 36992
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then, I recently got triggered into a wicked, incapacitating series of flashbacks. Yep, PTSD. Cold sweats, heart palpitations, dry heaves, the whole enchilada. Trust me, you DO NOT want a second ride on the roller coaster. The good thing is, it goes faster. The bad thing is, it goes faster, turns a bad carnival ride into one scary motherfucker.

Yep...Ditto. I could write this same statement myself and my dd was nearly 20 years ago. I triggered over something that happened early this year.

I will recommend just as others have, DO NOT rugsweep, it will com back to bite you in the ass and that sucks!

When you imagine them having sex, imagine your wife and OM with clown faces and rainbow afros.

I wish this worked for my mind movies...unfortunately not. And the sick part is that I have at various times over the years, become aroused even more during sex when they occurred. That fucking disgusts me to no end. WTF is wrong with me to be turned on by that shit. I would almost be sick to my stomach the next day.

I'm looking at going to an IC here in the near future to help deal with this crap.

And in all of this, my W has no idea I'm going through it all.

ETA: For you guys still new to this and wondering about the future, I don't regret any decision I've made to stay and reconcile. She has stayed with me and we do love each other and we do have respect for each other. We have made a life, children and many wonderful memories since the A. I do wish we weren't tainted by those past events, but I can't change it. Except for the triggering this year, which has been the hardest for me mentally, I am happy with my wife, my marriage, and my life.

[This message edited by fireguy87 at 7:19 PM, November 4th (Monday)]


Me - FBH
Happened many years ago
Reconciled

Posts: 40 | Registered: Sep 2012
fireguy87
♂ New Member
Member # 36992
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One a side note....

You guys get into some strange sounding beers. Wish I had the taste for them. Unfortunately, I only stick with the domestic lite beers.

Still helps to relieve stress though. Matter of fact, after posting tonight, I could go for one.


Me - FBH
Happened many years ago
Reconciled

Posts: 40 | Registered: Sep 2012
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The clown post was mine. It wasn't really about the clown makeup or the clown wig, though. It was more about thought control (I know some of you have Pink Floyd in your head now).

At one point in time I was really, really struggling with mind movies. Struggling to the point where I was having anxiety and getting the shakes. I spoke to my therapist about it, and explained these weren't actually memories, but "movies" that played in my head of things that I knew that they actually did.

After speaking to her, I realized that I couldn't change the things they actually did, but one thing I could change was the horrific mind movies that were plaguing me. The thing that struck me that she said was basically, "They are a movie, and they are in your mind, so maybe twist the plot however you want. It is YOUR mind, isn't it?"

So the next mind movie I got, was (of course) of OM and my wife in bed. Then I decided to change the mind movie. Suddenly the OM had clown hair, which wasn't too far off of his hair IRL. Then he had clown makeup on, which wasn't too far off IRL, because I knew he wore eyeliner when he was playing in his band. Then I pictured the bed being on the stage in front of a full audience. Then I pictured embarrassment on OM's face, because it turns out he couldn't get it up. Then I pictured the audience laughing at him as he ran off of the stage with his makeup running from sweat.

It was a mind exercise that worked for me from time to time, and one of the only examples of my mental plot changes that didn't involve violence, so I figured it was an appropriate example to share. The violent rewrites of the mind movies were really good, though...

Best of luck to any of you dealing with mind movies. I know that's a really horrible battle to deal with.


Posts: 4549 | Registered: Dec 2010
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is YOUR mind, isn't it?"

Don't want to get too scientific or anything but I've been studying the science of neuroplasticity for quite some time. It states that we can basically rewrite our thought life by ignoring the negative thoughts and accentuating the positive. Think of it like replacing that tune you hate you've got stuck in your head and replacing it with one you like.

I dove into this when someone asked me the same type of question that LosferWords posited in the quote above, "Why do you allow your WW and her crummy boyfriends to occupy space in your mind?"

How's that working out for me? I have my bad days and my good days but things are on the upswing as far as mind movies go. Mostly I shut off the projector immediately but once in a while I watch and suffer for awhile. It's sort of like playing with a bad tooth. But then I've been at this a long, long time.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I work for the government. Any time I go offsite I have a team of shooters/guards, so I don't think I'm in too much danger. But I appreciate the thoughts nonetheless.

What bothers me about the "validation" excuse is that it's basically saying "I'm a victim."

"I needed validation. I know it's pathetic. But I'm sick, I'm not a bad person."

But.... for the past 20 years you didn't need validation.

In other words, it's a bullshit way to play the victim. We all feel good after we've scored. That doesn't give an excuse for what they've done. They need to recognize that they were indeed "bad." And in fact, they may be a poor excuse for a human. Just admitting that, is a decent start. but playing the victim isn't.

uhtred, I noticed your wife's post. Knowing your story, I thought that she was minimizing. And now, knowing that she said i love you's, and even said she "melted" when he called her by his last name, and the final straw, taking your two boys to live with him?.... anyway, I hope you remind her of that when she claims she needed validation. Because to be honest, I agree with you. It's bullshit.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2013
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:14 AM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DefeatedDad - it may be that the pressure to rugsweep is getting to you a little.

She is not remorseful when she gets mad at you for reminding her -

I think that has something to do with the grinding-down/hopeless quality of your posts...it's so SO DAM COMMON - we're not allowed, even punished with anger or coldness, or grumpiness - when we "dare to have a feeling"!

My ex ended up screaming in rage at me when I dared to suggest the 4 pillars of R:
Remorse
Transparency
Honesty
NC

Granted, it was an extreme case, and I'm thick-headed to boot, but looking back on it, it all fits into one big basket of bullshit:
"You are not allowed"
to process the fuckery they brought to your life.

Let me ask - would she get the deer-in-the-headlight look if you brought that to her attention?
It's funny isn't it - here I spent a vast amount of time white-knighting, validating, and managing the drama of feelings and actions that were completely invalid and made-up fantasy bullshit - and the minute I have a feeling? A completely and utterly valid feeling?

Well, hell to the NO!
I may be an out-lier here, where the sex life was plen. TY!
Eventually the soul-grinding took its toll, and no kind of sex on the planet assuaged that pain.

Re mindmovies - I treated them like my favorite food.
What happens when you eat it, say, every night?
You get
- yum
- pretty yum
- eh, ok
- ugh
- puke

Just. Done.

Then again, I got a duh-gree in neurospazticity, so YMMV.


Posts: 6012 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Montreal
♂ New Member
Member # 40627
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a complete melt-down today. Thankfully I'm working from home. Still, one day before a major deadline, and I fall apart.

Went to see the Eagles in concert last night, with tickets the wife had bought for us way before any of this shit went down. The evening was okay, and the concert was good, though sitting through "Lying Eyes" was... awkward.

But what seems to have set me off was finding out that her friend is coming to town. This is the friend she confided everything to, including all the affair details while they were going on. But more than that, this is the friend that she sent text messages to that were, shall we say "less than flattering" about me.

The friend is not to blame, she tried to talk WW out of it on numerous occasions, but I guess I triggered on remembering all the bad things my wife said about me during that time. I feel so stupid, like some sort of 3rd grader or something, sobbing because she said mean things about me! but I can't help it. This is the woman that was supposed to support me, be there for me, with whom I could trust everything. And she was just so... mean to me.

So yeah, having a melt-down today. Sigh.


DDay: July 6, 2013
"not divorcing"

Posts: 50 | Registered: Sep 2013
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Montreal,

I get the discomfort when around friends/family who if not "Friends of the Affair" were at least aware of it prior to dday. Here is what FWW did to address that big stinking elephant for us. She apologized to these people in person in front of me. She apologized for putting them in a difficult position. She apologized for saying things about me that were not true, and exaggerating things that were in order to justify her As and behavior. She told them how embarrassed she is now of her behavior then.

Just an idea, but it gets out in the open what everyone is thinking about. Her apologies made it clear that she was staying with me and was grateful for the opportunity.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Montreal. That really sucks.

Sometimes theres nothing to do about it and you just have to grind your teeth and go through it. Theres no pretty words or magic spells or any amount of beer that can make one bit of difference.

Sometimes life is just a fucking bitch and you just have to get through it.

Your WWs friend is a problem we share. WWs best friend. A woman she has known since she was about 8 years old. Knew all about her LTA and said NOTHING about it one way or the other. She heard all the crap lies WW told about me and probably believed them all.

(this is the woman WW is telling to go on match.com and find a new man THEN d her husband)

I see this woman about once a week when she comes by our house to visit WW.

I will recommend just as others have, DO NOT rugsweep, it will com back to bite you in the ass and that sucks!

The problem here is what to do when you have a WW that is rugsweeping? You cant air it out on your own when you have a WW that doesnt ever want to even talk about the problems.

The truth is that we are alone in this life and we have to deal with all the shit that comes up alone.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Montreal that sucks. I am sorry.

If it makes you feel any better what do you expect from a pig but a grunt ? Anything she could say to justify the horrible things she did in her own mind. If you keep telling yourself things sometimes you believe it.

One thing I did that helped me some. I wrote down the mean things my W has said/did to me over the years. I had my W read them to me aloud.

After she finished and she was mess, I asked her if she really felt that way ? She told me no. I said if you were trying to hurt me, you succeeded.

Needless to say my point was made. Something about seeing them written down and saying them to me, really showed her the result of those words.

I don't know if it was healthy, but it helped me transfer the burden of those words back to her.

She has tried heartily to convince me that they weren't true, but that usually ends up in Why couldn't you tell me the truth land.

This was awhile ago though, when I was letting out a lot of vitriol. I don't do that much anymore. I know it still bothers my W a lot that she said/did such things. It is her burden to carry now. One day, I hope to believe her now more than I believed her then.

Forgiveness is not abridge I feel comfortable crossing at the moment, so it is just one thing tied up in this whole mess.

Mind movies/nightmares haunted me less when I had a significant emotional release during the day. Crying, working out, watching a sad movie, etc. Those were the only things that helped me.

My IC said that mind movies and nightmares are manifestations of subconscious thoughts trying to break through the cluttered conscious mind. (Yeah he is good). Let some emotions out in healthy way, that seemed to help me.

ETA: Dealing with the emotions on your own helps you feel pride in something you conquered yourself. It also is not always good to involve your WW in your own personal healing. Do it on your own for your own (selfish) benefit. Yeah that scared the crap out of my W when I told her these things. I figured she had it coming.

Man I am punishy today.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 11:39 AM, November 5th (Tuesday)]


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
still-living
♂ Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You guys'll get into some strange sounding beers. Wish I had the taste for them. Unfortunately, I only stick with the domestic lite beers
.

Work finished early today. Having a Unearthly southern tier. I think I'm in heaven.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14

My dog farted, startled himself, wondered where the noise came from. I wish my life was as simple.


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