I went to IC for one session around three years ago because I felt stuck in a rut. It was a good move on my part because, as others have mentioned, sometimes it takes a neutral set of eyes and ears to see what's really going on.
You are going to have to deal with yourself for the rest of your life. Why not take a chance to help that relationship be at it's best.
When you are happy with yourself, everyone who you choose to involve in your life benefits.
I can sign enough praises about IC. Now there are good ICs and their are crappy ICs. The above is predicated on finding a good IC.
Maybe see your doctor and ask for a referral ? Doctors do this a a lot and often know the best ones out there. Picking one on your own can be hit or miss.
The thing is I sense you have some co-depency. (we reocgnize our own). Prior to Dday I was a level 99 grade AAA co-dependent with deep KISA issues.
While I still hold doors for women and have a hard time not trying to "fix" things for the women in my life (Long story, FOO issues, eldest of a dysfunctional household) I have learned that it is not job to save anyone anymore. Except myself.
Powerful thing saving yourself. IC has been good for and to me. MC . . . .I don't have as much experience. I have heard a lot of horror stories from other BH on SI and in real life. MC can't seem to get away from it's misandrist past.
DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.
Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.
I could spout off my thoughts, feeelings to an IC but it was important to have someone that through good questions would assist me in finding my way for my reasons...
I personally had a good experience with my IC. I was highly resistant to counseling, too. I was always the type that would be able to power through my own situations and fix myself. This whole infidelity thing threw me for a loop, though. I did some due diligence, and found a counselor that helped me through a lot of issues, infidelity and otherwise. The key thing to remember is that whatever counselor you find, they are human and their advice they give to you is their opinion, albeit an educated one. And also, if it doesn't work, you're always welcome to switch to a different counselor or take a break for awhile.
Good to see you posting here.
Hope you fellers are doing well. Almost Friday!
Growing includes realizing not only to accept OTHER people but learning to expand YOURSELF.
I remember telling my IC, "What??? That is bullshit!" Only to have her say, "Step back and look at this differently. What if...."
After about 2 days of pondering the "What if..." I realized, "Holy shit. I've been a complete idiot all these years."
For a year after DDAY, I tried to make my wife see things through my eyes. It was pointless. It took her time (and she still has a long way to go, but she has started) to recognize what she had done. But boy was I going to show her the light.
I am more at ease with her pace now. The less I push her, the more she moves herself. We use the metaphor of two boats paddling down a stream together. Near each other, headed the same way hopefully, but independent. I cant steer her boat. But I can lead her and see if she wants to follow. I learned I was doing a shitty job leading. I am working on that now.
I'd also suggest - on finding the right counselor - to at least find a peer: someone your age or even older.
The good ones do challenge you.
Mine asked; "How does that make you feel?"
Me; "blah blah blah..."
Him (interrupting); "No. That's what you think - I asked you how you feel."
After more blah blah on my part, he pulled out the thing I was feeling, and immediately pointed it out...to which I responded in stunned amazement. It was a great revealing session.
She keeps telling me that she wants us to work through our problems and heal from what she has done. That in itself is a selfish thing for her as she had previously had no regard for me.
Did any of you guys divorce your wife to "punish" her stupid ass for all that she did to you? That's where I'm at. I want her to suffer the consequences of her actions and strip her of the title of a married woman. She values this a lot, obviously because of the enchanted fairy tale she was living with the other guy. She talked about marrying him on a beach some where. I very well may make her dream come true.
I'm a hell of a nice guy in my honest opinion but this has brought out the worst in me as I'm sure is the case with all of us here. I guess at heart we are all fucking savages deep down inside.
I'm going home to suck some suds down and ponder my options. Everyone here deserves a fucking medal. Cheers to all of you!
Did any of you guys divorce your wife to "punish" her stupid ass for all that she did to you? That's where I'm at.
I am not divorced yet, but punishing her really is not a goal. To be honest, by the time the divorce is final you may feel like I do -- just sad. I am not sad about "losing" her, or about proceeding alone, but I am incredibly sad for my children. Oddly, I even feel sad for her at times.
I have been extremely angry, but I don't have a desire for revenge against her. I am just pissed off that we all have to pay because she was such a dumbass.
I also have an anger toward her family that I find very difficult to control. They have no idea about her adultery, but I place some blame at their feet for being so fucked up.
"have you ever been treated for depression"
Treated? As opposed to "diagnosed"?
I couldn't help but think of the movie "Stripes" when Bill Murray is asked if he's ever been 'convicted'...
D-Day #1: 12 Aug. 2008. WW's 2nd affair w/college teacher.
D-Day #2: 18 June 2009. Affair #1 with neighbor was fall of 2002 - while I was coping with the fallout from 9/11.
Still trying to R.
22 years married
i can identify with you more than you imagine. When I found out I wanted to hit POSER in the face with a bat and then grind WW's face into his crotch. "You want his dick? Have it!" Perhaps the only reason I didn't react as forcefully as you is because I'm older, and definitely not as big. (and I don't teach jujitsu, though i wish I did) I certainly told my WW to leave, that I didn't want her anymore. She of course crumbled and begged to stay.
I have read your wife's posts. She doesn't seem to want to dwell on the fact that she sent emails to him talking about love, marriage, raising your two boys, etc. A couple of people in Wayward have caught her on that, and she tries to give minimal responses to change the subject. It seems like she wants to say, "i needed validation and he gave me so many compliments, I just slipped up." This of course is bullshit. She's trying to minimize her commitment to the betrayal and deceit to a "whoopsie."
the thing is, what do YOU want? Are you ready for her to be seeing some other guy? Are you ready for your boys to have to see a stepdad?
I am not one of those that believes you should stay for the kids. I don't think kids living with two miserable parents are any better off than kids who have two happy, divorced parents. Kids aren't stupid. They see things, even if they interpret them in a childlike way.
If you honestly don't want to be with her anymore, and I can certainly see how you wouldn't, then you need to move on. For YOU, not because you want to punish her "stupid ass."
Ultimately that is what i decided. i decided I would do what "I" want. Who cares what my WW wants or needs? Not I. She blew that right out of the water. I'll do what "I" want. And right now, I haven't decided. But I will. And she's worried.
Just my thoughts. I hope you do something that makes you and your boys happy. Your WW? I'm not too worried about her.
I too was fortunate to have an understanding supervisor and a staff who truly cared and covered for me in the months after dday. When FWW stumbled she was let go, she did not have the deep, long-term relationship with her employer either.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:16 AM, November 8th (Friday)]
jjct thanks for the code i wrote it down.I use the VA they have offered me counciling but I wasnt sure now Im leaning more that way .If it sucks Ill go elsewhere if I feel the need.
Uhtred I divorced my WW.The decision was easier for me .I held out for awhile but she refused to end her affair.Some things I read said wait it out but everyone around me said D to protect yourself and your children.Even WW said "you wont D me you dont believe in it".To which I replied "I dont but Im going to do ti what do you want".I do feel it was the right decision as she was in the fog and I used that to my advantage.Three days after the D she called me up and said she didnt want the D and she was so stupid for giving me the house and kids.But there was still no remorse and the thing that brought her to that point was me going no contact.I did tell her what she would have to do at that point to come back.After I listed the steps it was like a switch flipped and she said" but you lied to me you said you would be my friend".Which I did it was part of her fantacy I went along with.And me not being her friend is what turned her whole family on me.Which I was expecting anyway.When she was still living with me she went on and on about her OM and his X wives are friends and buy each other groceries and how we could sit across the table from each other at her mothers during holidays.Sick shit I just smiled and agreed.And I would do it again to protect my kids and me.She moved out 5 days before the court date she didnt go to court and when I got back to work she sent me a text saying "whats changed since I moved out you hardly respond to my texts you have changed I deserve to know"I replied you fired me as your husband we are done D.Not quite like her fantacy I presume.
Her POSOM was my DS11's Ju Jitsu instructor for 2 years.I have anger for both of them I have some Ju jitsu training also and am bigger than him .But I know the good Lord will punish both of them better than anything I can do.And if I took it to far my kids would lose me so I will be patient.
Anyway its friday Im getting off early.I will raise a toast to all us Menz a little later Cheers!
I asked her if she felt any remorse she said "I cry in the shower"
I will tell you that one of the hardest things I ever had to learn was to listen to an IC tell you something that you fundamentally objected to.... and then realize that you've been wrong your entire life.
I'd say "You can say that again" but I did it for you, so you did. Say it again. Sort of.
I think this is probably the single most important step in moving forward.
I learned that to minimize damage to myself, I had to play friendly and clueless. Sure I'll be your friend...we might even be able to re-marry!
At the point I finally "got it" (that she would never have remorse) and detached, I didn't care what she thought or did, as long as I was safe and away from her.
A huge part of it was realizing that any revealing, or sharing of my heart and thoughts with her would cause damage to me.
Plus, it was an easy part - playing clueless. It seems to come quite naturally to me.
A huge part of it was realizing that any revealing, or sharing of my heart and thoughts with her would cause damage to me.
I have learned that anything I give her just comes back to harm me so I give nothing. That's what I was getting from her anyway...
Grade A Prime abuser tactics right there. Your intimate feelings, thoughts, and opinions will be used against you at the most destructive times possible so they can tear you down. Took me a long time to figure that one out. And ironically the lack of intimacy due to STBX's abusive ways was one of the reason's she gave for her A. According to her I didn't share my feelings or communicate enough with her. When I tried to explain where I was coming from she didn't get it. I find it interesting how one of her "reasons" for her A was her own doing, yet she can't see her contribution to that dynamic.
I find it interesting how one of her "reasons" for her A was her own doing, yet she can't see her contribution to that dynamic.
I honestly believe that this is the difference between a *remorseful* WW and a *non-remorseful* WW. The *I got it* moment took my breath away. I could actually see a transformation taking place within her. Took 8 months of regret before she hit remorse, but she got there. It was at that moment, I made my decision to try R.
It's hard for someone to be able to have that self-actualization moment. You've got to be pretty brutal with yourself to get there.