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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 15
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Tred, Losfer, et al.

Something you may want to dicuss with your IC that helped me was reframing (I think it is called that or something similar)

Basically the values we adhere to can be looked at from many vantage points. They stay at their core consistent, but the how you define them changes.

For example, I also would normally cut people out of my life who did me wrong. It was very black and white thinking. After much IC where I was challenged to consider it was something I did not always follow. I had made choices, in the past, when to invoke or not. I still have/had the same opportunity. I was keeping a absolute value that I didn't always follow. It was fear. I confronted it enough that fear was still present, but did not rule my emotions all the time. It is kind of complex, but that was the general idea.

I think changing my view that her A was something that my W did to me versus it was something she did to herself was just as helpful. I left the victim mentality behind and began to see her as her own victim. My life is better than it was and today I have a M that adds to my life. My M allows me the freedom I did not know I wanted. If it ends someday, it ends. I don't fear it therefore I don't allow it to control me. (most days, anyway) My W really admires me and knows what a rare find I am. I used to look to my W to reflect back how I valued myself. Little did I know looking at it myself is much, much better.

Anyway before I get painted as a softie or start talking about rainbows and unicorn farts, I will mention very soon I am going to climb up into tree, wait for something cute to run by, shoot it, cut it's head off, give aforementioned head to a taxidermist and and once returned, hang it on my wall. Probably even give it a nickname and talk to it some (after too many macrobrew beers).

Just wanted to get that out there in the interest of full disclosure


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2455 | Registered: May 2010
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, my marriage is soooo much better now that another man pounded my wife multiple times a week for 10 months. Why didn't we think of this earlier in the marriage, when we both seemed under the delusion that we had some kind of exclusive, till-death-do-us-part kind of thing going?

I'm sure my wife feels better about herself, now that she's confirmed that post-40, there are men out there who will still use her as a warm blow-up doll for as long as she'll let them. And biggest shocker of all - her husband finds that reality to be quite disturbing! So I must really love her after all. Who knew?


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
M for almost 18 years
4 kids

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RB

Well, with something like two-thirds of all M's experiencing an A by one or both partners, if that was true, they'd all be just about fucking perfect by now, huh? I think that's why we now have gay marriage, the straights have screwed it up so bad we might as well give somebody else a shot.

In my experience, beer fixes broken collarbones. Pot fixes anxiety attacks, just not a good idea before work. Gutting through today after this morning's event.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reframing

Yeah, we tried that too. I'm a slow learner. One thing since my wife's A I sorta lost the ability to visualize. I'll try to explain without killing a deer : when the doc was trying to find my happy place, I couldn't think of one. I can't picture it. Now, I know I've been happy before, but I'm not certain I've ever been SAFE. True story, don't need to tell my crappy life over and over, but it sucked. Until I married my wife. 14 years into it, I started to feel SAFE. And happy. I had gotten to the point in my life where I had always wanted to be. Finally. Happy and safe. I had a conversation with my wife about it. Explained how I felt. Unfortunately, the was while she was getting pounded and sucking the dick off a guy from Ashley Madison (there were 6 other men but she swears she never met them). Reframing didn't work.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3278 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MoreWould, sorry you are hurting. To be honest, knowing that the pain can be so sharp 37 years later is a little scary for a guy who's only 9 months into this nightmare. If you don't mind me asking, did something specific happen recently to set you so far back?


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
M for almost 18 years
4 kids

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

Scary to me too, I thought I was through this a long time ago.

Short story, coworkers' A triggered brutal flashbacks. Looks like PTSD, getting help from W (who finally "got it", 37 years late), seeking professional help.

Long story, see my post for more details here:

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=512893&AP=61

Punch Line: Do not rugsweep! This was a long time ago, before the post-Vietnam research on PTSD and Dr Glass and all the best practices we've come to know and love on SI. We didn't know any better, did the best we could the circumstances, but I took a lot of damage below the water line that didn't "surface" until recently.

Second ride on the roller coaster is one stone bitch. Did I tell you not to rugsweep? Don't do it.

Face the demon together until is it dead and buried. FWW doesn't want to play? Push her harder, you have nothing to lose but your future sanity.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred
That cognitive dissonance shit is hard to overcome. I can totally relate, beat myself up all the time over it right now. Had one particular serious relationship end in college when she cheated. Sent her packing never looked back. She came back on 3 separate occasions begging to give her another shot (one time three years down the road), never even considered it just told her not a chance. Now what am I doing? I'm subjecting myself to a world of hurt. Cutting ties was a much easier route, of course no children involved before either. Strength brother!

Cheating on your spouse can save your marriage

You just know there is some wife or husband out their having a hard time reading that shit and thinking maybe it is okay I'm going to do it. Disseminating shit like that to make a dollar needs to dealt with swiftly and with extreme prejudice. All that does is encourage unhealthy manipulation, not the type of relationship I want even if it did "save" your self gratifying marriage by validating that empty hole you call your heart.
Slow the flow of us that have to search for a place like SI.

numb&dumb....send me some jerky!!!!


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 417 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

That's my hard story, don't want to leave you there. Here's the other side of the coin.

We did R, however imperfectly and are still married after all this. We are still very much in love, have had a great life together. 40th anniversary coming up soon. Two great kids, born after our A's. Lots of success, material, emotional and spiritual in our lives. Great extended family (with the usual ratio of total whack-jobs) on both sides.

It can be done, but take my advice and do it right. I can't guarantee that will save you from what I'm going through, but I can golly-damn sure promise what can happen if you don't do the work.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know what Tred needs this weekend....should be pulling up into your driveway at any minute. This weekends brew is for you.


Me:35 WW:34 M:13yrs
3 young children
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 417 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks MoreWould, and my apologies for making it about me. Everyone's different. Bottom line, you're still hurting after all this time and I hate to see it. But the experience has given you wisdom and insight that you've chosen to share with us on this thread, and for that I'm grateful.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
M for almost 18 years
4 kids

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTS

I get blamed for NOT sharing my intimate feelings with my W, even though most of the time when I do she either a) doesn't respond at all, b) becomes very defensive or c) turns the situation around to somehow be about her.

FWW finally "got it", has been a ton more help to me than ever before (decades late, but better than never, eh?). But even so, the other day I was sharing things I was sad about. I said that our life together could have been so much more intimate, deeper, and satisfying.

She was like, "What?" Understand, Emotional Unavailability (EU) is one of her FOO issues that contributed to her A in the first place. I know that, reconcilled to it a long time ago. But still, "What?"

Tried to explain, couldn't be done. Like speaking Swahili to a Martian.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

You have no idea how much good SI, and BMenz, and you have done for me. Just trying to pay for my ride here.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
M for almost 18 years
4 kids

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MoreWould:

I posted on that thread in General a couple of times, it was getting increasingly triggery for me so I am trying to stay away from it. Allot of denial (of the obvious) going on there.

My WWs LTA started in that same work wife&husband way.

It became an EA and went for years that way. During that time WW was horrible to me. Verbally abusive and angry all the time. She told me after Dday that OM was giving her *advice* on how to improve our M.

Eventually that advice extended to them screwing in our van at their work. And that extended to him hiding in our neighborhood until I left for work. He would then sneak into our house and they would screw in our bed. The PA went on for another 3+ years.

Those work relationships are definitely slippery slopes especially if one or both dont have good boundaries.

I can definitely see how seeing that going on after being a BH can be traumatic. It would be so for me.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3058 | Registered: Sep 2007
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Defiled,

No way that gets up my driveway. . He'll just have to unhook the trailer at the bottom of the driveway. He can pick it back up Monday.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3278 | Registered: Dec 2011
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Numb - I agree with you about reframing. My therapist was so good at that. I'd come to her with my problem du jour, and she would have it reframed in a different perspective practically by the time I got the words out of my mouth. She was simply brilliant at it.

The main reason I sought out therapy was because I was dealing with issues with the biological disconnect between me and my boy. It took her awhile, but she was finally able to reframe that for me as well. She explained to me that her belief is that children choose their parents, and while mine had a bumpy path to get here, he ultimately chose me as his dad. That concept made my jaw hit the floor.

The following week I was stunned. Then a rush of feelings hit me, and I wrote a four page letter to my son, which he may or may not see some day. I brought that letter in to my IC session, and she thumbed through it briefly, and threw it down on the table, and said, "This doesn't do me a damn bit of good." I was shocked, and asked her why. And she said, "It won't do you any good either. Not unless you read it out loud. Now."

3/4 of a box of kleenex, and half an hour later, I was even more firmly set in the reframing that she helped me put in place.

Reframing is hard, but man can it be healing.

That's a beautiful brew, Sal! I will be getting there myself shortly!!


"The hero of my tale, whom I love with all the power of my soul, whom I have tried to portray in all his beauty, who has been, is, and will be beautiful, is Truth." - Leo Tolstoy

Posts: 4462 | Registered: Dec 2010
MoreWould
♂ Member
Member # 37982
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

That's beautiful, but tonight, I'm going straight to Tequila. One hour to go. Got an expensive date planned with W at Costco. Shots first.

God I hate this daylight savings time. Gets dark an hour early and I get up in the dark either way.


Me BH/WH, 63
Her WW/BW, 62
Her DDay Dec 1976 OMW at the door
My DDay, ~ 2years later, confessed ONS the next day
R via "Sweeping under the rug"
Still married, 40 yrs, mostly OK
2 kids, 24 & 20

Posts: 347 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Colorado
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's beautiful, but tonight, I'm going straight to Tequila. One hour to go.

Sounds good to me More. I'm probably going to chase down a shot or two of JD before the night's up.

Got an expensive date planned with W at Costco. Shots first.

Don't blame you. Have fun.

That's a beautiful brew, Sal! I will be getting there myself shortly!!

Post something frothy for us, Losfer.

A great weekend to all my BM brothers!

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 4:29 PM, November 8th (Friday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
M for almost 18 years
4 kids

Reconciled


Posts: 1024 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
1985
♂ Member
Member # 28171
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Time for me to add my "oh so true" to MoreWould's words of wisdom. Don't rugsweep. Don't let your W get away with refusing to discuss the A and answer your questions. My history is identical to his on those points. And, like him, I was able to move on with life; have and raise kids; stay married; have a successful career as a lawyer; stay married; and still love my W. and I kinda healed. In a way. By myself.
But it was not complete healing and everything still was there buried in my head. Like, maybe an abscess. And then a year ago I had my circumstances that, like MoreWould, made me say enough silence. We have to talk. And the healing has really truly happened since then. My W still clearly prefers to not discuss it or answer questions, but she will if I request and that is all the difference in the world. So my long winded way of seconding MoreWould's comments from my perspective 28 years after DDay.
And I should also add that yes, I love her and appreciate the efforts she is now making. We have a good life. And I am fortunate to be able to say that I DO know what my happy place looks like. We are leaving this weekend to go there for a week. We renew and strengthen our relationship each time we are there. I am ready to get on the plane and go. I recommend to each of you that you search for that special place that is just yours and hers. Not tainted by OM or the A. Where you can make memories that are just yours and that are so fabulous that they can be called upon to head off and block mind movies and negative thoughts when they try to surface.
So gentlemen, so long for a week. No offense, but I won't be thinking of you because Nirvana cannot be intruded upon.
Stay strong.


Me-BH 63
Her-fWW 63
DDay: June 1985. 5 years after A ended
DDay June, 1985
DDay June 1985
Still married - actually in love
2 grown kids; 4 grandkids

Posts: 588 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest - large city
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't let your W get away with refusing to discuss the A and answer your questions.

That can bite you in the arse though.

Early on after Dday I started asking questions. WW would answer freely (with some anger though) but she would put her answer in the most hurtful way possible.

I still have scars from that.

This was obviously a ploy on her part to make me stop asking. Sadly it worked.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3058 | Registered: Sep 2007
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