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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 15
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I prefer the term matricide.

Is that like systematically killing off all of the mattresses in the world?

[This message edited by ontheslope at 8:34 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
doubleboggy
♂ Member
Member # 40622
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now, if you can figure out something positive that, from his perspective, would make him want to stay - DO IT. That "thing" might be to make it a little safer for him to risk R (like, oh, say, HONESTY), then implement it.

AAAAAAAAmen.


I have became what I have beheld and am content that I have done right. - Elliot Ness

Posts: 84 | Registered: Sep 2013
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

More like killing the vows and promises in matrimony.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought matricide meant killing your own mother?


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1616 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP - your spot on. I was just using a play on words...meanings can change over time . Look at the evolution of some common words.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
doubleboggy
♂ Member
Member # 40622
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was just using a play on words...meanings can change over time

We need a WW dictionary:


*We are just friend* = We are fucking.

*I need some time alone* = I want you to leave me alone so I can fuck him in peace.

*I can't remember* = I'm not about to tell you.


I have became what I have beheld and am content that I have done right. - Elliot Ness

Posts: 84 | Registered: Sep 2013
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


So... for some reason I have just started triggering again. My D-day was 19 months ago and I was doing pretty good.

My FWW and I went to a concert the other night and I got some cash out of the ATM for incidentals. The next day I realized that I had only spent a little bit. I opened my wallet and handed her half of what was in there. She looked at me and said "what's this for"? I responded that it was for what ever she needed. She looked at me and said "why would I need cash"?

And... that's what did it. You see, on the way out of state to see her family (meet up with OM). She withdrew a large amount of cash.

The whole time after the event she kept saying their interaction was an "accident".

I just put together Saturday that everything that was done was pre-planned, completely and totally. She got the money so she wouldn't show any charges on her debit card when she went to another state (WITH MY 3 YEAR OLD!!!) and I couldn't track it that way.

I guess I knew this but something wasn't linked up mentally or something. I told my wife this morning I was triggered this weekend. She said "I could have told you that". She went on to say that I am completely checked out when I am around her and have been for a long time.

I realize that she is right. I thought we were OK but I realize that I am tolerating her and almost look for a reason to be mad.

We are not in counseling and haven't been since I found out she was still in contact with him 17 months ago.

I am not sure what I am waiting for. I think maybe if she would just understand the gravity of what she did I would be OK. Maybe if she truly understood the pain that she caused me which she so casually dismissed 19 months ago.

Maybe it's never going to be OK. I think at some point she will get tired of my coldness and move on. I am pretty sure I will be perfectly OK with that.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

d71, don't take this the wrong way, but I read:

Maybe it's never going to be OK. I think at some point she will get tired of my coldness and move on. I am pretty sure I will be perfectly OK with that.

as:

I don't have the stones to leave her, even though deep down I know that's what needs to happen.

I'm not saying that to be mean. Just trying to put this in perspective. Would you really be OK if she left? If yes... if truly yes.... then why are you staying? It almost sounds like you know it is over, for real over, but you just can't bring yourself to be the one that leaves, you can't be the one to pull the trigger and serve her with papers.

I'm really curious on your response, because I sometimes feel the same way.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I made a mistake" =

everything that was done was pre-planned, completely and totally

I think maybe if she would just understand the gravity of what she did I would be OK. Maybe if she truly understood the pain that she caused me which she so casually dismissed 19 months ago.

That would require empathy which means that she would have to love you as much as you love her and endure the pain of you betraying her.

Maybe it's never going to be OK. I think at some point she will get tired of my coldness and move on. I am pretty sure I will be perfectly OK with that.

I've been praying for freedom from suspicion, paranoia, jealousy, and fear as it pertains to WW. I've noticed over the last few months that whatever spark was there seems to be gone. Don't know if it's temporary or permanent or a self-defense mechanism, but it's gone. Or maybe "I no longer give a damn" is the natural end result of being married to someone who refuses to put in the work to truly reconciliate.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
RyeBread
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Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been praying for freedom from suspicion, paranoia, jealousy, and fear as it pertains to WW

I noticed that when I finally relieved myself of those burdens I was able to take an honest step back and decide what I really wanted. It removed any guilt I felt for wanting to D. Not saying you should D, but my head was clear and I could commit to the path I wanted.

It puts the responsibility on your WW. And you can easily see if she is up for the commitment of R or not.

Thats how it was for me anyway.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTS

I'm not saying that to be mean. Just trying to put this in perspective. Would you really be OK if she left? If yes... if truly yes.... then why are you staying? It almost sounds like you know it is over, for real over, but you just can't bring yourself to be the one that leaves, you can't be the one to pull the trigger and serve her with papers.

I keep thinking that one day I won't think about this all day long and one day I'll feel the way I used to. She was my everything. I loved her more than anything in life. I am hoping one day it'll return. Also, to be honest, I am not interested in starting a relationship with anyone else. I just don't have that interest. I have a small son and honestly would need some logistical help if we split. So, if I'm not interested in any other woman or starting a relationship and I need someone around the house, it might as well be his mom. I don't hate her I am just not in love with her. She is a good roomate I guess.

Mr Kite

I actually had to go back and look at what I wrote to see if this was a quote.

I've been praying for freedom from suspicion, paranoia, jealousy, and fear as it pertains to WW. I've noticed over the last few months that whatever spark was there seems to be gone. Don't know if it's temporary or permanent or a self-defense mechanism, but it's gone. Or maybe "I no longer give a damn" is the natural end result of being married to someone who refuses to put in the work to truly reconciliate.

That is EXACTLY how I feel.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep thinking that one day I won't think about this all day long and one day I'll feel the way I used to. She was my everything. I loved her more than anything in life.

D71, man do I get that. Not sure if you are in IC? What are you doing just for you?


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3305 | Registered: Dec 2011
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

D71 - I apologize for not knowing more of your back story.... haven't been around the Menz Club all that long.

In follow up to Tred, I'm wondering what SHE'S doing for YOU? Is it enough? I mean.... REALLY enough?

We're on similar time lines. I am finding that my wife will, legitimately, do ANYTHING that I ask as it pertains to reconciling. She continues to do IC, she asks me what she can do, she is open for me emotionally and sexually, she answers questions without hesitation.

Of course there is ALWAYS more - because an affair creates an environment where the betrayed can never get back to where he was. But I see, very clearly, that she is in it 100%.

Is your wife in it 100%? And, to follow up, if she isn't.... have you told her EXACTLY what you need?

My wife and I did an assignment where we both wrote down lists of what we needed and wanted in our marriage. It was all spelled out, in black and white. And while there are things I still would LIKE to happen (the trapeze bar over the bed was difficult to install ) I am very happy with where we're at.

If you're 19 months out and you can honestly say she's just not getting the job done to your satisfaction, well.... you know.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2013
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tred...About the only thing that I do for me is exercise. Several times a week I go lift or run or something.

I do have a classic car in the garage that I had saved up to restore. Then...we had in fertility problems. 65K and one adoption later our dream of becoming parents became a reality. Now I have the money to restore it but don't have the time.

I used to do triathlons and my wife thought it was too great a burden on her to attend with my son who was small so I stopped.

I have a weird job where I am out of town three nights a week. When I am home I spend all of my time with my family and ALWAYS have. No hobbies to speak of at all. I am a family man and that's all I ever wanted to be.

You know, that's the bad part. I have provided literally everything I can imagine an woman could want. I have taken her all over the world. I have provided incredible stability. I have taken care of myself. I have tried to be everything to her and I have loved her more than anything.

I told her last weekend that I know why she did it. I told her the external validation that she required was more important than her marriage vows. She didn't disagree. I think at some point that need is going to win again because I am still not providing that validation.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
damaged71
♂ Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LIC...

My wife has been great in many aspects. She is trying harder in some ways. I got breakfast in bed the other day for instance.

She has not exhibited any Wayward behavior in at least a year or more. Nothing.

I think that there is going to be some magical action that will make it better for me.

So far I am not clear on what happened between her and the OM. She has not come out and told me the truth. I got one story from her and one from the OM wife. The OM's wife apparently got everything out of the OM. So, I still don't know what's true. Well...that's not exactly true. I know what happened, she just hasn't admitted it. She doesn't like to talk about it because she doesn't want to "relive" it.

She might give me what I asked but to be honest, I don't know what to ask for.

So we go on with monthly cycles that look like this.

Week 1 - things seem to be fine and we feel married

Week 2 - Something starts "working on me" about what happened.

Week 3 - I tolerate her

Week 4 - Complete fall out all over again.

Rinse and repeat.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allot is said about improving the M. But I think thats allot like moving a 20 foot rail. You can lift up your end but you wont get much if any movement unless someone is there to lift the other end.

The M is actually the relationship between the husband and wife. That relationship consists of the trust and sharing that happens AND of the vows made (the contract).

If I have a friend that together we create a business together. If there is no contract between us we are just sort of working around each other but now toward any sort of common goal. Each of us would do pretty much as we want to. There would be no obligation or expectations between us. In this case it could not be said that we are *in business together*. We are just 2 friends with a common hobby.

If a contract is made then we are in business together. Obligations and expectations are clearly stated and agreed to. Profits are divided and all the rest of it. It is also clearly understood that if the contract is broken the business relationship ends.

Isnt it the same for M?

Our WW broke the M contract. In business terms that breach of contract ends the M relationship. Of course the contract can be re written with new obligations and expectations and the business will be restarted but that hardly ever happens because once it is shown that one partner will not live up to the contract. Any future contract does not carry much weight.

Not sure where I was going with that. I started this with something else in mind but my thoughts wandered away.

I think for us with WWs not holding up their end of the rail then improving the M is simply not possible. I also think that its important to recognize when things are impossible because effort toward attaining impossible things is wasted effort.

Everyone says that we can not control our WS. This is absolutely true. And we can not improve the M by our self. What we can do is improve our life even if we stay in a M with a broken contract.

Back to the business analogy for a moment. If the business dies because 1 person violated the business contract. That does not mean that the hobby has to die. The 2 friends can still be together and share their hobby. A hobby relationship with my WW is what I have.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She might give me what I asked but to be honest, I don't know what to ask for.

I once said to my WW. If you want me to trust you then tell me something about your LTA that I dont already know.

Her answer was. How do I know what you dont know?

And of course no more information was forth coming.

I think that there is going to be some magical action that will make it better for me.

I really think thats unlikely. Your WW has no power to make it all better for you. She can help by answering your questions and being open and transparent and being honest. But she cant make it all better for you. Only you can do that.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep thinking that one day I won't think about this all day long and one day I'll feel the way I used to. She was my everything. I loved her more than anything in life.

I'd say that's all of us, isn't it? We all married the woman we did because they were everything to us. I doubt that many of us made that decision lightly.

That's what makes the betrayal so hard... so sharp.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
damaged71
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Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry to post non-stop but there is something else I thought about that might be at play.

My wife is terrified that I am going to leave her for what she has done. She really is. She has nightmares about it and will wake up crying.

I think that might play some part in her not wanting to discuss what happened. I think in her mind the safest thing to do is to not bring it up, because, well, bad things happen when it gets brought up.

So essentially it's the monster that won't seem to die and I don't know how to kill it. She would rather act like it's not there as a strategy. I can't kill it without her help and right now it's like this thing is a Juggernaut and won't go down for the count.

I know why couples get divorced without trying to reconcile. It's because it's easy.


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 305 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

d71

Sorry for not knowing your story but have you tried MC?

Personally I am not a big fan of MC but I think that maybe if a mediator is present maybe your WW will feel safer giving you more of the story.

Just a thought.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
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