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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 15
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting jjcc.

I think I understood about 10% of that.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife received her first bird from me on D Day, when the kids were nearby and expressing myself verbally wasn't an option. She received a couple more in the months that followed, but thankfully the bird phase and the general "FU" phase has passed. The bird is so often abused and misused, but there are times when it's the perfect form of expression. A picture really is worth a thousand words.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
slater13
♂ Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Got a taste of the catch 22 sex thing you guys have mentioned here before.

The fWW has been reserved mostly sexually. I have asked for her to open up a bit, especially knowing what she likely did for him. So over the weekend she totally stepped out of her shell and did something that shocked me. I was totally into it and excited. But 10 minutes after it hit me. Hit me hard. THIS is how she was for him. THIS level of passion and aggressiveness. I just started to sink as I was thinking about it.

How do you all handle this? I mean I want more of that (I think), but then I just get this window into her A world.

Also, do I tell her? My fear is she will back away in the future from doing things like this so I don't trigger. This sucks.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 154 | Registered: Apr 2013
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just stopped having sex with her.

ETA: That sounded flip, sorry. I just noticed that I was having sex with my wife for the benefit of not hurting her feelings even though the act was making my skin crawl and head swim with poison. I've never been one of those guys who NEEDS sex....and I notice I've been happier without it for now. Maybe that will change at some point.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 12:26 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct - I understand all of that... booyah!

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
HoldingTogether
♂ Member
Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slater13,
How do you all handle this? I mean I want more of that (I think), but then I just get this window into her A world.

I had a pretty similar situation. I suppose that I could've just avoided sex with my wife. But since I was working toward R, that didn't seem like a real good long term solution considering that I like sex and fully intended on having some with someone at some point. And I suppose i could've tried to put the genie back into the bottle and stick with the reserved, somewhat repressed vanilla sex almost always initiated exclusively by me. But fuck that noise, that shit always left me feeling like she was having sex with me out of some sort of obligation, or as some sort of favor she had to be fucking talked into doing for me. That shit wasn't going to fly after Dday, not when I was left feeling so much like the second choice, also ran, settled for booby prize. No way I was gonna be able to handle feeling like that. At the risk of sounding like a chick... I wanted to feel wanted. I wanted to fucking feel attractive. I wanted to fucking feel desired.

But, of course, as you said there is that catch 22. Anytime FWW would actually come at me sexually. Any time she would try something new or kind of kinky. I would take a detour to trigger city. So what to do with that?

Well, sometimes the only way over it is through. IMHO, this is one of those things that can only be repaired through time and repetition. You can learn to beat that shit back and push through it if you are willing to put in the effort and work at it. And yes, I am aware that having to look at sex with your wife that way, as something you need to work at, is a big fucking plate of suck... But there it is, it takes time and work, I ain't gonna sugar coat it for ya.

I can tell you that it gets better if your willing to stick with it. My sex life is better than it has ever been, a fact about which I am pleased to no end; I go to sleep most nights with a big ass grin on my face . So I got that going for me, which is nice. Sucks that it took such a fucked up series of events for my FWW to finally be able to acknowledge and embrace her own sexuality.... But there that is too. This is it. It is what it is. Fuck it.

As for this,

Also, do I tell her? My fear is she will back away in the future from doing things like this so I don't trigger.

Why don't you try telling her exactly what you just told us? In exactly the same words. Real R only works with open honest communication. You got something on your mind? Let her know about it. If it's difficult for her to deal with? Well that's something else you guys are gonna need to work the fuck out. You tell her about this stuff and it hurts her feelings? Well too fucking bad, there's lots of hurt to go around, that particular serving just happened to land on her plate. The days of you swallowing all of your bad feelings deep down inside of you in a vainglorious effort to "protect" her from having her feelings hurt needed to end about 1 second after you found out she had been fucking around with some other guy. You feeling me?

Look, in the end the both of you have got to find a way to communicate about difficult shit like this with out getting yourselves tied up in knots worrying about the fucking consequences all of the time. That kind of communication is pretty much required for any kind of meaningful Reconciliation to happen.

Anyway, just my two cents. As always, try to keep in mind that I am as fucked up and full of shit as anyone else. Strength brother.
HT


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 339 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This advice ^^^ is better than mine. I know eventually I'll have to get back to working through it, but I don't feel like it yet.


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1618 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm working through this shit with my fWW. Over the last week or so the sex has been hot and luckily she seems to be the one initiating most of the time. I think she has finally pulled her head out of her pretty ass and realized that she could have had porn sex with me throughout our marriage and was surprised when I didn't think of her as a slut.

Well... Yes I do think she is a whore and a slut for giving another man what she should have given me. But I'm not telling her that. That's my own secret burden to work through.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've got chicken and shrimp on the barbie and I'm sitting here knocking back a glass of 12 year-old Tamnavulin single malt. Looking at my fWW's pretty bottom as she bends over to pull weeds out of the planter next to the sun deck.

She's a beautiful woman and has too much good in her to toss away. For now, in this moment, I'm content.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well said HT - all of it. A-men brother. A-men.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
Sproket
♂ Member
Member # 41262
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HT I wish I was at that stage..
That was some great knowledge dropped nevertheless


ME:BS 40
W: WW 40
M: Oct 2009
D.D Nov 2, 2013

Posts: 68 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: VA
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, sometimes the only way over it is through. IMHO, this is one of those things that can only be repaired through time and repetition

Well said, HT. Just do it, and do it often. Reclaim what is yours a hundred times over. HB has been crucial to our R, and at 9 months I think it's gotten beyond HB and is just the way we do things around here now. Fuck her affair and the demons that go with it, this is my wife and I'm going to make love to her passionately and every chance I get. They say living well is the best revenge, and good sex is a big part of living well.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

t2g - booyah! Thanks for that.

DDad - sorry if I come off as 'I can't relate' sometimes...

I just have to be patient, and wait for the books to be opened.
I think my ex had sex with me in places & in ways she had sex with others, as a weird re-claiming(?) thing - I don't know. Why did she demand sex in the closet? Why did she want it on the front porch? Why did she want it this way and that way?

All in hindsight - I have a nagging certainty she was repeating her positions and indiscretions with me...maybe as an erasing thing to her mind...maybe to torture me, I don't know yet, but I'm sure I will.

http://tinyurl.com/I-like-a-girl-who-reads


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have this nagging feeling that my WW hopes that if she does all those kinky things for me that I will eventually tire of them and go back to the vanilla sex she gave me for so many years....because that was her comfort zone.

But at the same time, she really seems to be getting off on what we are doing now. We tried anal for the first time this past weekend (well, first time for me). She seemed to know what she was doing, and that made me trigger. Not sure I want to do it again knowing the OM popped her cherry that way, so to speak.

I guess I just have to trust her.. Trust that she is just not doing these things to placate me and get me off her back. So far she seems to sincerely like it.

I'm going to bring up this concern during MC this week. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 8:35 AM, November 18th (Monday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think my ex had sex with me in places & in ways she had sex with others, as a weird re-claiming(?) thing - I don't know. Why did she demand sex in the closet? Why did she want it on the front porch? Why did she want it this way and that way?

All in hindsight - I have a nagging certainty she was repeating her positions and indiscretions with me...maybe as an erasing thing to her mind...maybe to torture me, I don't know yet, but I'm sure I will.

Interesting thought. For me it was all of a sudden...let's do it standing up in the shower. WTH? This is from someone who thinks the missionary position is too taxing.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DD the question you have to ask yourself is "Did YOU like it ?"

If you did, try again. Don't over think it.

I understand the triggers. To this day I have and cannot do anything in hotel.

Well, Road trip this week. I am going to take that back. Face my fears and prove that they don't hold me hostage anymore. I might trigger, sure. If I do I know I am with someone I feel safe enough with to work through it.

Another thing is that I asked for more "effort," on her end. Read books, make plans, buy . . "Stuff."

Essentially show me she was willing to put in 110% effort to make me "happy." The actual details don't matter as much further out. The effort can help the triggers. Heck, doing her hair, and make up before can be a huge for me. I just want her to show me that "she is into me, in that way." Try something new for both of you.

As they say, practice makes perfect.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
Montreal
♂ New Member
Member # 40627
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

Just felt like providing a little update. Sort of positive, which I think is sometimes missing on this board at times (with good reason of course).

Finally feel like we're making a little headway here. To begin with, the DNA tests on my oldest son came back, and I am indeed his biological father. Losfer, you said that it must be an incredible relief to those men who find out that they are indeed the biological father, but I got to be honest with you all I felt was sad. On the one hand I was glad to know that our entire marriage wasn't built on a lie, but on the other hand I felt incredibly sad that I had been reduced to that. Checking my son for paternity. I had gone from being 100% sure he was mine, to being 95% sure, and that was not a pleasant feeling. Losfer, I admire your courage and dedication to your son through what no doubt must have been a devastating event for you. You are a good man.

But the positive to come out of that was that my wife found out I had done the test, and while she was initially very upset about it, she calmed down and said that it was understandable, and she hoped that I would get some closure from doing the test. She said this before the results came in, so obviously she knew what they were going to be. She didn't handle it perfectly, but she handled it pretty well I thought.

Another good thing that happened was that for perhaps the first time since this whole mess started in the summer I got the impression that the "fog" was gone from her head. I asked her again about her statement right after D-Day that she wanted an "open marriage" and she completely and genuinely backtracked on it. Without using the word "fog" she basically described herself as being in that state, of wanting, or believing, that she could have both the perfect married life and the perfect affair partner on the side, with all the excitement and attention that came from that, and everybody would fart Skittles and rainbows (my words). She now sees, she said, what a fantasy world that was and what she wanted was to be with me. I did not get the impression, in any way, shape or form, that she was bullshitting. We had a good, honest talk, and like I said I feel like she understands what she has done. Remorseful not for losing out on her perfect vision of life, but remorseful for even thinking that was a realistic option. And of course for devastating me. I'm not there yet, but I'm starting to believe that her remorse might actually be genuine.

Last thing, we're pretty close to dumping our IC/MC. We both have the same one because we had thought that it would be easier if we had somebody who knew the whole story from both sides and who was also a MC. She had started to see him before D-Day, as she was starting to come to her senses back then, and felt she needed help. I started to see him after D-Day. We have never seen him together, as he has always said that we "are not ready". The problem with this IC is that I really feel his solution is to rug-sweep. He's been advocating a separation for both of us, a separation of three months even though neither one of us wants that or thinks it’s a good idea. He actually suggested it to me about 10 minutes into my first meeting with him. He's also told me that I shouldn't tell her how I am feeling because she needs to figure out things on her own, and while at the time I figured this was just a version of the 180 I don't think that it was appropriate for our situation. He told her that we shouldn't talk about it, that I am wallowing in it, and that she has apologized enough to me and that it was basically time to move forward. He felt that I had "punished her enough." Which I think is ludicrous, considering that I have basically done nothing to her, aside from want to talk about what happened. I've haven't kicked her out, told her friends or family, beaten her up, or even called her any names. I'm not saying she got off easy or anything, seeing me fall apart, but it's not like I've been an abusive monster lusting after every chance I could get to rake her over the coals for her actions. So I thought his "punished her enough" comment was stupid, on a lot of levels. As I said to my wife, you spill some milk, you clean it up. You don't just clean up a little bit and say "well that's enough, my conscience is clear". You clean it all up. It's over when it's over, and not before. If I still need apologies, if I'm still triggering and want her to tell me she understands and that she'll be there for me, then that is what I need. I don't do it every time I trigger, and I don't do it every day. But I still want and need it. The IC seems to think I should be past that now, and it's not up to her to help me if I am not. I asked him flat-out if he was suggesting that we rug-sweep and while he denied that he did say that "you guys need a break from this whole thing". I could MAYBE understand that if we were talking two years from now, but this is only four months in and we've taken "breaks" from it already. Last night my wife said she didn't think she was going to see him anymore, because his advice went against everything I told her I needed, everything she had read, and perhaps most importantly, everything SHE felt that she should be doing. So I think this is a positive.

Afterwards we "banged the gong slowly" (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) and while it wasn't the wild and crazy HB we did a few weeks ago she did email me this morning to tell me that she felt we really "connected" even though she knew we were a long ways off from being fixed.

That's it. Not cured, not sure if we are going to make it, still angry/sad/resentful, but at least there were some positive developments. I'll take that.


DDay: July 6, 2013
"not divorcing"

Posts: 50 | Registered: Sep 2013
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and get me off her back...

, providing anal to get you off her back.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
DWBH
♂ Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

providing anal to get you off her back.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one whose mind went there...


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, November 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good update Montreal.

Sometimes progress happens so slowly it is hard to notice. You look at where you are and look at where you started. If you are better that when you started that is progress.

R is marathon not a race.

If IC/MC isn't working for you, stop. It is wasting resources. It is a huge positive sign that your W sees this too. She seems at least self aware and as the good doctors to the left says " You can't change what you don't acknowledge."

4 months is a drop in the pond when it comes to this stuff.

FWIW you sound better than I did at 4 months out


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2457 | Registered: May 2010
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