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User Topic: Is this just fairy tale thinking?
TattoodChinaDoll
♀ Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something that I expressed to WH that makes me feel sad is the fact that I have never seen him break down in the, "what have I done!?!?" kind of way. Or when we were on the outs he never begged me to stay.

Before he did this 180 (I mean changed himself not "the 180"), it was a lot of words and no action. Then it was neither. There was once very early on that I had him read Things That Every WS Needs To Know. That one time it did seem like the enormity of what he did came crashing down on him. And I held him as he cried. Unfortunately it didn't change anything because this was way at the beginning of all this and I still went through 9 months of TT and lots of emotional abuse. There was lots of crying. But it was crying for himself, not what I was going through.

He has told me he does cry and break down like I describe. But only when he is alone in his truck. Obviously I don't want him to just come home and make himself sob and breakdown. I feel like it's just fairy tale thinking on my part. But part of me does wonder why he has never done this. He is an emotional person and he's not afraid to cry. So it's not a personality thing. Maybe it's just the doubt that an A puts in a BS and the fear caused by what he has put me through...that a little part of me fears this isn't all real. Not that him crying would prove it was real. That's why I feel like I'm just trying to be a character in a fairy tale. Have you ever had these thoughts? What are your opinions on them? I'm not asking these questions because I don't think he is being genuine now or because I think he is being shady. Just wondering if I'm being silly.

ETA: And now I have Bohemian Rhapsody stuck in my head. Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 11:00 AM, October 14th (Monday)]


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((TCD)))

Actions speak louder than words. What is he doing now that shows he is commited to R. He probably has had his crying snot running down his face what have I done moment, or moments, you just didn't get to see it.

His changes in behavior that we have all witnessed are proof that he gets it now.
I wouldn't put much stress, or concern in the fact that you didn't get to bear witness to it.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8717 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
TattoodChinaDoll
♀ Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I definitely don't think that because I haven't witnessed it that he is lying now. It feels like a fight or flight response to the idea of it though. "Wait...what does it mean?! Why hasn't he done this?! Oh crap!!!" It's a very minimal feeling though which is why I was wondering what others experiences with this was. I'm definitely not sitting here getting mad that he hasn't broken down like that in front of me. And I'm definitely not really feeling like its because he is still cheating. It's that fear thing that takes time. I guess overall it just makes me feel sad. You are right Tushnurse, he does get it. And his actions are showing it...though now it's just stupid slips not purposeful ones. Still makes me want to kick him in the shins though.

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 11:30 AM, October 14th (Monday)]


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
TattoodChinaDoll
♀ Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ya know....a couple of things just, poof, came together in my mind. I think it makes me sad because one feeling that hits me often is not feeling special and not being enough. Sistermilkshake said something in another post about "being chosen." That no, it doesn't make me feel good to be chosen over the OW because I shouldn't have been the choice in the first place. Our life together and children weren't special enough during the A, I wasn't special during the emotional abuse. And yes, I know I'm special as a person...I mean just to him. Maybe I'm waiting for that one big thing from him that shows me how special I am to him. Because being chosen is still pretty shitty if you think about it. But I don't want to take away from how he has changed and how he has treated me now. Because it is wonderful. I think that's why I described it as a fairy tale idea.

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 11:42 AM, October 14th (Monday)]


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My gut feel from TTMU's posts isn't that he hasn't yet allowed himself to be vulnerable enough to break down in your presence, probably because he is aware of what he's done. So it's not exactly a win for R, but it's not a loss, either.

I also think his posts are moving in a good direction, and if his behavior is going in the right direction, too, maybe your best bet is to class this with the 'nice to have, but not essential' stuff.

Think about learning music - most people learn an element at a time.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10383 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
TattoodChinaDoll
♀ Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, sisoon. That's the idea I was trying to say in my babble...it would be nice to have but not essential. And it doesn't make me question if he is genuine for real.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
SpiderGrl
♀ Member
Member # 40157
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have had similar thoughts but mine are just because I want SOME tears. There have been no tears. I can tell it hurts him to see me hurt but would a couple salties be so hard to squeeze out for me?

I think I would be really intimidated I my wh full on broke down. He isn't an overly emotional guy anyway.


Me 36- BW
Him 37- WH 6 month EA pushing PA.
DDAY- 7/2/13
Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will. -Gandhi
Pls forgive weird sentences and spelling mistakes, I post from my phone and autocorrect hates me.

Posts: 101 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: US
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been following along your posts all along and I've seen a big shift in his way of thinking. Like sisoon says, this is great.

My husband, on DDay#1 SOBBED. Tears streaming, snot running down his face, sobbing. I fell for it. I comforted HIM! Except, he was lying about horrifically, including about more affairs, including a LTA. He used crying as a way to manipulate me. The sobbing kind I mean.

After DDay#2 he never begged me to let him stay. I felt like you do, but worse I think. I wanted him to plead. I mean shit!

In any case, he did cry sometimes. But not those gut wrenching sobs. More like tears of shame where he couldn't look at me. Over time, that has meant so much more to me. He does have those moments of "What have I done!!??" it just isn't the demonstrative way I thought I wanted it to be initially.

Many times now, over the past 15 months he's thanked me for staying with him and giving him a chance. Maybe he didn't beg, but he's showing me NOW he appreciates not kicking his ass to the curb.

Sometimes I think the shame is so much, they have to do it alone. They are scared of triggering us too, and don't want us to feel like we have to comfort them when they are supposed to be comforting us, youknow?

You're not being silly, not at all. But, I do think he's being real NOW compared to before.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
TattoodChinaDoll
♀ Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's something I think too...that he doesn't want me to think he is being manipulative and just crying to get my attention. I get that after all that has happened it is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations for the WS. We were just talking before about finances and what we are doing to make our life awesome and to be able to leave that job and away from OW. Though I'm hoping a meteor falls on her house while she is in it instead. I didn't want to seem like I wasn't greatful for all the hard word that it will take to get us to that point, but its a 2 - 3 year plan. It's that not feeling special bug burrowing into my head. All the years before the A weren't special...it took him 19 months to make this change...and then all the years to get us away from OW...it's annoying that I have to suffer the most consequences for his actions. While she got instant gratification. I guess that's where my desire for him to break down comes from. I can't change the past. I can't change his 19 months of douchiness. What right now can show me how special I am? Because she got to know how special she was the instant he chose her over his wife and kids. Bleh...I know she takes up too much headspace.

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 1:24 PM, October 14th (Monday)]


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1727 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally get it. My husband spent 5years in affairs, being a total asshole. Then 18 months after DDay1 (6 months after dday2) before he finally started to change.

We want to feel important now. THey got instant gratification, so did their AP. What about us?!?!?!

I get it, I really do. We want to feel special, important.

I told my husband, I want to know I was worth fighting for, that you'd fight for me as hard as I fought for you.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally get what you are saying. My fWH has never been afraid to cry, in the 28 years we've been together he has cried WAY more times than I have. And yet, since D-Day, I have seen plenty of frustration, fear, anger, defensiveness... all kinds of emotions, but very little in the way of gut-deep, heart-wrenching tears or just... I don't know how to describe it... emotional devastation? Our MC tried to get me to explain exactly what I mean when I say I want to see remorse. And it's this thing that I mean... I want to see him down on his knees in a sobbing mess. I want to see genuine, snot-faced, streaming tears emotion It's all very well saying "I am deeply remorseful" and buying me flowers and doing all the right things (and he has been doing all the right things, I have to admit that)...yet somehow, deep inside me, I still feel that there is something missing and it's the deep "unfakeable" emotion. I need to see him really broken at the thought of what he did and I have yet to see that.

What right now can show me how special I am? Because she got to know how special she was the instant he chose her over his wife and kids.
For me it all stems from this ^^ She got to SEE how special she was. She got to see him lying to me so that he could be with her. She had no doubt in her mind that she was special to him, because, my god, he jumped through hoops to be with her. I on the other hand feel so second-class... he came crawling back to me with his tail between his legs when she dumped him. Not because I excited him, or because he felt passionate about me, but rather because I was the old faithful wife, the default option, the mother of his kids, the provider of his meals and laundry... Now I feel like I need some great big physical display to show me that I have value and meaning beyond the material comforts... I want to know that I arouse in him some passionate feelings too!


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1023 | Registered: Oct 2012
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am inclined to agree with sisoon, based on my personal experiences. I used to feel safe expressing emotions in front of my wife; for a few years there I didn't. If I felt the need to cry about anything I disappeared for awhile.

My kids ask "Why doesn't daddy ever cry?" sometimes. So it can also be something besides feeling safe; I don't let my sons see me cry because I don't want them to carry that. Not saying he is inclined to treat you like a child, but possibly that he does not want to break down in front of people he feels are depending on him.

This is probably a really good talking point for MC if you guys are seeing one.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7488 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
ILINIA
♀ Member
Member # 39836
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When he said that he "choose me", I turned it around and said "No, it is my decision on whether or not I choose you." It helps realize that I have some power over the situation as well.

My WH hasn't cried either, he claims he has never cried in his life. It does bother me, as it would be nice to see his feelings. For the first 3 months, I cried every day. I just wanted him to shed a tear. Even better, I want us to cry together, I think it may help me heal. Maybe I will ask in MC.


Entering R slowly and cautiously...

Posts: 492 | Registered: Jul 2013
betraydtwice
Member
Member # 38921
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She got to SEE how special she was. She got to see him lying to me so that he could be with her. She had no doubt in her mind that she was special to him, because, my god, he jumped through hoops to be with her. I on the other hand feel so second-class... he came crawling back to me with his tail between his legs when she dumped him. Not because I excited him, or because he felt passionate about me, but rather because I was the old faithful wife, the default option, the mother of his kids, the provider of his meals and laundry... Now I feel like I need some great big physical display to show me that I have value and meaning beyond the material comforts... I want to know that I arouse in him some passionate feelings too!


Oh this is sooooo how I feel too. Very sad


Posts: 148 | Registered: Apr 2013
Almost12Years
♀ Member
Member # 34861
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our MC tried to get me to explain exactly what I mean when I say I want to see remorse. And it's this thing that I mean... I want to see him down on his knees in a sobbing mess. I want to see genuine, snot-faced, streaming tears emotion It's all very well saying "I am deeply remorseful" and buying me flowers and doing all the right things (and he has been doing all the right things, I have to admit that)...yet somehow, deep inside me, I still feel that there is something missing and it's the deep "unfakeable" emotion. I need to see him really broken at the thought of what he did and I have yet to see that.

This ^^^ word for word. This is probably THE biggest issue I continue to struggle with, and I can't seem to let it go. Things are going well, and I do believe he's remorseful BUT I also think I made things too easy on him, that he doesn't fully understand the devastation he brought on me.

On the other hand, I totally see that I'm often victim to "fairy tale" thinking and try to remember that just because his remorse doesn't manifest the way *I* want it to, doesn't mean it's not real. And like Samantha said, just because they sob and bawl like a baby doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Things feel different between us - in a positive way - so I try to focus on that. But I totally understand wanting to witness that brokenness..


Me - BW (38). Him - FWS (35)
College sweethearts
M - 13 years; together 16
DD (9) and DS (7)
Blindsided by confession on 2/17/12
6+ mo. EA/2x PA

Putting the pieces back together, day by day. Hardest thing I've ever done.


Posts: 224 | Registered: Feb 2012
SoVerySadNow
♀ Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^^this for me too.
I need to see it.


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
roses303
♀ Member
Member # 40161
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, October 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Things feel different between us - in a positive way - so I try to focus on that. But I totally understand wanting to witness that brokenness..

This exactly. I'm never going to see him broken but part of that is because he was broken long before the affair. Right now he needs to work on being strong and self assured because his lack of those qualities made him open to the ego kibbles AP gave him. So I may not ever see the vulnerability I want to see but in all honesty I need to see the strength more.


Me: BW - 46
Him: WH - 49
MOW: my BFF from college and good friend for 25 yrs
Married 14 years, 2 Tweens
DD: 5/20/13 2 year long EA/PAs (one 7 yrs ago and one this past year)
Status: day by day, in MC, working on R

Posts: 141 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: roses303
Topic Posts: 17

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