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User Topic: Have you heard of Mort Fertel?
strongerdaybyday
♀ Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Apparently he's a "global marriage expert" I stumbled across his 6 unconventional things you should do to save your marriage:
ē Go at it ALONE. Most people think, ďI need my spouse to work with me to fix our marriage.Ē But it does not take two to tango. One personís effort can change the momentum of a marriage, and very often, itís that effort that motivates the obstinate spouse to join in the process of saving the relationship.

ē The wrong question. Many people wonder, ďDid I marry the right person?Ē But thatís the wrong question. The key to succeeding in marriage is not finding the right person; itís learning to love the person you found. Love is not a mystery. Just as there are physical laws of the universe Ė like gravity, which governs flight Ė there are also relationship laws that, depending on your behavior, dictate the outcome of your marriage. You donít have to be ďlucky in love.Ē Itís not luck; itís choice.

ē Absence does not make the heart grow fonder. That might have been true in junior high school when you went away for the summer. But in marriage, particularly in a broken marriage, absence separates people. It creates distance, and thatís the opposite of what weíre trying to achieve, which is closeness.

ē Donít talk about your problems. Talking about the problems in a marriage doesnít resolve them; it makes them worse. It leads to arguments and bad will. Besides, youíll never talk yourself out of a problem that you behaved yourself into. Marriages change because people change. Say little; do much. Speak in the vocabulary of your actions. New choices resolve marital problems; discussion donít.

ē Donít think marriage counseling is the answer. Marriage counseling does not work in most situations. The success rate is dismal. Most couples report being worse off after marriage counseling. One of the reasons relates to point 4 above.


ē Donít talk to family or friends about your situation. One of the most important values in a marriage is privacy; therefore, itís a mistake to talk about your marriage or your spouse to family or friends. Itís a violation of your spouseís privacy and itís wrong

Thoughts on the above fellow SI-ers?

Edited to say: I don't agree with everything he says (some of it makes sense, but can it be applied to those of us who've been betrayed?), just wondering what others thought of this.

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 9:15 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 380 | Registered: Aug 2013
TrustedHer
♂ Member
Member # 23328
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe, perhaps, those rules make some sense, in the context of the everyday stress and strife of a solid marriage.

Maybe.

After the trauma of adultery?

My judgment says complete and utter bullshit, times 6.

Starting with #1: What, your WS goes on cake eating, and your actions make the A stop... How?

#2: He'd really advise you to "learn to love" someone who is in the process of disrespecting and endangering you?

#3: Absence might not make the heart grow fonder, but boundaries and 180 make your mind go clearer.

#4: How, exactly, did you behave yourself into your spouse cheating? Now it's your fault?

#5: MC has a high failure rate. Guess what? People happy in their marriages don't generally go to MC.

#6: By all means, protect your spouse's privacy at the expense of your mental and physical health.

Mort sounds like a wayward to me.


Take care of yourself. There's a great future out there. It won't come to you; you have to go to it.

Posts: 5115 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: DeepInTheHeartOf, TX
HeartInADustpan
♀ Member
Member # 38341
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't agree with much of it myself.

Going at it alone - Not sure if he's meaning not being codependent. If so, I agree. Codependency is not healthy. I'm living proof.

Don't really agree with #2. Circumstantial I suppose. If I married and then he started abusing me in (fill in the blank way), I'm not going to "learn to love" him.

I mostly agree with his remark on absence. KB said so many times he'd leave if I wanted him to. Trust me, I did, but I never told him to go because I knew/wanted him to see the pain. He is my biggest trigger, so there was a lot of pain to see. I would have been sooooo pissed if he just "got off the hook" and left while I was in misery. This is for sure not true for all BS's, but it was for me.

Talking about problems. Wrong 100%. Yeah, ignore the elephant in the room because that always works well. I do agree marriages change because people change. However, how are you or your spouse supposed to know if change is needed if you don't talk about it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding his point.

Agree and disagree about MC. Some need it, some don't. I'm glad I had it.

I do agree with this. I am a HUGELY private person both personally and in my M. KB, on the other hand, had diarrhea of the mouth to anyone who would listen. IC, MC (yeah, what you "shouldn't do") and talking about it (another "shouldn't do") helped him reel in that habit. It was part of my R demands. Our M is OURS.

Just my 2.


Just call me Heart. :)
Reconciling
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything" ~Mark Twain

Posts: 379 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
PhoenixRising88
♀ Member
Member # 35214
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with the 'absence does not make the heart grow fonder". The rest of it? What a douchebag, no freaking clue what he's talking about...


Me: BS (43)Him: EX, aka "The Dink"(50)
D-Day#1 12/22/11. D-Day#2 5/23/2013.

Divorce final 2/10/14.

Throw me to the wolves and I'll return leading the pack.


Posts: 426 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: North Texas
SurelyNOT
♀ Member
Member # 40617
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, have got to check this out for myself. Don't have an opinion as of yet, until I read it fully.

Posts: 95 | Registered: Sep 2013
strongerdaybyday
♀ Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe, perhaps, those rules make some sense, in the context of the everyday stress and strife of a solid marriage.
Maybe.

After the trauma of adultery?

This^^

Going at it alone - Not sure if he's meaning not being codependent. If so, I agree. Codependency is not healthy. I'm living proof.

And this^^ When I read it I thought, "so I should work 100% by myself on the problems...even though HE had the A? OR is he saying to do a 180 - if you're co-dependent it's time to stop. I wasn't totally clear on this.

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 9:45 AM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 380 | Registered: Aug 2013
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I stumbled across his 6 unconventional things you should do to save your marriage

I have never heard of Fertel, but I don't think these things are unconventional at all. I agree with all of them and they helped with a successful R.

Particularly important is the Go at it ALONE. I wouldn't quite word it this way, but as a BS I felt more empowered when I took control of R. I realized we both had no clue what made a good relationship; especially my FWW. After studying and understanding the psychology of relationships, I was able to make and suggest changes that worked well for both of us. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but it worked for me.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
Jennifer99
♀ Member
Member # 39551
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmmm. I check out his website, sign up for his free newsletter or whatever. And the very next email I get is from AdultFriendFinder which I have NEVER been to.

Posts: 556 | Registered: Jun 2013
strongerdaybyday
♀ Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Hardenmyheart

Particularly important is the Go at it ALONE. I wouldn't quite word it this way, but as a BS I felt more empowered when I took control of R. I realized we both had no clue what made a good relationship; especially my FWW. After studying and understanding the psychology of relationships, I was able to make and suggest changes that worked well for both of us

I can relate to it being worded the way you wrote it.

Jennifer99-

Hmmm. I check out his website, sign up for his free newsletter or whatever. And the very next email I get is from AdultFriendFinder which I have NEVER been to.

Hmmm...is he creating his own clients? what a coincidence re: the next email you got!

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 12:40 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 380 | Registered: Aug 2013
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Harden - really? not talking about your problems worked?


and where does one get support if they dont go to MC or talk to family/friends about it?


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

ďSlide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4501 | Registered: Dec 2010
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ummm...my initial thought is 'If I stifle myself, I can have a good M with another person who stifles herself.'

And: He takes rug-sweeping to a new level....

'Mort Fertel' sounds like a name out of a 1958 Mad Magazine. (Of course, the writers used names of people they knew....)


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9757 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Harden - really? not talking about your problems worked?

Once you understand the underlying issue, you take action to resolve it. It only becomes a problem when both people dig in and refuse to let go. I think the following summarizes this nicely:

Say little; do much. Speak in the vocabulary of your actions. New choices resolve marital problems; discussion donít.

Actions speak louder than words.

and where does one get support if they dont go to MC or talk to family/friends about it?

I would recommend books, IC, and SI.

After D-day my wife and I used her IC as both our MC as well. I thought she was very good as an MC, but as a BH I got a lot more out of IC when we were early in R; especially when it came to emotional support.

ETA: I did tell one close friend. Even though he was very supportive and helpful, I wish I had not said anything. This was really not fair to my FWW. Even though he was always gracious to her, I know she felt awkward when he was around. It's a mute point now because, sadly, my friend passed away a few years ago.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 2:22 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ummm...my initial thought is 'If I stifle myself, I can have a good M with another person who stifles herself.'

It's not about stifling or rugsweeping. It's about understanding, acknowledging, and accepting. During R, I was heavily guided by the following quote by the philosopher Baruch Spinoza:

Emotion, which is suffering, ceases to be suffering as soon as we form a clear and precise picture of it.


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Once you understand the underlying issue, you take action to resolve it

and if the underlying issue is conflict avoidance? You don't avoid conflict.. however, that means you TALK about it.

another underlying issue: triggers. There's no way I suck it up and not turn to my husband for comfort.

[This message edited by rachelc at 2:50 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

ďSlide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4501 | Registered: Dec 2010
BIZZYBEEZ
♀ Member
Member # 37645
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H & I were each given a copy of the book Marriage Fitness after DD. There is some really good useful stuff in the book. With that being said just like SI - you take what you need & leave the rest. It's not a one size fits all.


BW (me) - 47
WH (him) - 39
DDay - 10/22/2012 (worst day of my life)

Learning to breathe again - one day at a time


Posts: 235 | Registered: Nov 2012
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and if the underlying issue is conflict avoidance?

Conflict can only occur if two people disagree. Once you clearly understand the disagreement, you do something positive to resolve it. If the same conflict keeps happening, then you are not understanding the underlying issue.

I'm not saying you don't TALK about an issue to gain better insight and understanding of your spouses point of view. However, there is no reason that talking has to turn into a conflict; unless both people are unwilling to change.

another underlying issue: triggers. There's no way I suck it up and not turn to my husband for comfort.

By all means, turn to your H for comfort. That's one of the reasons you married him.

The more interesting question for me was an understanding of triggers and why do they cause suffering. Once I understood and acknowledged the fears behind the triggers, I could comfort myself. Eventually the triggers became powerless.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 3:06 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 29 years, Happily Reconciled

Posts: 5622 | Registered: Aug 2007
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's a lot to comment on here, but I read one page by him on the web, and I think he's full of shit. JMO.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 19795 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
SerJR
♂ Member
Member # 14993
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found his material to be rather empty. It says no more than pretty much what's in the first post, with the rest of the book filled out with fluff about how wonderful he and his program are.


Me: BH - Happily remarried.
Hope is never lost. It exists within you - it is real. It is not a force in and of itself - it is something that you create with every thought, action, and choice you make. It is a gift that you create for yourself.

Posts: 17093 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Further North than South
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah and I want a book deal!
crap!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3185 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, October 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the headers are misnomers, designed to attract attention. The descriptions don't really go with them. If we break them down, I think they mean:

1. One person changing strategy or commitment CAN create change in a marriage. You can only control yourself; be the change you want to see. This can be effective.

2. Stop always looking at what you are getting, and focus on what you are giving. It isn't about them being the right or wrong person; you chose them. They must have been right at one time.

3. Spend time together. As much as possible.

4. Actions speak louder than words.

5. Fix your marriage problems with the above, instead of traditional MC because traditional MC doesn't always work. (And we all know that is true, right? Much of it is bad, look at how many bad ones we see here).

6. Don't trash your spouse to others. Respect your spouse and keep your relationship between the two of you.

In this sense, I agree with all of the above.

That said, these don't work in abusive situations or when dealing with a personality disorder so there is always that caveat. They also might not be enough post infidelity, but if both partners in a marriage were using thing PRE-infidelity, maybe there would be no infidelity. The betraying partner wouldn't have had the time to let their shitty coping skills nuke the marriage. They would have been less focused on themselves, and more focused on the union. /spitballing

[This message edited by Rebreather at 3:49 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6306 | Registered: Jan 2011
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