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User Topic: Why Not For Me?
motod
♂ New Member
Member # 37206
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, October 17th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your WW did those things with OM because she desired OM more than she desires you and she felt emotionally safer with OM than she feels with you. She demoted you to second place, so is that where you want to live the rest of your life? Good Luck.

Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2012
breakingpoint
♀ Member
Member # 40963
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, October 17th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible that this shows that she is MORE comfortable with you than him? If its something that she really isn't into she may have felt pressure or fear of rejection from the OM for saying no, but is comfortable being honest with you?

Maybe I am way off, but just a thought.


Posts: 115 | Registered: Oct 2013
Thessalian
♀ Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, October 17th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible that this shows that she is MORE comfortable with you than him? If its something that she really isn't into she may have felt pressure or fear of rejection from the OM for saying no, but is comfortable being honest with you?

I am a BS, not a WS, but I think I have something to add to this. In my life, I was way, way more wild in bed with men I didn't really care about than I was with my husband or long-term boyfriends. Why? Because I didn't care about connecting with the other guys at all. Sex wasn't about two people honestly connecting for me, it was, in some weird way, a bit performative.

I guess I could explain this on a scale of actual intimacy.

The bottom of the scale (where I was with people I slept with once or with people I never trusted or formed an actual honest relationship with): I SEEMED completely uninhibited and would do anything and everything because, hey, if I seem super sexual this guy will think I'm hotter. I wanted these guys to want me, desire me, see me as a seductress, and that's the real gratification I was getting out of that sex. I was not actually connecting with those people in any real way. Sure, sometimes it was fun and sure, sometimes I got off. Mostly because I felt sexy. But I didn't feel connected to these people because I was essentially lying to them sexually. I was ignoring my actual sexual needs and just getting, essentially, attention and ego-gratification. Worse, I was too uncomfortable around them to say 'no' when they wanted to do something I didn't really like, so when they did ask for something like that, I just turned on the 'ugh, who cares?' part of my brain, pretended to be into it, and focused on 'performing well' so the guy would think I was awesome and hot.

The middle of the scale (how I started out with my husband and where I got to with most long-term boyfriends): I would just have normal, a bit vanilla, sex. I was worried what the other guy thought of me, because there was an emotional connection. I was actually nervous about being laughed at if I did something wild and he thought it was stupid. I didn't just want this guy to think of me as a sex object, or his hot mistress, I wanted him to respect me on all kinds of levels. In other words, didn't want to be rejected by this guy because I actually loved him and the stakes were high, whereas in stage 1, I didn't want to be rejected by the other guy because it would just be a blow to my sexual ego but ultimately the stakes were very low. So I didn't try anything crazy because it was always a bit of a concern that he'd think I was dirty - not a debilitating concern, just... it was there. Also in this band, I was not really performing for the other guy, I was actually focused a little on my pleasure and his own as well, mental and physical. I was comfortable enough to actually say that I didn't want to try something because I could be more honest about what I actually wanted. Anyway, in my marriage, after several years of this and after our sexual patterns had been establisehd, even if I wanted to get wild, it was hard because breaking a sexual pattern takes a lot of work and it's hard to take that leap, and sometimes you don't even realize you need to take it. The bottom line is that I vastly prefer this kind of sex to bottom-of-the-scale "wild" sex.

The top of the scale (where my WH and I are working on now): All my sexual inhibitions are out the window because I realize how stupid they were, and I realized, as you mentioned, that it's screwed up thinking. I'm back to being wild, but it's in no way performative, I'm not doing it because I need unhealthy validation. I've had lots of bottom-of-the-scale "wild" sex in my life, but this is definitely the first time I've ever actually felt like I was having it for me, honestly, openly, and with trust. It feels like I've never even done this before, it's so different. We're genuinely experimenting together because we trust each other enough to be direct and open. I tell my husband what I like and don't like, he tells me too. If something's not working, we stop each other. No one is under any pressure to "perform", and neither are we embarrassed about what we want to do. I am willing to try things he wants to please him, and he is willing to do the same for me. We set aside the fears of rejection, and now the connection is both emotional and sexual. I'm just starting that process, but it's a big deal and pretty amazing. Sure, some of these are the same acts as the ones I performed at the bottom of the intimacy scale (though at this point, we've gotten much crazier than I ever did with short-term flings!), but what we're doing could not possibly be more different. It doesn't even compare. I vastly prefer this kind of sex to middle-of-the-scale sex.

I don't know your situation well enough to tell you if that's the same thing or not, but as a woman, I can tell you that it's possible your WS was in the middle of the scale with you and at the bottom of it with OM. I can promise you she wasn't at the top of it with him, because that kind of sexual connection can only be based on total honesty and a very high level of mutual respect, which they could not possibly have had.

I don't know if that's any comfort to you, but I feel like men have this idea that women are either wild in bed or "good girls" in bed, and there's this misconception that these two things are on the opposite ends of a sliding scale. I don't think it works like that - there are other elements involved. That's just how I've been quantifying my sex life and thought I'd share.

[This message edited by Thessalian at 10:16 PM, October 17th (Thursday)]


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 163 | Registered: Sep 2013
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, October 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thessalian, thank you for your insight and honesty. I wish my WW was like you in addressing her hang-ups. Had she been honest about who she really was and her needs throughout the marriage, she and I might have avoided the heartache we are going through now. It is funny because most of your points were reflected in the conversation I had with my WW last night.

As I said I sent the kids to the movies and the wife and I sat across from one another at the dining table with a bottle of wine between us and we had a long and much overdue talk about the nature of her sexual activities with the OM and the affair in general.
Most of what she told me I already knew. Some of the specific sexual details were hard to hear, but by the end of the evening she had answered most of my questions to my satisfaction.

Once she was loosened up with wine, she began to really pour her heart out to me in a direct and refreshingly open way. It was heartbreaking at times, but also strangely comforting.

She mentioned many similar feelings and hang-ups Thessalian listed about having sex with me; the way she viewed sex in our marriage; and how many of her attitudes about me and what she should be giving me sexually have been destructive over time. She grabbed my hands and said she wants more than anything to be completely open to me sexually, but that it has always been hard for her to attach sexual openness with marriage… much of this hang-up stemming from her puritanical upbringing (her parents were psycho-Christian zealots).

It was draining and emotional. By the time we were done she just sat there with her face in her hands. She knows our relationship is hanging by a thread now. She knows, without a doubt, that as far as I am concerned the progress we have made over the last year has been pretty much destroyed. She understands that as far as I am concerned, she has lied to me about who she is and what she has truly wanted for the majority of our marriage, and that I am no longer going to tolerate her hiding her true self from me.

I told her the way I see it she and I have three options going forward:

Option 1: We recommit to be totally honest and completely open with each other regarding all our needs in the marriage: emotionally, sexually and intellectually. No more fake Christian role-playing, no more lying, no more facades. We actively work to build a completely new marriage. We attend both marriage counseling and sex therapy to enhance and rebuild the emotional and physical intimacy in our relationship. I agree to not berate or badger her anymore about the affair, and she agrees to complete and absolute transparency in all aspects of our relationship.

Option 2: She and I stay married but essentially live as two single people sharing parenting duties who happen to live on the same property. I clean out the mother-in-law’s cottage out behind our house and move in there. We co-parent our children and try to create as normal a life for them as we can, but essentially there would be no marital relationship. She will be allowed to find and date the OM if she wishes, or live out her porn starlet fantasies with other men whenever she wants as long as she does it discreetly and doesn’t bring any of these men home. I will date other women and get my sexual needs met elsewhere.

Option 3: Divorce as amicably as possible.

She frowned when I mentioned Option 2 and nearly cried when I mentioned Option 3. I told her I did not want an answer now. I am planning to head up to the San Juan Mountains to camp with two of my buddies for the weekend. I told her that on Sunday night I want her answer.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Thessalian
♀ Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, October 18th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Once she was loosened up with wine, she began to really pour her heart out to me in a direct and refreshingly open way. It was heartbreaking at times, but also strangely comforting.

Had this experience with my WH as well. It hurt to hear it all, but it was nice to feel like I was seeing the real him for once.

She grabbed my hands and said she wants more than anything to be completely open to me sexually, but that it has always been hard for her to attach sexual openness with marriage… much of this hang-up stemming from her puritanical upbringing (her parents were psycho-Christian zealots).

I think this is actually pretty common. My WH's parents are lightly Catholic (not zealots in any way), but I still think there may be a little of this in him.

I so, so, so hope your WW chooses Option 1 (if that's what you want). Have an amazing trip. I'll have you two in my thoughts this weekend.

[This message edited by Thessalian at 8:17 PM, October 18th (Friday)]


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 163 | Registered: Sep 2013
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well I had a very good time camping and hanging out out with the guys. These friends all know what happened with my wife and have been very supportive. One of them went through the same hell with his fWW and they are still married 10 years later. He gives me lots of great advice.

When I got home my wife was at the door to meet me and she gave me a huge hug and deep kiss and then whispered in my ear that she wants to do Option 1.

I responded she had to be all in or I wasn't going to do it and she assured me she was.

We and the kids had a great dinner that she had prepared and now I have to unload my truck. I don't know how I feel. Part of me feels positive, the other part says "hey, she told you all this back in August last year, and she still never came clean on anything. work with her but don't trust her completely."

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 7:15 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
OK now
♀ Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I must say she sounds pretty sincere to me. Advise you to give it a 100% try and it does seem if you have a real good chance of successful reconciliation.

Posts: 1704 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, October 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She seems to be serious. I think she wants to have a genuine marriage. Up until all of this went down, she admits that she was role playing, trying to be the wife she thought I wanted her to be. When she discovered I wanted her to be herself and just be real and open to me, she just didn't know how to react to that. So for the last year she has been skirting and meneuvering around the issues, trying to placate me instead of laying it all out there for us to deal with.

It's frustrating when you have a spouse who is more agenda driven than honest. I told her I'm not playing games with her anymore. If she wants to play act the wifey role, she can go find the OM and do it with him. I want an authentic partner to share my life with, not an actress. I think she finally gets it.

We'll see.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
Topic Posts: 28
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