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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, November 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, re: making out

The thing FWW disliked most about 2007 OM was that he wanted to kiss so much. She would rather give a blowjob than kiss, and did for most her OM. 2007 OM was a PE, so he wanted lots of kissing because once she touched him he was done.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are no guarantee's. Who is making this guarantee, tryn'?

The guarantee is base on the human law of reciprocity. Give, and it will be given to you.



Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, re: making out
The thing FWW disliked most about 2007 OM was that he wanted to kiss so much. She would rather give a blowjob than kiss, and did for most her OM. 2007 OM was a PE, so he wanted lots of kissing because once she touched him he was done

I am going to tell you something.. That is absolutely absurd.

If my W told me that.. I would say.. OK, You would rather give BJ verse kissing. Get on it.

I would forget about that comment.. You just start slow.. in time.. she will want to kiss you.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, You would rather give BJ verse kissing. Get on it

I was thinking the same thing, lol.

As to the discussion regarding reciprocity, etc.
I get it in theory, Im just not sure that it is reflected in reality. I am very happy for you Tryn that you have found this balance with your wife. I'm not sure that others, however, will.

We are not robots. Some of the things you have suggested require an effort of superhuman like proportions, when all the facts and circumstances are considered.

I mean, if there was no trauma, betrayal involved & we were talking about a relationship untainted and undamaged, maybe that would work. But,I still dont think anything affair proofs a marriage. You can reduce the risk, of course, but I think that's about it. We don't always know what the other person wants or needs, despite exploring the topic with him/her, and of course there are the cake eaters..


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfortunately, that isn't realistic or reality, tryn. It is beyond foolish to depend on that.

As far as MisterSister and I "making out" before d-day. No, that had stopped. MisterSister refused to quit smoking cigarettes and it disgusts me. Don't like sticking my tongue in what seemed like an ashtray. Another way he showed his selfishness. He would rather smoke cigarettes than makeout with his wife. However, that isn't why MisterSister committed adultery and it is ridiculous to connect the two.

If you are not filling a need or want in your spouse, YOU leave the door open for another to fill it.
No, this isn't true. The WS leaves the door open. A faithful spouse always has that door closed. MisterSister was leaving my needs and wants unfulfilled by him. Because I had affair proofed myself, I made sure that door was closed to anyone except FWH. When I got married, I closed that door to any other person, only FWH had access to that door. No matter what. That is what we said in our vows. "In good times, and bad times."

What if the spouse doesn't let you know what the need or want is? What if the need or want is repugnant to you? They get to go get it from someone else?

There are many who filled every "want" and "need" of their spouse. Their spouse still cheated. Aside from NPD's and BPD's, there are other spouses that don't have these kind of mental health issues but still cheat. The "needs" of the cheating spouse has nothing to do with the faithful spouse. Whilst my FWH isn't NPD or BPD, he had a hole in him that he wouldn't see or fix. He blamed it on everyone and everything else except himself. He refused to see that he needed to "fix" himself and that it wouldn't be fixed by "things" or "T.C.".

I used to believe that my FWH would never cheat on me. Now I live in reality. I can trust my FWH. I can see that he has changed, that he has worked on "affair proofing" himself. However, I will not ever believe that he won't or couldn't betray me at any given moment. I do not live in fear of it. I trust myself. That is all I can do.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:44 AM, November 14th (Thursday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8950 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

More later, but for me, affair-proofing my marriage also means that I shoulda/woulda/coulda divorced my WW well before the A happened.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

affair-proofing my marriage also means that I shoulda/woulda/coulda divorced

Excellent point, Jack. That is the one thing I do blame myself for pre d-day. Not divorcing the selfish ass and leaving myself open to be so traumatized by his selfish behaviour.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8950 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is no way to affair proof a M.

I personally think that if I need to spend my time figuring out ways to meet needs, worrying that if I don't someone else will meet them, then I am perpetually walking on eggshells. Did I love WW enough today? Did I talk enough to her today? Did I touch her enough? Did I forget to do something and is she going to go out now and find that with someone else? Yes I am likely over simplifying but it gets back to what I consider a core belief around SI. You can only control yourself. So no matter what you do if your spouse was going to cheat then guess what they are going to cheat. If you want to do those things for your W or H then do them because it's what you want to do but don't have any illusion that doing that will keep them from cheating because it won't. There are many BS's around here that were great spouses and were cheated on. The thread on "reasons my spouse gave me for cheating" had some outlandish reasons in it that always had nothing to do with the BS and everything to do with the WS justifying why they cheated in the first place.

Yes it helps if you are a spouse that actually loves your H or W and is productive and communicative in the M. Even if you weren't and sat around all day doing absolutely nothing your spouse always had the option to leave you versus cheating on you.

When I left SI for a year prior to coming back I went over at the "Harley" site. I also read the "affair proofing your M" book. Decent site but I couldn't get past the feeling that "it was my fault I cheated" because of some "need" I didn't or couldn't meet of my WW. It was on me to figure out why my WW cheated and I couldn't wrap my head around that. It was all about first manipulate your WW back into the M then figure out what needs she believes aren't being met and work on those. To me that equates to ALWAYS pouring water into the bucket with the hole in it instead of going directly to the source and fixing the hole. I am not knocking that site because it works for some people and I am sure I over simplified that as well. I was just more interested in my WW either fixing her problems or me moving on because I had been in limbo long enough and needed out. As for unmet needs, Naturegirl had an Absoultely EPIC rant in General on a thread about needs that pretty much spelled out how I feel about that. My needs weren't being met in the least and I didn't cheat so that line of thinking is complete bullshit IMO.

Back on track though, I was past the point of trying to meet needs or manipulate or coearce my WW back to me. I even tried being super nice and quality above and beyond what I had normally done. Nothing worked. So in the words of Tryn my wife disqualified herself. I was ok with that but what if she had responded??? She was responding to me essentially manipulating her by being something I wasn't and couldn't be for an extended period because I was still too angry and hurt. So as soon as I stopped she would have said I changed and gone right back to being miserable and I'm waiting for a 3rd dday at some point. I much rather prefer being myself all the time which includes being nice and doing things for a significant other but because I want to do them not because if I don't do them someone else will fill the void. If soemone else is going to fill the void then someone else is going to do it and I say to WW, leave and be happy with that someone else because I would rather live my life being true to myself then always walking on eggshells forever. Just my 2 cents.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister, I do connect my statement above to tryn's theories of reciprocity and being quality/attractive.

Had I been quality in years past, I would now be long divorced. My WW was oblivious to her selfishness and her not 'seeing' me. But, I was blind to the world I was in and due to my FOO issues, accepted not being 'seen' for who I am but instead just for the 'role' I was to play. Not anymore.

ok now I really gotta go...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... affair-proofing my marriage also means that I shoulda/woulda/coulda divorced my WW well before the A happened.

Me too. Had I established and enforced boundaries in the years before dday I would never have been cheated on by FWW.

Tryn, The comment that FWW would rather give a BJ than kiss is my comment based on what I know of her, not something she said. In her described interaction with OM, her abuser when she was a child, and to some extent with me, there are repeated examples of her moving to BJ to end the kissing. What she has said is that she does not like kissing, does not like being touched and held. When MC would suggest the obvious give her a hug for comfort or as a sign of affection, that is not something she would like or value, and she has said that in MC. OTOH, when we were dating, when she was flirting with OM or meeting with them she can be very, very sensual, seductive, tactile and responsive.

We don't always know what the other person wants or needs, despite exploring the topic with him/her, …

And at times the other person does not know what they need or want either. For most of the M FWW and I were frustrated that I was not giving her what she wanted, but it ends up that what she wanted (constant attention and affirmation) and what she needed (boundaries, expectations, IC) were different things.

I have recently tightened my boundaries on behavior, and called her out (or supportatively questioned her) on withdrawing and behaviors. She has been better at owning her behaviors, and admitting telling me she is embarrassed by her behaviors or perceived neediness and that is why she is shutting down while she ruminates and has a pity/shame part. It is still a problem that she is unwilling to share the feelings she is having and struggling with that affect her behavior and our relationship.

FWW would be the first to admit, and has, that there is no way that I or anyone could do enough to meet all of her perceived needs. She realizes that she needs to be responsible for her happiness, and that what I provide should be the dessert, not the primary sustenance. She is frustrated that she understands the issue, understands what the IC told her, but is struggling to feel affirmed and happy with her life.

I am also pushing on the sex issue as years of trying it her way has not worked. She will admit that if she starts to engage in sex she usually gets aroused and enjoys it, but she will not initiate unless she is already aroused. She can tell me know if she does not want it, but I am tired of waiting or masturbating alone. So last night I initiated very directly making it clear I wanted her to provide me release. By the time we were done she had her vibrator out and was seemingly enjoying herself too. This is the first time we have had sex twice in a week as far back as I can remember.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister, I do connect my statement above to tryn's theories of reciprocity and being quality/attractive.
And I don't. I would be divorcing because I was sick of his selfishness and wasn't going to accept that anymore. It has nothing to do with reciprocity.

7 years, yes, Nature_Girls rant was epic. It actually brought me to tears. It really fits here in this discussion so I am going to quote her here.

Fuck.That.Bitch!
WARNING: This just pissed me off. Seriously pissed me off. I'm letting loose. Don't read if you're easily offended, 'cuz here I go:

You know what? I had unmet needs. Lots of unmet needs. But I didn't break my fucking marriage vows because my husband didn't meet my fucking needs. I needed to not be yelled at. I needed someone to hold me when my fucking sister & father died. I needed someone to tell me I was beautiful. Hell, I'd have settled to be told I was pretty. I needed someone to tell me that he loved the children I brought into this world. I needed someone to be nice to me and not make me feel like I was a waste of air (he actually would scream this in my face).

Fucking unmet needs!

Yeah, I needed someone who gave a shit if I got off in bed or not. I needed someone who comprehended the need of a woman to have some kind of foreplay to prepare her body for sex. I needed someone who could fucking stay hard long enough to even have fucking intercourse. On the other hand, I needed someone who understood that after relentless & mindless pounding to the point that my twat was bleeding, hey asshole, you should fucking just STOP already. What, me crying and begging you to stop wasn't enough of a clue? You think you're a fucking porn star now? I needed someone who didn't think that forcing his wife to give him hour-long blow jobs was her wifely duty. I needed someone who thought of ME during sex, what I wanted, what might give me pleasure, what might make me feel loved.

Fuckin' A I had unmet needs.

I swear, if anyone ever brings up the fucking unmet needs argument with me in person one more fucking time, I'm going to go fucking postal on them & lay them out. OMG, just fucking lay them out.

I needed a GD husband who, when I begged him to stay home & be with me & the kids on the weekends, wouldn't tell me to STFU and that I should be happy he came home at night to sleep. Yes, I should just be happy he came home at night to sleep. I needed a husband who would tell me he loved me. I needed to be told that he was glad he married me. I needed to be told that I was the best thing that ever happened to him. I needed to have a husband who said things like, "Happy Birthday" to me on my fucking birthday. I needed a husband who did things like get me something on Mother's Day. Not tell me to my face that since I wasn't his mother he didn't need to even fucking get me a fucking card for Mother's Day. I needed for the father of my children to not tell me that he'd never forgive me for having them, never get over how I'd ruined his life by forcing him to be a father.

Yeah, I had unmet needs. Every basic human need a woman would need from a man, from her husband, went utterly unmet. Not only unmet, but cruelly flaunted in my face unmet. When I begged, sometimes on my knees, for my needs to be met, he'd laugh at me and curse at me. When he found me crying quietly in a room downstairs, behind a closed door, and he asked me why I was crying and I told him it was because I was lonely & wanted someone to talk to, I need him to NOT tell me that I should find someone to pay to talk to me, 'cuz he didn't feel he should be bothered.

But I never cheated on him. Never even wanted to. He never had to worry about me. Through all the years of unemployment (because he couldn't keep a GD job to save his soul) I never ever ever once questioned him. Never said a word to him to undermine his self-confidence. I supported him in every way as he obtained various certificates to further his career. I helped him with his resume, fielded calls for him from recruiters, helped pick out his interview clothes & work clothes & made sure he had homecooked food to take to work for lunches and...

At my father's funeral, when an old boyfriend found out from my parents how shitty I was being treated, when he told me how sorry he was and that I didn't deserve to be treated that way, when he spontaneously gave me a hug that I did NOT seek, I didn't take him up on his unspoken comment. I knew right then & there that I could finally find comfort in a man's arms again. I knew it would be good sex because I knew how good we were together. But I didn't even say a word to him. I got up & walked to the other end of the room & avoided him for the rest of the night. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT A MARRIED PERSON DOES! MARRIED PEOPLE DON'T FUCK PEOPLE THEY AREN'T MARRIED TO. MARRIED PEOPLE DON'T EVEN GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR. MARRIED PEOPLE KNOW THEIR BOUNDARIES AND STAY WITHIN THEM.

My husband, now EX-husband, didn't cheat because he had unmet needs. The problem wasn't that I didn't meet his needs. I could suck his dick for an hour. I offered him unlimited sex. As someone who studied dance for about two decades, I could give him a sexy strip show of professional caliber on demand. I had my own business, I loved to cook, I was an interesting, intelligent, beautiful woman. The problem was not ME.

The problem was HIM. HE couldn't meet his own GD fucking needs. He was a fucking black hole of mental illness and perversion and insecurity that was impossible to fill.

FUCK all these people who whine & moan about their GD fucking unmet needs! Grow the hell up! What the hell is wrong with you?

This is how I feel about WS's claiming unmet needs and BS's believing that if you fulfill all needs that your spouse won't cheat. As 7years and I said, "Bullshit!".

Oh, Nature_Girl's WS wasn't quality? Of course he wasn't. But that is totally irrelevant.

ETA: Tryn', I strongly suggest you never bring up your views on unmet needs to Nature_Girl. Just sayin'.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:08 AM, November 14th (Thursday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8950 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SisterMilkShake:

OMG That is an awesome rant! Thanks for posting it.Tho, I have to say that I feel just awful for Nature Girl - what an awful way to be treated for so long.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

... affair-proofing my marriage also means that I shoulda/woulda/coulda divorced my WW well before the A happened.

Me too. Had I established and enforced boundaries in the years before dday I would never have been cheated on by FWW.

These quotes struck a chord with me. With xWH#1, I somehow knew deep inside that if I tried to enforce boundaries about his drinking/excessive softball playing (how can one play on 9 different leagues in one week? he did), never being home, that he would leave. And that is what happened. When it got to be so excessive and tried to put my foot down, he had the exit affair and left.
If I really enforced boundaries with current NPD, (although I really did try, but was gaslighted) I would have D him long ago.

I agree with Sister, we affair proof ourselves. We set the boundaries on ourselves. Why do we do it? It's not because our Spouses were so very wonderful, it was because it is RIGHT, we took our vows seriously. For God's sake, I have been told by many people I should be seeing someone since NPD has OW/OC's and was looking for #3 and right now is texting/flirting with another! and I'm not doing it, because we are not D and there is something in me that says it's wrong for me, the kids, and the new person right now. There are other healthier choices I can make, especially to heal myself and go forward with integrity.

Did NPD affair proof our M so much that I'm not doing it?

A LTA is not something that "just happened".

I think it all boils down to the WS choice to have an A in the first place. It doesn't matter what those reasons are: unmet needs, unhappiness, etc. There were a lot of choices to solve their problem that didn't involve the immense betrayal and damage to their spouse and family and often the AP's spouse and family.

It is an extremely selfish choice.

I always keep Ats saying in my head, "You can't nice yourself into a M". A M is two people working together.

And as 7 yrs said, I can't walk on eggshells all the time. Been there, done that. Can no longer be afraid that if for some reason I didn't please NPD, he'd get upset and go and call OW and ignore me.

Sister: Thank you for sharing Nature Girl's rant! That was excellent! I'm realizing more and more that when I read someone else's rants and posts that reveal something that they are feeling, so many times the poster is putting into words what I am feeling but unable to express.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

damn....how do I change my handle to NatureBoy ?!?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
ReunitePangea
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Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone that needs hour long BJs much have issues because for some reason they are not able to enjoy the BJ


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 399 | Registered: Nov 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mu[st] have issues because for some reason they are not able to enjoy...
^^^yep there are all kinds of screwed up out there. I don't think that I have ever posted this tmi-type info, but what OM really was into was jacking-off. Apparently, after some cursory sex, he would then get up and spend most of his time masterbating, ogling my wife on the bed, liked being wtached and allowed to do it. pretty fubar. even more fubar, why my WW thought this was 'good' or 'normal' or something to pine over...?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 791 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn: a question....how could so many of us "see" that being a quality husband or wife does not affair proof a marriage....and you don't....way too many times you have put yourself in the preachin mode of being a quality person within the marriage and the hiusband/wife would not have a need to cheat...

i wonder if you NEED to believe that in order for you to continue in your marriage..especially since your wife claims she is just fine and not the issue...because of her attendance at classes she "knows" enough....unless my memory is not so good and i am remembering wrong information..

there are waaay too many of us who were quality spouses to spouses who were crappy spouses and never did we ever consider cheating as an option....but according to you we would have been justified if we did...but ironically it was the crappy spouses who cheated on the quality spouses...

there is no logic, no sense in "non"sense...and every excuse in the book is just that an excuse...and never is it the cause or reason...

as for nature girls rant.....

LOVED IT!!! and unfortuantely i could relate to alot of it....


ats: you wife as made some amazing progress...and you are smart in taking yourelf out of the equation and not taking what she says and does personally....she is so wounded...and did i read correctly her om was her abuser????

and a friend of mine told me that giving a man a bj gives the woman a sense of power and control...and there is nothing "personal" in it like kissing..which is a highly personal act...when you kiss someone you do so with feeling...wheras a woman can give a bj without that "personal" feeling....i of course could not and do not understand this logic because to me having a mans dick in my mouth is as personal as it gets...but i do understand the control thing...not that i ever had or have...sex to me is an extension of feelings between 2 people...you feel it, you do it...you don't feel it..you don't do it...


and honest...i too see that you are evolving...and its beautful to watch...that metamorphisis is so overdue....

and as far as YOU dating...hon...you are married to a man who is married to another and looking for #3...if a man comes along who is willing to be there for you and date you...go for it dear heart....you owe NPD nothing....you owe yourself some overdue happiness...and if you do meet someone...keep him to yourself....you do not bring a man to your home to meet your kids until you know he is a keeper...so make sure a friend knows where and who you are with for your protection...but your kids...its none of their business....and that goes for you too allgood....life is way to short to waste a single minute waiting....we have spent entirely too much time waiting as is it....


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi iwam, I must have typed poorly, her abuser was an uncle who also touched her sister and flirted with her mother. Within this last year FWW and her sister sent this uncle a letter that he is not welcome at family events and explaining why.

FWW has talked of feeling power and in control when giving a BJ. She is also adamant that she was always on top when sexing the OM. She did not want to be "trapped" under them. I know this is not true, but speaks to what sex is for her.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3964 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well sister.. I appreciate you posting Of course, you know I have read Nature_Girls post.

When I read it. It was very sad too. My thoughts were... this is a very Very bitter angry woman. And yes she should be. She has every right to be that angry. Believe me when I say I have been there. I went way beyond that kind of anger.

I view that time in my life as ME being a boy.

Now I don’t know Nature_Girls. What I do know is this. She has something about her that Iwant, You, Honest, NJgal and Allgood do not have.

You guys know much of what I share is taught to me by a real therapist. He has panels of women he does focus groups.

I personally think that if I need to spend my time figuring out ways to meet needs, worrying that if I don't someone else will meet them, then I am perpetually walking on eggshells.

Ok I get that 7years. I have been exactly where you are at before I signed up for sex and behavior Therapy. Please take this as being interesting not offensive.

When men come in making comments like that, he will says you are an undeveloped man. And this is what will make him think that..

“I personally think that if I need to spend my time figuring out ways to meet needs,”
This say you do give a shit about what your woman thinks or feels.

then “I am perpetually walking on eggshells”
This says you are a man who lives in fear.

What he will then tell you.. You are going to give a shit and you are going to develop into a man where all good behaviors become a part of who you are. And you are going to have the confidence that NO WAY you live in fears. But I know you do give a shit and you do live in courage so I don't believe that is exactly what you meant.

YES MC.. You get EXACTLY what he thinks..

Had I been quality in years past, I would now be long divorced.

However, I will say, my bet is your W would have eaten this stuff up far before you even got to that final ultimatum.

He describes the different types of men.. perhaps same for women I made in an earlier post several days ago. If you are not a person who can..

Those who study, memorize, practice, implement, succeed, fail, work and study
some more, apply some more, succeed some more, fail some more ... to a point you fully absorb and become this man.. You will make your M affair proof and get what YOU want.


So 7years… Yes I agree with you and Sister.. If you don’t be the quality man you must now be, There is no way to affair proof you being in this situation. And you will continue to fail in relationships over and over.


Well Iwant Good question! How dare I be different.

tryn: a question....how could so many of us "see" that being a quality husband or wife does not affair proof a marriage....and you don't....

Well. because perhaps in all likelihood I have spent far more time looking at every aspect of sex, affairs, marriage, relationships, behavoirs..

- Retrouville.. over 40 hours
- All the books I have read (Maybe 30 or 40?)
- $5k spend in MC and IC
- $1000's in behavoir & sex theropy 237 hours.
- over 30 hours "listening" to people who cheated on there spouses.. To know the turning point and what was within them when they decided to cheat... People who answered my questions honestly and emotion free.
- reading all these post for 4 years on SI... having you fine folk in my journey.
- And.. stuff my W and friend have told me.

All that is my take on it.. and everyone is free to form there own opinion and moving on in life they so choose. Not many people are a fortunate as I have been in life to recieve he help I needed. So I mostly share what OTHERS, professionals who know what it means to be Married and Happy.

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:50 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
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Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there are waaay too many of us who were quality spouses to spouses who were crappy spouses and never did we ever consider cheating as an option....but according to you we would have been justified if we did...but ironically it was the crappy spouses who cheated on the quality spouses...

^^^^And there is the logical breakdown of the being a quality spouse to affair proof your marriage theory.

I would also enter my own situation as one that disproves the theory. As strange as it sounds when you do not know much about infidelity but affairs happen in good marriages - I thought my marriage was affair proof because we had a good marriage before DDay. I guess I could have seen how a druken ONS might happen but I would never have envisioned a LTA the entire time. To have a good marriage don't you have to have some quality characteristics for both spouses?

Also my WW's affair started day 1 we meet, are you really going to tell me I wasn't quality enough on our first date and that is why she cheated?

There are a variety of reasons why and different marriage environments that affairs start in - to pretend that you can affair proof a marriage by being quality is very narrow minded. I do not doubt that there are non quality spouses that provided a basis for the start of an A to occur - I cringe when I type that because I don't want that to be considered an acceptable excuse - but that is by no means the only marriage environment when they occur or likely the most common reason. I feel broken WS is a much more common reason - just do some reading on SI from both BS and WS and it is hard not to see that trend.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

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