DH: How are you doing? Keep us updated.
not all prey are created equal though...not all prey are victims...some are willing participants...
^^^at a minimum they are victims of themselves.
This struck me, because although neither I or WS was M at the time we met and dated, he was a predator putting on a mask that I so much wanted to believe that I ignored so many red flags that were yelling at me that he was cheating even when we were dating. I was very vulnerable at the time, since xwh#1 had left, deaths in the family, operations, etc.
I have made my decision. Starting to put things in place. Finally starting to detach and letting go emotionally. I think the main thing that helped me to finally move forward was trying to envision my future with NPD. Even if he did what I wanted, and even if he didn't do what he did, I tried to look at HIM and other things he has done in the past, especially with my older DS's. I tried to see my future. He will NEVER change. I will NEVER feel safe. I will always be walking on eggshells, and if I don't he'll end up doing the things he has done when he's mad: silent treatment and other emotionally blackmailing behaviors. He will never be able to have an intimate emotional relationship with me, or anyone else, for that matter.
Again, I look at what he did, the extreme selfishness of what he did and thinking about OW#2. I think that OW#2 did not want to share, but I believe he was willing to go forward. Stepping back and looking at this objectively, I see what a selfish bastard he is being not only to me, but his 5 kids (our 2 DS's and the 3 OC's)
I guess I think I'm finally at the point that the fear of staying in this sitch is worse than the fear of the unknown.
ok...honest: yay, yay and yay...its so good to hear your decision!!! it means you are moving forward in your heart......
step one completed: whats next honest!!!
He will NEVER change. I will NEVER feel safe
I guess I think I'm finally at the point that the fear of staying in this sitch is worse than the fear of the unknown.
Not a guess. Know that this is true.
And thank you for sharing the link - that was a great post - wish I had seen it years ago.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:41 PM, December 7th (Saturday)]
well...that post was brilliant...completely brilliant!!!! to say i loved it would be an understatement....thanks honest
Iwantamiracle - Yes it was another kick/hurt with losing my dog. I did let my guard down and let him in, stopped checking (my error) and was moving forward. In hindsight the signs were still there..I guess I just wanted to believe different.
Allgood - I did confront, my best friend said keeping this stuff in again will make me ill, I agreed and confronted even though in person would have been better. This gives me more time to make the plans I know I need to make. Bah at Christmas too, I may get through the holidays without saying anything so I don't make it difficult for my kids - even though they are grown.
I checked out the link, it was very helpful! Have a great Saturday all.
Try to take care of yourself. Have you gone to IC before? Maybe you could get in a few sessions before the holidays. Can you do some things to pamper yourself while you try to formulate a plan of action? A mani/pedi with girlfriends. A movie.
Your friend is right-stress and anxiety can really impact your health.
happy tuesday peeps...
I need a reality check, …
I think that I am going to begin to implement Tryn’s system of conflict when FWW gets back. I have waited 6 years for her to feel better about sex, letting her initiate, and we have not had sex since September, no touching other than a brief hug since before Halloween. Last trip she was on she told me to text her a personal picture so I did. I bought the briefs she said she wanted me to wear; I took and sent the pictures. No response. She later said she liked it but was tired and had to delete it right away. She has found time to watch lesbian porn on her phone while away, and this is post-dday, but never to send me a photo or do any stexting like she did with OM. Of course if we had sex/touching as a routine I am sure I would not be so fixated on the sexting. It was never an issue or expectation before.
I have raised a looming financial issue twice now and once she blew me off saying “well, we just have to (incur the expense)”, and the second time making it how she never gets what she wants. I am not going to simply make the money appear, that is where much of our non-mortgage debt came from. She is going to have to help solve the problem or it will not get solved.
Sitting watching television is not quality time for me. I get she is tired after physical work at her seasonal employment, but that is kind of her fault too. The time she is finding she is doing things with a friend or at an organization that I would not like or want to do. This is pre dday behavior where I am invited, but it is clear I am not wanted or expected to attend.
I have restrained from creating conflict, because I know that shame and feeling inadequate is a part of her problem. She does not feel empathy, so she does not “get” the problem. She is still unable to advocate for herself in our relationship, so I am left coddling her. Sometimes I fail at coddling, and her hurt appears as my fault for not coddling. There need to be some logical consequences. If she does not like my wanting sex with my wife, touch from my partner, and to touch my wife, then SHE can leave me. If she does not like doing the activities I arrange, she can arrange activities for us that we both can enjoy. If I am not meeting her needs; then she can, as I do with specificity, tell me what she would like. I do not mind doing laundry, cooking, dishwashing, vacuuming, and yard-work, but I am tired of doing the majority of those items along with finances, repairs, and bringing in 80% of the family income. If she does not like being asked to help with chores, she can D me.
Wow, I do have resentment sitting under the surface and I do feel like I need to create the conflict and get this expressed. It is time I was not the only one unhappy in our M.
No words of wisdom for you brother. I can only empathize as I do indeed and once again share very similar experience. Living with someone who is so lost and so passive, who just doesn't get it is dragging me down slowly like the proverbial boiled frog. But inert I remain. With no clear path or direction known.
Jesus, it's making me old.
Stay strong, stay focused on you and we are here whenever you need to vent.
I would be devastated if my FWH didn't want to have sex with me. De-va-stated. I feel putting tryn's system of conflict or any plan to get FWW motivated or moving forward towards what you want would be good.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
That's it. I dont' see it any way other than the way you see it. I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation. You don't deserve it. I'm curious to see how you will try to resolve this conflict with her as I know in the past, if I remember correctly, you had to go to pretty drastic measures (moving out) to get her to wake up and pay atention. I wonder if there's anything in between? (I can't think of anything.)
You have to be more assertive on your expectations though.
If she does not like my wanting sex with my wife, touch from my partner, and to touch my wife, then SHE can leave me.
If she does not like being asked to help with chores, she can D me.
I think you have the above statements backwards. It isn't that she can D you, you D her if your needs are not being fulfilled. She obviously is fine with the status quo and despite all of your effort which has been above and beyond necessary in my opinion, she does not appear motivated to change. So why would you expect her to D you?
In my opinion living in a sexless marriage when the spouse if fully able to participate is perfectly acceptable grounds for D. I don't think I would be able to live in that type of M for long. I don't know how you handle it especially when she finds the time to watch lesbian porn. She is using lack of sex in some sort of power control move over you, total BS (not betrayed spouse) move on her part.
I am thinking if I push things may get better and that is great. If I push and she is unhappy/uncomfortable, maybe she will work harder at leaving me. Right now, with FWW un(der)employed I cannot afford to support her and pay mortgage on upside-down house and help DSs with school. I know what typical support will be like for her in FL after a 20+ year M. If she were motivated to leave me she might do better at finding a job or other creative arrangement. Otherwise, when last child finishes school I will be able to afford to pay her support and cover my expenses.
Long-term my financials are OK, it is just tight with 2 kids in school and FWW unemployed for >50% of the last 4 years. In FL you cannot bankruptcy out from under a mortgage, it follows you. For now I would rather help my kids for 4-5 more years than D.
Her behavior re: sex is similar to descriptions for BPD women, it is also somewhat understandable given her history of sexual abuse. What frustrates me is that I do not see that she is trying to work on it or "get better". And sex is the trigger word, but really I am talking about everything from hugs, hair stroking, touching, back scratch, foot rub, tantra, and cuddling, to actual sex.
And it is not just the sex and touching. I am tired of having to tell her things 3 or 4 times. She cannot be bothered to put her schedule on the family calendar or check it when she makes plans. I am tired of hearing how things are not her fault, well then whose fault are they? Finally, I am just tired. Even my youngest son I can ask to do something and know it will get down, that he will inquire if unsure of instructions. I cannot rely on my W like that.
As I said before, in my perception of FWW the childlike has become childish, the innocence has become ignorance, the free spirit has become irresponsible, the spontaneous has become impulsive. I want to find a way to get my old perspective back to feel love and loved and see her in positives.
I don't know how you do it. My FWH is the exact opposite. He overwhelms me with enthusiasm and appreciation. That was what kept me in the marriage whenever I triggered or had my doubts after d-day.
What are you going to do?
I suppose you could just totally detach and just live your own life until you feel financially ready to divorce.
By' creating conflict' do you mean calling her out on her behavior?
I think you should definitely be honest with her and tell her how you feel.
The only problem is that you do not have a consequence to use as an ultimatum since you aren't ready to consider divorce.
So sorry- you deserve so much better.
it was a long response to ats...so maybe the gods are telling me to shut up and keep my opinions to myself....so i will not go through it but will merely say
the higher the expectation the higher the disappoinment...
and conflict will breed conflict and not resolution...
She cannot be bothered to put her schedule on the family calendar or check it when she makes plans.
This was a HUGE deal for me pre DDay and was one of the few conditions that I put on my WW after DDay. In all the years my WW cheated on me, I don't think she often lied to my face. She maintained her cheating by having a calendar that I never knew what was going on. If I were to question something I would get the you must have been not listening to me when I told you to get me to the point where I rarely ever questioned.
Just a suggestion but we use a calendar application on our phones called Cozi - it works great for us. The ap is free, you can log in on your computer too. All events go on the calendar - there is no more "I have this tonight, don't you remember?" It also saves past events so I can go back and check on things if I have any concerns. Life is so much easier with a good family calendar.