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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 33
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope-
I do believe it is possible for a FWS to become a better person and to regain integrity and character. In fact, I believe that someone can experience an epiphany after d-day and become a changed person.
It happened to my FWH.
He had a 5 yr LTA (and that only ended because I found out).
D-day was a huge wake up call for him. He had never been unfaithful before the LTA but he had not been the best husband or father due to his alcoholism and toxic thinking.

After d-day when he faced the prospect of living alone and losing everything that mattered to him he finally took a long hard look at himself and decided he didn't like what he saw.

He began changing by getting sober and going to AA.
He jumped in with both feet.Here he was...someone who never wanted to 'join' anything following the program by attending 90 meetings in 90 days.
He was also someone who had never wanted to go to MC or IC and now he jumped in with both feet-
He went to IC 2x per week for 6 months and then 1x per week for another year.

This was a man who also was very concrete and huge compartmentalizer. Someone who never allowed himself to really think deeply about things-an avoidant personality.

Both AA and IC helped him to become a changed man.
It can happen.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Hope2B
♀ Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 12:31 AM, January 16th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, njgal, for your response. Like your situation, the A ended when I found out. He had no intention of ending it at all, though he tried to throw me a bone and said he was "thinking of ending it." I called bullshit on that.

With my WH, he didn't have an issue with alcohol or toxic thinking, but he DID have issues with believing himself to be entitled to whatever he wanted. I have no idea how he got to that point, after 25 years of marriage. All I know is that he spent the next 7 being unfaithful and living a double life because I believed him (I had no reason to distrust him in the first 25 years of M) and never investigated. He efficiently compartmentalized his life with me, and his secret life was in a totally different compartment.

He continually faces the prospect of living alone as I go through this journey to decide if I want to have him stay or have him leave. If I kick him out, he knows he'd have to rent some cheap studio apartment in a slummy area of a neighboring town.

It's been a wake up call for him about all the things he would lose. I'm glad it scares him. Hopefully, it will scare him enough that he'll become, once again, a person of character and integrity, even though I won't trust ever again.

This was a man who also was very concrete and huge compartmentalizer. Someone who never allowed himself to really think deeply about things-an avoidant personality.
Everything was easy for my WH, everything was practically handed to him. He led a charmed and blessed life. His biggest challenge was finishing college before we married because I refused to write his papers for him--prior to our dating exclusively, his other girlfriend(s) would do this. He'd rather avoid talking with me about our sexual issues, and found it so much easier to have a LTA where *magically* he didn't have any issues (the hooker did know her job and did it quite well, and his backup was always the boner pills).

It's good to know a concrete thinker can become a changed man. He does tell me he doesn't like the person he became, but that's in retrospect, dealing with a major life change right up there in his face.

Thanks again for your helpful post.


Me: early 60s
Him: 64 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo

Posts: 262 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
sparkle09
♀ Member
Member # 41901
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, January 19th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS affair was on and off for over 2 and 1/2 years. He says he did not love but talked to her weekly and considered her a friend who would have sex with him. I feel like he is lying to me about the extent of his feelings for her. How is it possible to sleep with someone for that long and not have feelings?


Me-33
WS-34
1 year old sweet baby girl that is my world
Together 15 years Married 5 years
D-day #1 12/25/13 TT
D-day #2 1/3 admitted to 2 and 1/2 year affair with co worker
Not sure what I am doing just taking it day by day!

http://youtu.be


Posts: 91 | Registered: Jan 2014
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, January 19th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

integrity: interesting concept...i believe you either have it or you don't.....can you regain it...with work...yes

my ws never had any...so i don't believe he could ever have any....integrity is a concept, its a verb and unfortunately my ws does not possess any, never did....

sparkle:

feelings or lack thereof...i believe that we all possess a variety of feelings for different people.....as for having a feelings for an op...i would think that would depend on the relationship....my ws had 2 lta's simultaneously...one of them he loved and the other NOT.....

human beings have an amazing capacity to love, and we also have an amazing capacity NOT TO!!! we can love many people at the same time, in different ways...if you look at your friendships and "see" each one as it is...you will "see" that you feel differently about each one of them....whereas you may love all of your good friends....you may not love them the same...or rather you like some better then others...or even tolerate some less then others...we don't always like everyone at all times....

i know even my kids....i don't always like them all..i may love them all the same...but i don't necessarily like them all the same...and it changes daily right now because they are all young....but my friends...how i feel towards them is different...i don't love them all the same....as well as like them all the same....

not sure i am explaining myself right....another one of those cases where i see it in my head but cannot seem to get the right words out to convey my thoughts...


((((tribe))))

its waaay too quiet in here....where is everyone!! im hopin it means all is well with all


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sparkle - my X said the same things about OW. Yet, I know for a fact he said he loved her. (Course he said he didn't mean it.)

In any event - time reveals all. My X will now admit he did have "some kind" of emotional attachment to her. And that much has been evident by the fact that he has been unable to cut her out of his life.

Hi Miracle!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sparkle -

How is it possible to sleep with someone for that long and not have feelings?

I think it is sometimes common that a WS can have a LTA and not have feelings of love for the AP. LTA's are a different type of affair. As the BS in a LTA, we look at the length of the affair and think how is that possible. We have a hard time relating to that type of situation.

Look at it this way though - if he really did love this person, why did he not do something about it. Why did these feelings of love for this person not get to the point where he needed to D you to be with her more. I think sometimes they may even say "I love you" to each other but I don't know if they even mean it - it is just lies to continue the status quo. Maybe another way to look at it is to reverse the question. How is it possible to love someone for that long but not want it to become more than what it is - just sex?

My WW had a 12+ year LTA with OM1, it very much was a friends with benefits type of affair. She did not have overwhellming feelings of love for her AP. My WW's LTA started even before we were married, she had the opportunity to choose to marry OM1 instead if that is what she wanted. It took me awhile after DDay to realize this concept of the length of the affair does not mean real love was there.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sparkle, I agree with what RP said. Especially in a LTA I think there is NOT love as a healthy person would consider it (emotional as well as physical intimacy).

My FWW also told her APs that she loved them, but what she really meant was that she loved how SHE felt when with them. At least 2 of her APs expressed love for her, but when she broke it off with one to start with #2, or on dday when I outed #2, neither of them did anything that indicated they missed their "love".


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I have a problem that I am dealing with and I will try my best to explain it - sorry for the length to set it up.

My WW has a good friend that she has known for many years that lives in another state. I have only met them once about 10 years ago when she got married. Since then my WW has kept in touch with her and a couple years ago went out to visit them. This trip was prior to DDay for me. After DDay I suspected that something might have happened on this trip. I asked my WW a couple of times if something did happen but my WW said clearly that nothing happened every time I asked.

I really don't have much evidence, for the trip I noticed that my WW packed some sexy underwear and when she got back from the trip I just had a sense. Another piece of evidence that I have that is that awhile ago before DDay (I dont remember when) my WW left her phone in the bathroom and while in there I saw a text come through from her friend's H that was sexual in nature. I didnt look for more right then, I thought about it and later that night I decided I better look more and all texts from that person were deleted. My WW doesn't know that I saw that text - somehow I was able to deal with things after DDay well and I was really good about not revealing my sources for my evidence. This is the one thing that I have had that does not make sense still. My WW had admitted to so much more crazy stuff that I have thought I must have it all because why would she not admit to this one thing given everything else.

The problem that I have now is that her friend is planning a trip this summer to visit us. I sort of knew this would come up but have not been wanting to deal with it given other things have been going well. I know I need to address it. There are a few possibilities as I can see them -

1. She cheated with both of them - I am 99% certain that if something happened - both my WW's friend and her H participated based on what I know about my wife. The possibility that she cheated with her friends husband without her friend knowing is very, very not likely.

2. She only sent inappropriate texts back and forth but nothing happened on the trip. While my WW admitted to a lot, I can see it possible that since nothing happened she might withhold this info still.

3. The text that I saw was really from OM1 and she just hid his name and used this other guys name on her phone in case I saw a text come in from him she could better explain it. Remember prior to DDay I never knew OM1 existed, if I saw a text came in from this guy she would have to have an explanation of who this guy was. I actually have thought that this is the most likely case.

I need to think about how to ask without planting this idea that it was a text from OM1 as an answer. The trip is in the planning stage still but they likely would be staying for a week. If it was just a night or two I could get through it but I don't think I can get through a longer trip without this issue somehow being addressed. If it was really OM1 all along, these people are nice people from what I do know of them and certainly don't deserve me acting strange among them.

I know often the advise here is to trust your senses if you think something might be up but I was so blindsided by all of this after DDay I really feel like my senses prior to DDay were clearly not working. I haven't sensed anything after DDay and I think I am much more aware of things now than I was before.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
badmedicine
♀ Member
Member # 41692
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Love is a complicated word...a noun, a verb, an action and a feeling. I've thought about this a lot because my WH hardly EVER said it to me. Ever. I knew he was bad at expressing his emotions and then when things got confused (like RP it was during our engagement and he had the same opportunity to be with OW instead) I thought it was just stress and pressure. Little did I know...

On DDay there was a lot of pain when I read the message from OW to me outing the A, but one of the most painful things that was there was her talking about how often he said "I love you". That hurt like a bitch. He had probably said it to her more that month than he had to me in our entire relationship. He worked on this with IC and came up with "It was just a habit I fell into with her". Yeah, kind of like f*cking her was a habit? Anyway, I'm still not past it. He now says it to me often and that is bad, too.

My conclusions:
1. Did he love me during the A? I think NO since he was compartmentalizing and not acting in a loving way.

2. Did he love AP? I think NO since he didn't really understand love anyway, and he had opportunities to be with her in a real relationship and he didn't take them.

3. Does he love me now? To be determined. Better chance now than during the A, but I still think his head is screwed up.

4. Do I love him now? Another question mark here. I have worked hard the last few weeks to stop lovin him and to correct the mental mistake that I have these feelings.

I'd like to hear from successful R folks how their concept and feelings of love changed/evolved over time. And also from those who went through D....how long did it take for that feeling to go away??


"The wishbone will never replace the backbone." -Will Henry
"This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." -Dorothy Parker

Posts: 133 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RP, can you go back into the phone online records and look up the number attached to the message that arrived? With the friends being so far away, the area code and approximate date/timemay be enough to find it?

Is the friend's H number in her phone now?
If not now, it was probably not him then.

Can you see if she ever got texts from him prior to dday?

If you asks and she says that was how she hid OM's #, would you be OK with that answer or just assume she was using that as an excuse?

I would share your concern (of her making) with your W, even explaining that if she says "oh, that was just how I hid OM1's number" you have nagging doubts. She made the problem, let her fix it.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks ATS - I don't have phone records and now I dont even remember the month that I saw that text. However, the friends H is no longer in her phone so that is why I feel it was just a cover. If I could get my WW to tell me that it was a cover name for OM1 with out me planting the idea when asking I would be ok with it.

While I was told about OM1 that night of DDay, it took me another 6 weeks to actually get his name and get NC. I just saw that text briefly, I know what the first name was on it and I think I remembered the last name correctly but I sometimes question if I remember it right. Pre DDay I never even thought much about infidelity and was no where prepared to deal with these type of issues. If I was prepared - I would have grabbed that phone right then and there.

The first name for the text is the same name as my sons name - those 6 weeks of not knowing OM1 name were torture because I was becoming convinced that the reason it was so hard to get his name was that my WW named our son after him. I was thinking that I might have seen the last name wrong and that was OM1 first name on the text. It turns out that OM1 first name is something else but this is probably some background of why I struggle with the issue I think.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reunite-
I believe that as a BS trying to reconcile after discovering your WS was involved in a LTA you have a right to make demands. And whether the demand is justified or just a hunch it doesn't matter. If I had the gut feeling that you have about this woman then I would demand that my FWH not have anymore contact with her-ever.
We have cut off contact with many different friends. Some were co-workers and old friends that new the OW. Even though they did not know about the affair then..they know about it now and my FWH just doesn't feel comfortable around them because it reminds him of those toxic years....
we also have cut off contact with his old drinking buddies-now that he is sober.
We surround ourselves with people that are friends of our marriage.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, January 20th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy new year all.

ReunitePangea

I will tell you what I would do. NJgal are on the same page when we cross posted..

I am 99% certain that if something happened.
That is all I need. Your thoughts and feelings? Not safe and you control those. This is still a conflict because of her deletion.

I am sure you have been creating a loving, respectful, warm, friendly relationship with your wife. A must to this point. Good.

Now this won’t be easy, but it believes me or not you will come off as attractive to your wife. It may not seem like it at first.

You are going to raise her own awareness of how she is representing things in her mind.

Each sentence is very meaningful and don’t allow her to interrupt you. Soft loving tone.

“Honey, given all we have been through, I want you to understand something. I once saw a sexual content text in passing with friends H. Please, place yourself in my shoes, if you were in my shoes and happened to come across a text sent like that, you certainly would not want that person to come into our home. I don’t want this man or woman in my house. Our having them here on a visit will not bring us closer into a more loving, caring, trusting, marriage. So, in the interest of having a happy marriage, let's BOTH make sure we value the kinds of thoughts we have about each other.”

The let her react. Most important, do not debate, argue, do this in a rattled way. And just listen. Let her speak completely and let her explain or even try to tell you how you should feel. It does not matter. No more questions need to be ask. STAY away from any deep conversation. Once she is done, just be prepared to get up and slid your hand across her arm as you go fix dinner or do a chore.

Let her react. If she gets defensive, let her with out response. Then after some time, pay close attention to how she behaves.

Do you want a woman who will understand you need to feel safe? Her behavior will tell you how she really feels about you.

See, I will not be with a woman who does not make me feel safe. A woman not making me feel safe is not worthy of me.

And this is attitude I should have always had.

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:31 PM, January 20th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If it was just a night or two I could get through it but I don't think I can get through a longer trip without this issue somehow being addressed. If it was really OM1 all along, these people are nice people from what I do know of them and certainly don't deserve me acting strange among them.
Hey RP, your gut is usually right. If your WW is truly dedicated to R then she should give you ALL the information willingly. However my personal experience showed that they will tell you about what you know and anything from the past they think you don't know about is left out. This doesn't apply to a truly remorseful WS but some WS's never completely remove the mask they wear especially the LTA WS's.

IMO, just ask her what happenend between her and this couple. Tell her you expect her to be honest and you need the truth if you are to continue moving forward. Where there is smoke there is usually fire and the things that you described would also make me wonder.

I found out about my stbx's first affair over a month after Dday of the LTA. I kept asking her if there was anyone else and she kept denying it but I couldn't believe it. Something never sat right with me about a guy that I met that she gave her dog to years before. After Dday you start going over every detail of your M in your head and finding inconsistencies. I have an excellent memory so many of the puzzle pieces fit for me but a few didn't. Those stuck with me and I mulled over them and asked her about them over and over. EVERY SINGLE TIME it was something that she hadn't told me about. Usually I would have to go into detective mode on my own, find the proof, and put it in her face before she admitted it but I was always right. At some point I just stopped asking because it was obvious she wasn't going to ever come completely clean. Playing angry stressed out detective got old so I detached.

I got a bit off topic there but anytime I found an inconsistency I asked about it. All I wanted was the complete story so I didn't have to keep getting blindsided with TT. So just ask her, and let her know you need to know what happened because there are inconsistencies in her story. Don't give up your hand but keep asking until she explains it to your satisfaction. If she is truly in R and capable of R she will understand. You don't betray someone for YEARS and not realize there will be things to work through. My experience was if the story was to neat and clean it was a lie. They aren't evil masterminds and applying some basic logic to their stories is usually enough to shoot holes in it. Yes they may gas light but the sky is in fact blue no matter what they say.

As always my experience may not be yours so this was just my 2 cents.

its waaay too quiet in here....where is everyone!! im hopin it means all is well with all

Welcome to all the new people! There are some great people around here.

Hey IWAM, I am doing okay. I have been in a very good place for what seems like a very long time now. At least a few months with no dips in the coaster at all. I actually stress about normal things again like work . STBX and I coexist fairly well. She still looks for occasions to try to hoover me back into the friendzone but it has zero affect on me. Kids are doing fine, my sons behavior has leveled out. The IC seems to be really helping him. I am still not dating but that is by choice. I want to be officially D before I date again so I have a little over 5 months to go. I have made several new friends though and I do go out with a few female friends but it's all platonic. I am even sparking up conversations with complete strangers now and enjoying it. So for the most part I feel like I did prior to getting married. I actually feel like an optimist again.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you NJ, tryn & 7years -

And whether the demand is justified or just a hunch it doesn't matter.

NJ - you have good insight, I have been worrying about whether these people are guilty or innocent. It may very well not even matter, even if they are innocent, my WW choose to use his name still for her cover.

Let her react. If she gets defensive, let her with out response. Then after some time, pay close attention to how she behaves.

I am fairly certain her reaction to this will be defensive, the more I think about it the implications are huge for her. This is a long term friend of hers she would not let go of easily if I force the issue. Tryn you and I are a like when it comes to carefully rehearsing how we would approach a big conversation like this - I have done that all the time, make your point in the clearest calmest approach you can and then watch.

They aren't evil masterminds and applying some basic logic to their stories is usually enough to shoot holes in it.

I love that statement. Believe it or not but my WW is really not a good at lying, I feel like I can tell when she does. Now she was (is) extremely good at deception. She covered up things so well that I would never think to ask.

There is another item that I need to add to this conversation that I need to have with her - we hired one of her old boyfriends (I think he is based on a comment from someone else) to do some work but she never told me he was an old boyfriend. I know nothing more happened as he and the work was done in a different state, however if this person is an old boyfriend it is a slippery slope I should have been fully told about before hand.

I think one of our issues as we enter year two is that while we have done a lot of things right, there are some boundaries that when I was early in the process I did not set properly and make them clear to her. The things that I did make clear she actually has done an excellent job of doing still today. I have taken the time to understand these boundaries now with the benefit of SI but she hasn't put as much work in to understanding these slippery slopes. I feel like I watch her fish and she doesn't even know she is fishing - it is so easy to see how her affair happened.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reunite-
A remorseful WS should be willing to do anything and everything that it takes in order to save the marriage. Choosing a friend or acquaintance over the needs of the BS is not showing remorse and also does not show a true desire to reconcile.
Don't spend too much time choosing the perfect words- just tell her what's on your mind and what has been troubling you and...in no uncertain terms tell her what you need!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

badmedicine- the question .... "did the WS love the OW/OM"? is something that most of us here on the LTA forum have wrestled with.
I know that it took me a very long time to process this.
As a BS I had no experience with infidelity and I had many assumptions. For example- I assumed that if someone had an affair that meant that they loved the affair partner and wanted a divorce!
Imagine my shock and surprise when my FWH threw the OW under the bus immediately after d-day and broke off all contact with her. He also proclaimed that he never loved her and only loved me!
My reaction was shock and disbelief.
How could someone risk their marriage and cause so much pain if they did not care about the affair partner?
And... why would the affair have continued for so long if they did not love the affair partner? wasn't the length of the affair an example of how much they meant to each other?

well...it took me many hours of IC, MC, reading books and articles, discussing with my FWH, and reading tons of posts on SI to realize that everything that I thought I knew about LTAs was not necessarily true.

Over and over I read about men that claimed they loved their wives and did not love the AP.
Saying that the LTA had become a routine...something that they didn't know how to get out of. Exactly what my FWH said.

I began to realize what ats said in his post- the fact that they allowed it to go for so long...to just let it simmer rather than ratchet it up into a full fledged relationship shows that they never saw the AP as a life partner. This was not someone that they wanted to share their life with. They did not love the AP but they sure did like having the attention and ego boost on the side.

The main thing that I had to do was realize that the WS do not think like the BS do! We only have a romantic dating experience to compare it to....but a LTA is nothing like a dating situation.

hope this gives you some additional insights...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rp: all i could say is that i would prob have a hard time NOT saying anything if i were in "r".....i have never been the quiet type, always been somewhat outspoken which was prob a bit to my detriment....it meant that i did not allow myself the time to gather all info before confronting....which prob would have been more to my benefit...mostly because i would have been able to put more pieces together that when i would have finally confronted i would had more info and therefore hopefully i would have learned everything i still have yet to learn....

the only difference now is that it no longer matters...there will of course always be a part of me that wants all the answers...but because i am seeking "d", i no longer need them and its wonderful and freeing to feel like that


badmedicine....i am not in a position to answer your questions since i am not in "t"


7 years: HI there....it really is SOOO GOOOD to hear from you, most especially since you sound quite settled and actually happy...i am especially happy that your son is doin well with ic...looking forward to joining your status soon


(((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
badmedicine
♀ Member
Member # 41692
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, January 21st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJGal,

I think you are right. I also think it will take hours of IC for him to realize that what HE thought during the A wasn't true, either. However, the here and now is also an issue. I'm having so much trouble defining my feelings and I'm scared to try to understand his. Maybe I should have waited longer to file for D so I could have detached more and gotten past some of this love that I still feel? He seems to be making real progress in understanding his feelings and emotions and what led to him being able to do this. He is also saying that he wants to be married to me, to be happy together, and to do whatever it takes to help me recover. The thing is, he is only *doing* some of what I think would be needed. He comes up with excuses and stalls and just doesn't do the other things. Like he gave me a timeline but he didn't work really hard at figuring out dates or timing of other things. And he didn't want to write it out, he wanted to talk it out. I still made him write it, but it has a lot of holes. So, he did some work to delve back through his memory but he also didn't do exactly what I asked for no apparent reason. Just being difficult, or manipulative?? Who knows.

I feel schizophrenic in my posting, too. When I post in S/D, I feel pretty strong and resolved and when I waver I get 2x4s to remind me. When I post here I get more leniency since some of y'all have R'ed. I'm too scared to post in R because I don't want to lose myself. Basically, I'm a mess.

ETA: forgot to add that I think sometimes he was also letting our relationship "simmer". Not truly committed to it, but didn't want to leave it either. Yeah, he actually went through with it and married me but I never really felt married and he certainly didn't attach to me as his wife. So I guess I feel like I wasn't much different from AP in his mind, except that I caused him stress when she gave him free sex. Once she started causing him stress and the free sex went away (because it was long distance) he got very depressed and couldn't decide what he wanted.

[This message edited by badmedicine at 11:08 PM, January 21st (Tuesday)]


"The wishbone will never replace the backbone." -Will Henry
"This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it." -Dorothy Parker

Posts: 133 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: United States
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

badmedicine- in your case...where the affair started before the marriage and continued throughout it sounds as if your WH was never fully committed to either relationship.
As you say.... he kept both on 'simmer' not fully giving himself to either.
It sounds like he needs to do tons of work on himself to find out why he has such difficulty with commitment and intimacy.
The question is... should you wait around for him to have his epiphany?
You say he has done some of the things you need but not all...that he hasn't thrown himself fully into reconciling with you and saving the marriage.

It sounds like he is still very tentative about whether or not he wants a fully committed, mature relationship.

What do you want?
What kind of marriage do you want?
Do you believe that you deserve better?

You are still very very young. You have your whole life ahead of you and so many opportunities to meet new people.

Do you want to wait for someone who is not 100% 'in' ?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
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