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User Topic: Immature love vs mature love
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The longest journey in life is internal...it is between ones heart and ones mind.

I don't know how many times this past year my wife and I BOTH have expressed this distance within each other. Her mind telling her the A was wrong but her heart driving her to it. My heart screaming at me to STOP THE PAIN...my mind telling me not to as it tries to comprehend the trauma it just received.

Everything in life was not designed to be cerebrally driven, nor was it to be driven by our hearts....we were given both for a reason.

We are all born with the need to be loved and to express love.

I believe upon our birth we are of one mind and heart...though neither are mature, they start out side by side. Somewhere along the way of these maturing, the two get separated...enter FOO issues.


Walls are put up to protect the heart from some pain we are not mature enough to handle. Walls do their job, they keep the heart safe...but at the expense of separating it from the mind and keeping the heart from maturing as it should...as the mind IS developing.

Walls greatly reduce the hearts ability to mature as it keeps it penned in. Meanwhile the mind matures, feeling really good about itself, developing unhealthy pride, knowing the heart is a part of this, but is fine to leave it safely protected within the courtyard the walls have made around it. It figures it has this...don't need the heart anyway....I am the one in control…..look how well a defense mechanism I developed years ago is working!!!

And that is true...our minds are in control, we learn logical ways to deal with the world. Occasionally we think about the heart, but when we check in on it we still see its hurting, notice its lack of maturity, and leave it in its courtyard.

Meanwhile...the trauma the heart has experienced keeps it from peeking over the walls....it ignores its own hunger because if it pays attention to it it might be motivated to break down the walls....then it would get hurt again! NO WAY!

We meet our spouses. We feel that immature romantic love. We see qualities in them that we are missing and love the thought of instantly closing the gap between our mind and heart...our mind peeks in on our heart and sees it smiling....for the first time in a long time it is smiling!!!

It encourages us to propose and accept...we get married!

It is good for a while...heart is picnicking in its courtyard, brain is so pleased with itself that it has found the solution to the hearts pain while staying true to itself.

Then the romantic love starts to wear off...our connection is not as strong to our spouse as we thought it was...we check in on the heart and see it not quite so happy....we also notice the walls are still up! Dang...so much for feeling better without working at it.

Our immature heart makes a few feeble attempts to call out to the more mature mind, but it has no time for childishness....afterall, he did his part, its not his fault the heart decided to not mature with him. This response triggers the heart to go back to the state it was.

The mind feels a little bad about this so it starts to do things to try and help...activity based things...careers, debt management, children, flowers, date nights, nice vacations, even marriage retreats. The heart seems okay...joyful enough the mind guesses. The two have not rejoined each other...but neither recognizes the need to, nor wants to endure being vulnerable by really meeting up again.....they both remember what happened back in the days when they were side by side!

The heart slowly starves again...starts to even wonder if it was actually fed during the romantic love phase or if it just heard the party over the firm walls circling it....

Then something dreadful happens....a loaf of bread is tossed over the wall. The mind is blind to this activity because it is a safe distance from the heart. It assumes the heart is safe in its playpen and the mind can go about taking care of business unburdened by the childish heart.

The heart nibbles on it. This loaf of bread could be anything that draws the heart away from the M and the journey to the mind it shares a body with. This could be infidelity, alcohol, pornography, workaholism...anything that feeds the heart without the full consent of the mind.

At some point in time the heart has enough energy to act out.....it thrashes around in the courtyard....the mind suddenly hears the commotion, hurries to peak into the playpen...it is shocked to see the heart so ALIVE...the mind tries to calm it down....the heart is like a caged lion....scares the mind, which retreats and hides....the heart takes control.

It is no better at running a person through life as the mind was...but it is faster and more aggressive due to the decades of oppression.

The mind hides, the heart makes decisions blindly...walls are still up, but it is controlling the whole body now...its THEIR turn to run the show! Sight means nothing, logic has even less value then sight does...chaos ensues.


Is the deterioration of my marriage, your marriage, a result of intellectual failure or heart failure?

If love is a choice....where is that choice made? Sometime it has to be a joint venture, right?

Is mature love only possible when the heart and mind come together, or at least have some doors and windows in the wall between the two?

During the affair surely the intellectual mind is throwing flags like crazy...but the heart overrides it?

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:02 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To clarify, I believe FOO issues all have wall components to it.

I believe my porn use was a wall to preventing my heart to connect with my mind.....which kept me from connecting maturely to my wife.

We have to be healthy on our own before we can be healthy together. If ones mind and heart are not connected, not in a healthy way...is it insane to think we can truly connect with anyone else?

So don't construe the above long post as strictly condemning WS....it was very much generated from my own pain as I looked at my issues.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:05 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While this thought was a long time in the making for me, and it might appear to be well thought out....I am seriously looking for editors of this.

I have chased many rabbits before that turn out to be a waste of time...this could be yet another one.

Am I close to understanding myself and how my FOO issues have stopped my emotional growth?

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:06 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Vested interest here - I fell in love one day, and I still haven't lost or given that up. I don't see how my 'romantic love' is immature.

I warded off lurve throughout my teens and early 20s. I felt lust, of course. I saw friends get stupid and crazy over hormones. It was not for me.

For more than a year, I acted on the premise that what I felt for W2b was lust for her body, respect for her mind, and liking for her 'personality'. I was wrong - it was, in fact, love all along.

I think.

If my read is valid, I'm apparently in a small minority, but I bet I'm not alone.

(signed) sisoon, perhaps the exception that proves this rule...


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9773 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Sisoon....good comments as usual...you are my favorite SI member for a reason!

I, too, never acted upon my lustful nature in previous relationships other then the one with my wife. Partly because I was very shy, but partly because when I met my wife I felt different...felt like this was the one for me.

God help me...I still feel this way today, in spite of the pain she has caused me.

So I appreciate your input.

I think their is always a spot to act like a child...a youthful spirit. I like your point that romantic love should not disappear after a period of time. The notion that romantic love is a form of immature love is from several books I have read discussing the relationship life cycle...romantic being listed at the beginning of this cycle...thus my reference to it as immature. I see how it may not be...that it does not have to disappear.

The life cycle analogy set it up in my mind that one had to disappear before the other could appear.....caterpillar to butterfly analogy thing.

God be with us all.

p.s. I have used porn since puberty...so it is not like I had my lust really under control...just didn't act upon it enough to use women to satisfy it. But I think my porn use created a disconnect between my heart and mind....and between my wife and myself.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:20 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
GraceisGood
♀ Member
Member # 17686
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We see qualities in them that we are missing and love the thought of instantly closing the gap between our mind and heart...our mind peeks in on our heart and sees it smiling..

To ME immature love is the love that tries to make ME whole by filling the missing pieces of myself with someone else.

To ME mature love is the love that sees the wholes in my spouse and is willing to support and walk with them while they figure out how to fill those wholes the way THEY need. And they do the same for me.

Grace


We have a tendency to think the love offered us is a reflection of our worth and value.But in actuality,it's a reflection of the person that is giving it.We love out of who WE are-not because of who the receiver is.At least in terms of real love.TSMF

Posts: 3433 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: how far the east is from the west
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cool addition graceisgood! I like this thought a lot.....


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Ashland13
♀ Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, mature love is the one who is by your bedside when you're sick, doesn't care if your hair is messed and follows through on things they say they may do.

Immature love, for me, is based on physical things but no connection otherwise. This is where people stay together because it is momentarily "comfortable" and not being alone. Immature love is sometimes the early dating stages where there is no monetary or paper connection, the early dating phase.

Mature love is where you are together for years and still feel connected, feel excited when SO comes walking over and want to genuinely spend time with them.

Immature love is a roll in the hay and good night again, a living situation that's thought ok because there's no strings.

This thread is something I think about often and have felt that I should have been born in generations older than me, because my ideals are akin to older people many times, where XPerv is not that way...now.

When he was with me, he was very different and displayed this mature love-but he grew bored with it and with being responsible. So I think also that mature love knows no bounds and goes on forever.

And I do think it exists, but is not easy to find.


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess


Posts: 2134 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I like all of the thoughts here.

I have always been driven by my head, so when my husband told me that he was ruled by emotions during his A -- wasn't really thinking much at all -- I freaked out. Isn't that the Western romantic ideal? To fall head-over-heels, passionately "in love?"

But that isn't exactly what my H described. It was more like a "fix" or a drug, and if it were a song, it wouldn't be a happy, uplifting one. How did this thing ("falling in love") that women in particular are taught to value to highly, cause so much pain? Is "love" a misnomer in this situation?

We call it infatuation now - because it has nothing really to do with love. My H also called it "the trap" when he was in it. He didn't want to be without it, but it caused him so much pain. Not love.

But I like the idea that those of us who are head-driven might neglect the heart, and the heart subsequentially gets hungry and needy at certain points in life, particularly when it has been neglected. I see how I, inadvertently and with no ill intent, did that to my husband. He did it to me, as well.

We are learning.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 4:59 PM, October 20th (Sunday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
inconnu
♀ Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To ME immature love is the love that tries to make ME whole by filling the missing pieces of myself with someone else.

To ME mature love is the love that sees the wholes in my spouse and is willing to support and walk with them while they figure out how to fill those wholes the way THEY need. And they do the same for me.

Grace, this is fabulous. Thank you.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12124 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, Grace. Brilliant.


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9773 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
herongirl
♀ New Member
Member # 40398
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, October 20th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Blakesteele, your posts always give me lots of food for thought. I think, for mature love to exist, there has to be a solid connection between the head & heart, but both must also be strong. If the heart is tempted, a healthy head can override it. If the head becomes negative or critical, a healthy heart can neutralize this. The problems come when they are either walled off from each other, thus preventing one from being aware of what the other is doing, so full control can swing from one to the other; or one is too weak to effectively balance out the other, & is simply overridden by the other. There has to be a balance between the two. If that makes sense....
As I struggle to come through this nightmare experience of betrayal, I too hope to emerge as a better person. Following your personal journey has helped me in mine, as well. Thank you


Me- BS
D-day 1/21/13
Trying to reconcile

I can't make you happy, unless I am (Ziggy Marley-True to Myself)


Posts: 30 | Registered: Aug 2013
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, October 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((herongirl)))

I like your additon of adding strength and cooperation values to the heart and the mind.

This "equal partners" concept is a good one...done some reading on resentment and resentment occurs when an equality (percieved or real) issue arises.

I have learned my mind keys into concepts when I can visualize the conflict/problem/task. "Courtyards" "walking side by side" "heart starving" "caged lion"...all help me to own the situation...to see the interactions.

Immature love is a roll in the hay and good night again

If the heart is tempted, a healthy head can override it. If the head becomes negative or critical, a healthy heart can neutralize this.

are excellent additions to the story in my head...both help me "see" things that are not easily seen....helps me visualize this journey of our hearts and minds better.....helps mature my perspective.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:49 AM, October 21st (Monday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, October 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A lot of good stuff here, lots to think about. I sometimes think I got M because it was the next step, no real thought, just what we were supposed
to do. Good posts SIers, lots to ponder on from a lot of angles.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 4741 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Topic Posts: 14

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