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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: the hole
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:25 AM, October 21st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am trying to figure out what that hole is, the "bottomless pit" so to speak inside my soul. I think I have a guess: that hole is the discrepancy between my expectations about life and the reality about life. So it seems like the answer should be very simple, shouldn't it? Change my expectations, change the discrepancy, shrink the hole.

Maybe there were a lot of expectations I had and I still cling to some of them - rather than simple expectations, they became dreams. This is where acceptance steps in. Accept reality. Be willing to let go of the dreams, as well as the nightmares that are inaccurate.

What is reality? I'm still learning.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
purplejacket4
♀ Member
Member # 34262
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very thoughtful post.

I feel this way too. I think discontent comes from reality not meeting prior expectations. I don't think expectations should necessarily be "lowered" but maybe thought through with more care.

I know the reality of adulthood is not
what it was cracked up to be!

[This message edited by purplejacket4 at 12:52 AM, October 23rd (Wednesday)]


Me: BS 45
Her: fWS 48 (same sex partner)
Together: 18 years now (both MDs)
OW: meh so what 40s PhD
DD1: 10/30/11EA; DD2: 11/10/11 Had ONS; TT until 12/26/11; broke NC 6/12; NC again 7/12; R-ish

Posts: 2081 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Great Southwest
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silver,

What you posted was a big "why" of my 'hole' too. I've had unrealistic expectations my entire life. I was never able to be satisfied with things as they were. I was always searching for more, better, new. I thought that acquiring those would finally make me content.

In my particular case, my road to contentment does indeed require the lowering of expectations. I don't look for more from anyone than has already been shown. The only exception to that is myself---I don't think I'll ever stop requiring a strive toward excellence from myself.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, October 23rd (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think expectations should necessarily be "lowered" but maybe thought through with more care.

I like this. It involves thinking about whether they're realistic, or what is realistic, and where the expectations even come from.

I think a lot of my expectations come from my parents, from Disney (I'll explain that in a minute), and from my interactions with my parents and how things get twisted. I grew up with my godmother buying a ton of Disney films, most of which have the "warm and happy ending between two perfect people" etc etc. Some of the things she said and the way she saw her friends' marriages seemed to imply she thought that would happen to me too, because she said I was "beautiful" and compared herself unfavorably. It made me very uncomfortable. Shouldn't everyone have a happy ending? I thought. Somehow (still trying to figure out how), I'd thought that if not everyone got a happy ending, that it was unfair, that my godmother deserved one too, that I didn't like her emphasis on "do you know how beautiful you are?" When she ran her hands down my body when I was sixteen, it got worse. I began to hate being "beautiful" (according to her), and then some of my male friends confirmed that, by their standards, I wasn't anything noteworthy - I was the girl to talk to about other girls, not the one they wanted. That should have been a relief; maybe it meant she was wrong and I didn't have to live up to her expectations, maybe she would stop calling me beautiful. But I let myself adopt two very extreme perspectives: for the guys, I was sub-normal, and I really wanted to be "beautiful" so that I would feel "clean" and "normal" and not violated anymore. For predators like my godmother and others, I was "pretty" - so I "owed" them for their kindness - I hated them, and I was only allowed to stand up so far for myself. I began wanting validation from guys because I thought it would take away from some of the shame of my godmother and what she did. I felt and still feel deep disgust around being my gender. I'd love to be genderless! But I developed the hole during my teenage years by feeling like if I could be right for a guy to acknowledge me as a worthy lover, then it would mean I did what I was supposed to and my godmother would consider me "graduated" (of course, it doesn't work that way on either accounts - no such thing as a happy ending, and no such thing as a predator who lets you go. Stable reality and change are not dramatic - they're slow and steady and CONSISTENT). And that if the guys kept seeing me as sub-normal, then it would keep me in the dungeon with my godmother where I belonged, and maybe I was really her, because I repulsed people.

So because I had not changed the hole I'd been creating, I was perfect for my H when he came along (I'm still struggling with LETTING GO of a certain kind of validation from him). He could get away with saying and doing hurtful things because I wasn't strong enough to walk away. So he began to confirm for me that I was ugly, unworthy, sub-normal as a lover, by comparisons to past lovers, passing chicks, and OWs. I felt like I was the gross one. And when I cheated, that was what I was looking for from the OM - confirmation that abuse was what I deserved. I chose my physically, sexually, psychologically, and economically abusive ex. I was trying to make the hole bigger. Why would I do that? Did falling in the hole make me feel like suddenly I'd be invisible to my godmother's violations of my boundaries? Because the abuse from OM would be worse? Take my mind off all the other ways I was unworthy and just sink right to the bottom. No more expectations. Still wrapping my head around it. Trying to go to rock bottom was a very selfish way of trying to take a vacation.

Or maybe, with the extremes, there were two holes. That means double the work. Make black-and-white thinking into more reasonable shades of grey.

The hole is widened by bad habits. It has to be. If we repeat the mantras in our heads that validate the hole, whether the message is good or bad, then we add to the infection. That's why reality-testing is so important.

Reality: LOOKS DON'T MATTER. Do not validate either beauty or ugliness - both because it's unsafe to do so, and because they really don't matter. LOOKS DON'T MATTER.

Reality: MARRIED MEANS MARRIED. Among many parameters, the big ones are: you are to be faithful to the person you are in a relationship with, and you must treat that person as respectfully as possible. That's it. That's the core. Every other expectation, going either way, must be thought over more carefully.

Reality: ABUSE IS WRONG, AND I AM NOT MY GODMOTHER. I do not ever have to say yes or OK or I'm sorry. I can say no. That is a boundary. It is WRONG for her to overstep that boundary. No apology is needed for having a boundary that says no to abuse. My door has a "Do Not Disturb" sign on it for a reason!

Reality: I DO NOT NEED VALIDATION. I need a roadmap. Just an indicator that I am in the ballpark of 'healthy'. I might need to reality-test it until I'm sure we're safely there and can remember how to stay there. There are times when walls are useful.

Reality: Sometimes sleeping on it really helps. Clarity can come with actual rest and refresh.

I don't look for more from anyone than has already been shown.

That is so wise. Accepting people as they are, as part of reality.

The only exception to that is myself---I don't think I'll ever stop requiring a strive toward excellence from myself.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Stayingstrong15
New Member
Member # 41088
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From a bs. I believe high expectations get people into affairs. The bar is set so high that no person u marry can live up to it. I believe you have to allow the other person to be angry upset irrational in attractive Bc u would want someone to accept u good and bad also. I think people who have affairs don't allow this in the other person.

Posts: 17 | Registered: Oct 2013
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe high expectations get people into affairs. The bar is set so high that no person u marry can live up to it.

It's not always that expectations are too high - more that expectations are unrealistic. There are some WSs (like myself) whose expectations of themselves are so very low, and we choose to go out and self-destruct. That emphasizes even more how little the poor choices have to do with trying to actively compare or blame the BS. Not all of us were seeking "better". I doubt that makes any of the pain go away for the BS - it can't. Hopefully the BS can know that we were not expecting things of him/her that s/he was or wasn't providing; sometimes it has nothing to do with expectations about the BS or about the relationship. It was a deeper problem in us.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:55 PM, October 24th (Thursday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Truly
♀ Member
Member # 40715
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible that the hole and emptiness is related to disappointment?
Disappointment that as a person you have failed to fulfil the potential of becoming the person you wanted to be? Or thought you were?
Like you have let yourself down? Or damaged your own view of yourself?
My Great-Grandmother used to say that, "The only person you ever have to wake up with each day is yourself, I suggest that you make that person someone worth knowing."

So despite life never matching my expectations that only led to frustration, not a hole...

Sorry, BS here, I don't intend to be mean, it's just something I've wondered about too, I think my WH very much feels this as he was always a 'good guy' a 'hero'. He struggles with the new reality of HIMSELF.


There are dark shadows on the earth, but its lights are stronger in the contrast.
Charles Dickens


Posts: 257 | Registered: Sep 2013
Joanh
♀ Member
Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My Great-Grandmother used to say that, "The only person you ever have to wake up with each day is yourself, I suggest that you make that person someone worth knowing."

you have a very smart grandma, mine was too, and I sure wish she was here today .
The hole, is not believing in yourself, the hole is not believing your enough, so you keep trying to fill it with unrealistic dreams and wants in hoping something or someone can fill it, when I believe now I can only close the hole. my family and my Husband are the light that helps me snuff out the dark.
When I look at my childrens smiles when I see my husband smile, when I see my children copying something I have done, or have shown they have learnt a lesson about life and are so aware of themselves and others. This is how I fill my hole. I am succeeding I am a good person, and I can do good things. I can't change anyone, only me. THese things happening around me are real, not fantasy and I am a part of that. Hence my new reality and my hole is getting smaller each day. Just trying to kill the monster at the same time. SHe wants to keep that hole open.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 387 | Registered: Apr 2013
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, October 24th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible that the hole and emptiness is related to disappointment?
Disappointment that as a person you have failed to fulfil the potential of becoming the person you wanted to be? Or thought you were?
Like you have let yourself down?

That's exactly it.

The reason why I posted about the hole is because it's an ongoing battle for me. One of my expectations about life was that someday I would learn how and be healthy and normal. I wouldn't be sick forever.

That is not my reality. I am mentally ill. That is a permanent condition.

Some day it is easier to accept that reality than others. Within that, I can be mentally ill AND healthy as long as I am managing my symptoms continuously. There are some days where the symptoms are much worse. Today it's depression.

The hole might seem more visible on those days. But the hole does not shrink or grow overnight. It changes gradually. I need to be consistently healthy so the hole will consistently shrink. Who knows? Maybe the reality, as tied to my mental illness, is that the hole will never completely close.

Anyway, yes. I wanted to be healthy and normal. It feels sometimes like I have let myself down by not becoming that, or by not "getting over" my mental illness and getting miraculously better. But that's why expectations have to be realistic. Doesn't mean bad or good, just real.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Topic Posts: 9

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