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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-12
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Official, therapist supervised so-called Full Disclosure in progress.

Can anyone share their experience with this? My SAWH is extremely anxiety ridden preparing for this. He's put it off and put it off and now his CSAT is trying to light a fire under his ass to get going on it. Is this a fairly normal reaction to this process?

He kept saying "you know everything…there is nothing else to tell…" many times over the course of the last 7 months since I discovered the A. And then I would find out some new pretty significant piece of information such as a trip he took his AP on, alone, just the two of them vs. the group business trip she wasn't on at all and then admitted was a part of the group front he company that went and now says it was a romantic trip for just the two of them. And he did that with many other pieces of information - lies covering up lies. He's really sweating it out and uncomfortable doing this process. Obviously it makes me nervous about what I am going to learn.

Anyone else experience this? Anyone else able to share what it was like to go through this?


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jun 2013
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WIF,

We have never had a formal disclosure however, it's becoming very clear to me that recovery isn't possible without it. All I can relate to is my SAWH has told me over and over that I know everything.

Nope, There is sooooo much more that i still don't know and it eats at me every.single.day.


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 36 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
I'm not crazy I'm just a little unwell

Posts: 491 | Registered: Apr 2013
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WomanInFlux,

My X's "disclosure" letter wasn't done with a CSAT, and was basically a summary of things I had caught him doing or the teensy bit he'd already confessed, with some explanations thrown in of why it was my fault. It wasn't much use to me and since I knew it wasn't complete, it hurt.

That said, I have a few books that I started reading, "Surviving Disclosure: A Partner's Guide to Healing the Betrayal of Intimate Trust" by Jennifer Schneider, and "Intimate Treason: Healing the Trauma for Partners Confronting Sex Addiction", by Claudia Black. My CSAT also recommended Stephanie Carnes' "Facing Heartbreak: Steps to Recovery for Partners of Sex Addicts". I think all three are fairly new, and may be of help to you.

I'm sorry I don't have more experience to offer.

eta author's name

[This message edited by Compartmented at 8:19 PM, November 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 1047 | Registered: Aug 2010
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are going to have our disclosure in the beg. of December

I know there is some sort of written full disclosure and also an impact letter written by H from my perspective. Those are the core elements. H has offered to share with me his step one and some other writings he has done describing his fantasies and how they contaminated the rest of his life. I personally don't want to see any of that stuff.

He doesn't seem nervous about the process except the degree to which it may be upsetting for me. He said there is nothing new there that I don't already know. I don't think I am going to have a therapist there as the logistics are complicated-- but I think that is generally rec'd.

Also I am emailing this week to ask his therapist about her views of a post-disclosure polygraph. I am interested to hear what people here think about the post-disclosure polygraph. I generally think it has its place but in my own case I am reluctant for a variety of reasons. First, I think I have the truth -- there has been no trickle truth past the first couple of days after D-day, he voluntarily confessed the infidelity to me, he is actually not a great liar. Of course, it *is* possible, I just think it is relatively low risk to haul out and polygraph. Second, I am concerned the polygraph results are going to have ambiguities. Just from reading here it doesn't seem that it always, usually?? even, delivers the certainty that we are hoping for.


Posts: 209 | Registered: Apr 2013
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, November 5th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Disclosure. Hmm. BTDT, bought the tshirt.

Tried the informal one at home. Did all the things SI at large recommended. Also read all sorts of Jennifer Schneider things that were available at that time. Gave him plenty of time to prepare, had all my questions ready, did it in a loving, supportive environment.

And he lied. Massively. I would find out a month or so later about the piles of ED pills on my own. A year later that he couldn't live with holding back there was more. Then finding out on my own there was 10x more before we could have the formal disclosure. All severely traumatizing and no aid from IC/CSAT for me when it all happened.

Then there was the formal disclosure, where there was even more shit than I knew about. Had his and hers CSATs, I did an impact statement that makes anyone cry when they hear/read it. His reaction was underwhelming.

Then there was the polygraph. As required by CSATs at our SA center, to ensure the SA is truthful in disclosure and therapy. Because apparently a lot of these idiots lie lie lie and waste everyone's time. And SAWH was one of them. Failed across the board, massively, and reacted rather badly upon being informed about it. Super traumatic for me, but I had support this time from CSAT, group, 12 step, SI. I had one foot out the door, biding my time to get my ducks in a row. SAWH suddenly realized he was about to lose everything.

So we had Disclosure Part Two. Impact letter part two. His reaction was much better this time. Finally some real recovery was apparent.

Then we had poly part two. This time he passed all questions except the one about maintaining sobriety in the past six months, that was inconclusive. It is likely because he still doesn't understand what sobriety is, not because he hasn't actually been sober according to his CSAT. He is racked with guilt about slippery slope behaviors when they occur, whether on purpose or by accident. But given his track record I can't be 100% sure, can I? So now his therapy work includes understanding this better.

Poly part 3 will be in Jan/Feb. If he continues his group/IC work, 12 step, etc and makes the progress he has been making, he will likely pass. I have all my ducks in a row now if he doesn't.

Do I think disclosure should be mediated by both CSATs, yes. You need support for YOU, and you need a third party advocate watching and listening for the stuff you don't catch during that stressful time. You need them there to keep things civil and on track. You need them there in case you implode/explode from being told things you could never imagine. You need them there so they can continue your therapy afterward so you can make progress. Doing it yourself is frankly a waste of time.

As for polygraphs, I probably would not have pursued it on my own because they are uber expensive and not always reliable (due to the person giving the test mostly, and because sociopaths probably can pass them anyway). But the center required it, and they use a guy who spent decades doing them for sexual deviants for the county/state before doing it for them for more than ten years. I have absolute faith in the guy, IDK that I would with anyone I pulled out of the yellow pages. Had I not pursued this, I would have not known he did lie in his disclosure and was not being entirely truthful in therapy. I see why centers that have been doing this for a long time require them. I am pissed I have to pay for three before I can feel at ease one way or another.

So yeah, BTDT. Not a sunshine and roses story for sure. FWIW I know some people who have had much more positive experiences than mine, LOL. But I think they all would agree with me, have both CSATs there and follow up with a reputable, competent poly person that has specific experience with verifying SA disclosure results. YMMV.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to everyone for all of the feedback. We are planning to do this in his CSAT's office and have our MC (who has training in this area but is not a CSAT) present. MC has seen me a lot on my own, and knows about my triggers/concerns/history and about his pattern of lying. I see my IC later this week so I will mention to her and see if there is anything else to watch out for.

My hope is that with all of the therapy he's received (3 hours/week for the last four months, and in the last 2.5 months he now has a 1.5 h long SLAA meeting thrown in once/week) he's ready to be honest and sees the value of being honest with me vs. lying to cover up a lie or not come clean with the entire story when I DO find out something (and eventually, the truth comes out). Lots at stake. I have to think about what my boundaries are on this. I know that a lot of addicts in general can't remember things from the time they were "using" but things like a trip to Europe with the paramour…come on! He remembers that…he was not drunk or high from dopamine the entire time he was gone for 4 days on that trip. He deliberately concealed the truth because he did not want to deal with the fallout. Stuff like this, coupled with the fact that he has been dragging his feet about this disclosure, make me very nervous. My hunch is that the two of them got together around May or June of 2010, not August like he has maintained. August may have been the first time they had sex, but they were pursuing one another before that is my guess. He has denied it and when I have pushed on him to discuss fully, he says he wasn't a monster, wasn't premeditated about this. I don't think it is asking too much to have the exact timeline. It happened around 3 years ago…I'm not asking him to recall some obscure event from 25 years ago. I'm asking him to provide a timeline of his relationship with a single person. My guess on why this is the case is that he developed what he thought were feelings for her and he's afraid of going back there even though now he realizes the relationship was a total sham/fantasy.

I also suspect he doesn't want to discuss his porn addiction, strip clubs, etc. since we've been together. The affair, his fantasy driven behavior surrounding the affair and so forth has been his major area of focus in his therapy thus far.

Well...I guess I have a topic of discussion for my IC session tomorrow.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jun 2013
jzkc1502
Member
Member # 40496
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just got back from an out of town trip with my husband, ugh.

Long story but there were a few bumps while we were out that brought up some past feelings.

I'm not trying to sound dumb but just something I've been wrestling with, if it comes to the point where I want a D (I'm on the fence right now) do you think I am still validated being that at this point there is no proof of a PA, just the texting/calling escorts and strip clubs? Everytime I get to the point where I'm like "no, I'm done I've had it" I get drawn back in with telling myself "well....it was just texting and calling".


Me: BS 29
Him: WH 28
Together: 9 years, married 3
DDay: August 2010
OW: Escorts/Craigslist (escorts and strip club on our honeymoon!)
Status: Divorcing

Posts: 135 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: NJ
SpaceJane
♀ Member
Member # 40303
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jzkc - my WH also comes from the escort/craigslist world, and I don't know, but are you sure that there was no physical contact?
My husband swore to me, looking at me in the eye, with such conviction, that he NEVER had sex with anyone else, that he just got hand jobs at the massage parlors he frequented ughhh And I believed him.
You don't just text or call for the thrill or to see what the other person says. I don't know, my two cents :/
I'm sorry you are in this predicament, but I would look hard if I were you. I can't give you much advice in the divorce issue but just to not expect that it was just texting and calling with no physical contact. It is possible, but highly unlikely. :(


Me BS: 29
SAWH: 29
M: 3yrs ; T: 12yrs
DDay1: 8/11/13 confessed to tip of the iceberg.
DDay2: 8/26/13 Found secret email, 7 yrs of CL casual encounters, dating websites, massage parlors, etc.

Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2013
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, November 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you want a divorce, get a divorce, as my lawyer would say. You can't have a marriage where you feel like something is being hidden and you are constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. If I can only learn one thing from this horrible experience it is "trust your gut." If you think there is something he's hiding you are probably right.

I know I should have listened to my gut all along. And after DD, when there was something fishy, I knew he was lying to cover up another lie.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jun 2013
jzkc1502
Member
Member # 40496
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SpaceJane- yea at this time I tell myself I really want to believe it was only calls/texts but you're right, the likelihood of it ONLY being that is rare...while possible I have to admit that it is rare. How I can trust his "no it was never PA"now while he denied SO much, almost EVERYTHING around DDay is so hard. Its like for example, when I found out he went to a strip club on our honeymoon and took out $$ from an ATM he firs said "oh yea, I wanted cash for the trip home". But then it turned into "ok I used the money to buy a drink there." Keep in mind, he rarely drinks. So I'm supposed to believe he trekked his ass all the way to a strip club leaving me on the beach to only use $ on a drink?? rightttttt. He'll only admit to as much that he conceivably believes is bad not not thaaaaaat bad.


Me: BS 29
Him: WH 28
Together: 9 years, married 3
DDay: August 2010
OW: Escorts/Craigslist (escorts and strip club on our honeymoon!)
Status: Divorcing

Posts: 135 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: NJ
putonahappyface
♀ Member
Member # 30269
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

We have our formal disclosure with my SA's CSAT at 1p today! Like several of you mentioned, my SA states that there is nothing that I don't already know. It's still nerve-wracking though, especially since I've never met his CSAT. I'm going alone, because I never really did IC, just this site & my awesome s-anon group.

My SA went "all in" with his recovery; he'll be 365 days sober on 11/15. Other than my still mia sex drive, we've been doing really well, so I dread re-hashing all this shit again! I know he's divided it into 3 sections: AP #1, AP #2 & the porn. I'll report back on how it goes. Would appreciate any available prayers...thanks ladies!


BS (me) - 49; SAWH- 50 (hurtherbadly)
Married 26 yrs
2 DS - 20 &16
Dday 6/4/2010. 2 EA/PA
11/15/12 update: found lots of porn on phone: SA discovery


Posts: 708 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Bluegrass
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy, Jane, prayers sent... and just for informational purposes, I do know two recovering SAs who acted out with online porn and didn't take it anywhere else. Both were extremely shy and introverted men, and the isolation and anonymous nature of the internet was perfect for them. It does not minimize the trauma felt by the wives. They were neglected, forgotten and ignored in favor of virtual, sexual images. I don't think their recovery was easier or harder than others.
I hate pornography for many reasons and fear it's easy access by young kids. It's NOT our father's Playboy.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2895 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

happyface - sorry for the late reply, but prayers were coming your way earlier today and still are! In my SA spouse group, one of the women sits outside in the parking lot and prays THE ENTIRE TIME when one of our ladies is getting disclosure. So amazing! Many prayers coming your way and I wish I could have been in the parking lot praying for you! Let us know how it goes.

((((((((happyface))))))


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
putonahappyface
♀ Member
Member # 30269
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the prayers. I've been on a kiddie-ride roller coaster since the disclosure. Nothing like dday, or last Nov with the porn addiction discovery, but there were 2 things I didn't know & I'm not quite sure how to feel about them.

They both pertain to the main former co-worker AP. she gave him a secret cell phone which he had for 2 months. He lied about this when I had asked about it 3 1/2 years ago. I'm not sure why an old lie still has the power to hurt, but somehow it does. His SA group actually told him not to include that info, but he didn't want to leave anything at all out. The other thing was that the month after he ended the affair (& trashed that phone), she texted him to say she'd gotten a DUI & was in jail. Yes, she was a train wreck. And like an idiot, he went down there to rescue her! Turns out her parents had paid bail, so OUR $500 was safe.

I guess it just resurrected some of those feelings of disappointment & hurt, because he's so far removed now from the man who would have ever done these things, that sometimes I still can't believe it. Reading through it all again was hard, but honestly, I think it was harder for him. I think we needed this for closure & to move forward, but I wish there truly had been NO new details. I guess I should be thankful there was no acting out behavior I wasn't aware of, no other women, etc. I guess I just need to process the info & move forward.

What do you all think - would that bother you? He keeps asking me if I'm okay, so I know he's worried about me.. I was calm, I didn't cry...I just have to process. Gah - hate all this! Peace & hugs.

[This message edited by putonahappyface at 10:17 PM, November 8th (Friday)]


BS (me) - 49; SAWH- 50 (hurtherbadly)
Married 26 yrs
2 DS - 20 &16
Dday 6/4/2010. 2 EA/PA
11/15/12 update: found lots of porn on phone: SA discovery


Posts: 708 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Bluegrass
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, November 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, honey...I think ANY new information is heartbreaking. While maybe it could have been "worse" the fact that he had another secret with her, is another betrayal of the bond that should have been with you.
Do something nice for you today...


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2895 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
jzkc1502
Member
Member # 40496
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I was on the computer just now on my husbands account and looking through the recycle bin and going through everything I found 4 photos, basically all 4 were him in his underwear from his torso down, closeup to show it was clear and very visible that he was hard. I noticed the 4 photos were taken on a Saturday at 7:30am on a weekend I was out of town working. I;m not sure what to think, but I have a bad gut feeling. I don't like pics like that so I know w/ 100% certainty they were not intended for me, plus he never sent them to me. Is this something guys do? What do you think is up? I'm freaking out.


Me: BS 29
Him: WH 28
Together: 9 years, married 3
DDay: August 2010
OW: Escorts/Craigslist (escorts and strip club on our honeymoon!)
Status: Divorcing

Posts: 135 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: NJ
putonahappyface
♀ Member
Member # 30269
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No - this isn't something guys do...unless they're on Craigslist, etc. It's very much a Craigslist guy thing to do, sadly. I'm sorry. Have you been on Craigslist in your area to see if anything matches that photo or looks like him? I don't have experience with this, but some people have been able to find their WH on there.

Hugs & prayers.


BS (me) - 49; SAWH- 50 (hurtherbadly)
Married 26 yrs
2 DS - 20 &16
Dday 6/4/2010. 2 EA/PA
11/15/12 update: found lots of porn on phone: SA discovery


Posts: 708 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Bluegrass
jzkc1502
Member
Member # 40496
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did browse CL (yuck) and never found anything...however I'm just finding these pics now from the summer...I assume he'd have enough sense to delete things between then and now since we are going to MC and he knows I'm on the fence about D. But you're right, that's what the pics remind me of.


Me: BS 29
Him: WH 28
Together: 9 years, married 3
DDay: August 2010
OW: Escorts/Craigslist (escorts and strip club on our honeymoon!)
Status: Divorcing

Posts: 135 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: NJ
SpaceJane
♀ Member
Member # 40303
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Happyface)))))) I'm sorry you had to find new details and you are now going through emotions again. I guess try to concentrate on the positive, look at the silver lining in things. No new information on acting out behaviors is a huge plus, and most importantly, the fact that you have a new man who is so far from the man who deeply hurt you before. I hope to one day be able to write that as well.

Jzkc- no guys don't do that, but like happyface said, this is something craigslist guys do. I'm so sorry. I also had to see pictures of my husband lower torso without underwear mind you. I didn't find them on craigslist but I found them on the email correspondences he shared with Craigslist people. He never posted it on the post itself but after he established communication with them. It reall sucks and it's so hurtful. Have you gotten tested for STDs? If not please do so. Take care of yourself.


Me BS: 29
SAWH: 29
M: 3yrs ; T: 12yrs
DDay1: 8/11/13 confessed to tip of the iceberg.
DDay2: 8/26/13 Found secret email, 7 yrs of CL casual encounters, dating websites, massage parlors, etc.

Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2013
SpaceJane
♀ Member
Member # 40303
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found this I don't know if on Facebook or Instagram but I found it so nice, and I immediately thought of all of us here, and wanted to share it with you all.

"When something bad happens, you have three choices. You can either let it define you, let it destroy you, or you can let it strengthen you".

Sending you all hugs and strength and hoping this is a good week, or at least better, for most of us. As for me, H is out of town for the week for his new job, and I hate it. I hate that he takes business trips :( and I hate that I stress so much about it.

(((((((SA Spouses)))))))


Me BS: 29
SAWH: 29
M: 3yrs ; T: 12yrs
DDay1: 8/11/13 confessed to tip of the iceberg.
DDay2: 8/26/13 Found secret email, 7 yrs of CL casual encounters, dating websites, massage parlors, etc.

Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2013
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