I'm not one to believe in the theory that we pick our mates in order to fix childhood trauma. But I think sometimes there can be an element of truth to it, especially if, as you describe, your father was inappropriately sexual in your presence. Even if it wasn't directed at you.
Bears looking at, for sure.
After he had eaten, he asked me if he could borrow some more money.
And this is what I did: I put on my coat and said I had to go to the store. Which I did.
I think this is actually the first time when he's asked me for money and I gave him absolutely nothing and, instead of sitting down to talk, simply left.
Can I have a round of applause?
Is he acting out now? Is he committed to recovery? Is he doing every single thing he could be doing to take those steps forward? Is he consistent?Those are questions you have to ask yourself.
New posters, I am sorry I have been offline as well with holidays and vacation but wishing you much strength!
As for me, I am considering not vacationing with H and not celebrating holidays with his family for a year or two (or just one night with his family rather than extended trip). It has turned out that both of these, which I used to enjoy, are big triggers for me and just so sad and stressful. It does not help that we have had a major setback. It wasn't anything with porn, sex, etc but rather a big act of selfishness and poor planning which landed so much work and stress on me, words cannot describe. Basically same pre-recovery behavior of overscheduling, refusing to take adequate time off of work for big life events, and dumping everything on me. This all occurred at a time when I am having other health problems and am under a strict medical management regime so it was even more egregious and could have resulted in problems for me medically. To be fair, he has been very generous and un-selfish with child care etc but I would like to spend time with the kids, not just doing endless planning, cooking, cleaning, organizing.
His IC told him he was done with IC, well-established in recovery and she more or less discharged him to marital therapy (though he is going back to her to discuss his selfishness that is a condition of him staying in the house). If this is recovery well it is pretty da*n underwhelming. I have higher expectations than just no porn. I want a real partner and if MC does not get us there in the next year then I am cannot stay. What a frightening mess. :(
As I read your post, my eyes opened and my mouth dropped. My WS also had a major problem always with overscheduling, "trying to stuff 10 lbs of stuff in a 9-lb bag" as I always told him. I didn't realize this was a characteristic of SA's! I should have known. He scheduled himself for work the same day he was having his wisdom teeth out! And although he didn't make it, he DID force himself to work the next day 'because I scheduled it.'
An update on my update: last night WS came over again. I was waiting for him to raise the subject of $$$, and he finally did. He asked me if, the day before, I had forgotten to give him anything -- or if I omitted giving him the money on purpose.
I replied that I had actually forgotten, but afterwards I was glad because I realized that I could not be loaning him money forever. He grunted and I said to him, "Think about it. Would YOU loan money to you?"
Oy, CDS. BTDT. That is part of the self-absorbed behaviors that got them into the addiction in the first place. Circles behaviors, whatever. That will be an ongoing thing, hopefully less frequent as he progresses. I still do that dance with SAWH every so often. But at least I am seeing huge improvement there.
I am surprised and a bit skeptical of your SA being "released" from therapy so soon. IDK, because obviously my SAWH has never been as devoted to the program as I think he should be so my POV is skewed that way. See, for me since accountability is such a huge issue with addicts, why in the world would you stop going to therapy? I can see going less frequently, or trading it for MC, etc but why stop? It seems you would be setting yourself up for failure. Again, IDK, because my sitch is different, the therapy here is probably different, etc.
And yeah I totally identify with your holiday plan. One of the best things about moving 1000 miles away from family right before DD is not having to deal with that. It is logistically and financially nearly impossible for us to visit them or them visit us over the holidays. I never realized how much FOO issues on both sides impacts things at holiday time until it was removed. I actually fully enjoyed Xmas this year for a change.
Short story (you can read my profile and other posts, although some of what I'm about to type doesn't exist anywhere but here.)
Caught him 24 hours after he had ONS with a prostitute he found on CL. (8.10.2013). If was a forced confession. I found makeup/cum on the hotel sheets, then arranging emails on his laptop, only once I found the emails did he confess.
Swore that was it, no other infractions. Never did it before. We started MC within a month and I started IC (he saw IC once, never went back)
I continued to dig into his digital trail and mapped out every time he had been out of town. Determined it was not a 'single' infraction. He refuses to admit, but I have proof.
What makes me wonder if he is SA?
We spent years (4-5) of our M, with no sex life. I wanted sex, asked for sex, got denied often. I would discuss, ask why, he made excuses…work, stress, tired, whatever. I'm 15 years younger, so admittedly my 'drive' may be higher, but we were only having sex every 6-7 weeks maybe. But during this time I would wake at night to find the TV on 'skinamax', volume on mute, porn playing and him masturbating. In the bed, while I was inches away. This happened regularly. I wasn't brave enough to roll over and 'join' him, or say something, or confront him. All I could do was lay there in silence as tears rolled down my face. Praying he wouldn't notice I was awake.
I had to have surgery, 12 hours from home, he was the only one with me. While I lay in the hospital recovering overnight. He was at the hotel charging porn to the room, which was billed to my credit card. I didn't say anything then either.
We have a few sex toys, rarely got used. Except by me, because I was so sexually frustrated. I was very straight with him about my needs and that I would sometimes use them alone to try and meet my own needs. He wasn't moved by it at all, didn't really care I guess. But every time I was out of town, even if it was just for the day, I would come home and the toys were out of place. I'd find them under the bed, in his nightstand, just weird places. I'm picky about their location (we have kids) & know where they are, where they go, etc. I guess he would get them out and use them when I was gone. Yet when I would ask him if he masturbates, or if he thinks of me when he does, he would flat out deny that he ever masturbates. Swore he never does it, ever. Never! I don't know if I think he was using the toys with someone else while I was gone, or using them alone. (they're specifically for pleasing a woman, but whatever.) But to deny that he masturbates, weird! Even after I was honest about my own pleasure. Why?
And then one day when we were on a 10 hour road trip together back in April of 2013, our sex life just changed. Literally like a flash of lightening! He pulled over on a country road and we had sex, then we did it 2 more times before the day was over, then twice again the next day. And it's been pretty much like that until Dday in August.
No explanation for the change, I didn't really question, I have to admit I liked the change, I didn't want it to go back like it was before. But I was skeptical as to why, so quickly and so dramatically it changed.
That's a lot of info for a 'short story' Sorry! I could write a book at this point, I'm guessing we all could!
Are these things SA? I don't know the prostitute body count yet, not sure I ever will. The digital trail is too dead after all these years, & he's too buried in 'nice-ing' his way out of this & avoiding any transparency. Even though he's sleeping in the guest room & quite possibly will be kicked out of the house all together.
It wasn't until a few months after I caught him in a 2.5 year long, once a week affair with the same woman (even his affair was more or less ritualized!) that he considered that he might be a SA. At first he said his psychiatrist did not think he was mentally ill or that anything was wrong with him. Slowly, when things were not getting better between us after the affair really ended (2 months after being caught), he admitted that porn was probably a problem and that his relationship with the AP was like an addiction. It had nothing to do with my appearance or anything else other than his poor coping skills stemming from events that happened in his childhood…long before I ever knew him.
My WH is a love addict which means he gets a high off of fantasizing about the sex and preparing for the act more so than the actual sex itself. SAs are generally very meticulous about their appearance and ritualized about that as well.
Could the sudden turn around in your sex life from April - August 2013 be attributed to him acting out fantasy?
He's always been good about prioritizing my pleasure (most of the time). But so much so, that actual intercourse would only last a couple of minutes. I think he gets off by watching a woman get off, less than actual act of sex. (I hadn't really thought about it until I read your comment). He swore he didn't have intercourse with the hooker. And I'm inclined to believe him, because he'd rather watch her writhe around, than bang her. (He admitted to giving oral & receiving a hj).
I just don't know what 'flipped' his switch in April? Some fantasy he wanted to act out?
I don't understand it all.
I can tell you my experience, but I don't want to say that this may be happening in your case. Just something to be watching for. This is more of a general warning to everyone, not to you in particular.
I was confused in the beginning why I didn't have the sexless or sexually frustrating M that so many spouses of SAs have. He seemed to be doing all his activities on top of having regular sex with me. But then that changed a while after DD, after I found out about the boner pills. I stumbled on about $1000 worth of orders over the course of a year. And then a year later, at our "full disclosure", he confessed to many more purchases overseas where he could procure large amounts of them for a fraction of the cost here.
He wasn't just using them to have sex with me. He would cut them and use them to MB, because as it has been said when the brain circuits get fried with excessive porn use (and other acting out) they can't get aroused as easily. He was using them with the hookers.
How did I find out? I went through his briefcase and they were hidden in a bottle of diabetes medicine. After I searched his desk, I found a fedex mailer with a flat blister pack of pills in it. And a pill cutter. Hidden back behind a stack of books. These are not places you would expect to find these kinds of things. I checked the credit card receipts when doing discovery for the post nup, and he put one purchase on four different cards over the course of a year, cards in his name, so I would not be likely to find it. I hacked into the account he had at the provider, and found his order history. But the international purchase angle, I would have never found out on my own. If he had paid with a prepaid credit card, or paid cash at a pharmacy, I probably would have never known.
Again, not saying this is happening to you specifically. Just a warning for all of you, because I am not alone in this experience.
The thing is, it didn't. It just prolonged the pain. And you are in a vulnerable position. Young kids. Did I read that you are currently pregnant?
IMHO, you need to find out what's going on asap, and kick him to the curb if he's an active SA, or even if he "just" actively compulsive sexually. No way would I stay with someone who is either, and NEVER allow my lids to be raised in a home with an active addict of any kind. The trauma is too great.
I can identify with your reluctance to install the spyware, when I finally caved and did it, I was physically sick after.
But now I know what I am dealing with. I knew before I guess, but it served, for me, as a pivotal moment when I could start making decisions on bare facts, rather than TT and suspicions. My SAWH is aware now that the software is there and it's given me some important breathing space where I'm not constantly wondering what/who he's doing, to be objective.
Living with an SA in denial is draining though and, especially if you're pregnant, you need to look after yourself and your children first and foremost. If that means walking away, then do it. Life is way too short to waste your time (when you should be enjoying being a mum, if nothing else) continually waiting for the other shoe to drop.
[This message edited by Sparkle0504 at 8:30 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]
You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think (A A Milne)
I have completely copied WH's entire hard drive and taken it to a 3rd party to have it investigated. I just got a message that I will have "an extensive report" back tomorrow and he thinks he's found what I was looking for. I have to say I was hoping he'd say he found nothing!
I hacked into WH's online credit card account (the one he has the statements delivered to his office rather than our house!!). Already discovered he paid for 8 months of online porn. Stops to an 'adult shop' that is also a middle man for a bunch of 'strippers'. And I just started digging. And it's just one of 4 credit cards.
And the hard drive info, it's just one computer. He got that laptop a couple of years ago, so if I dug his old one out and had it looked at, Lord knows what's on it. If I had access to his work PC.... I can't imagine. And his iPhone, if the flash memory wasn't so short lived, that's probably where most of the evidence is!
It's going to be a come to Jesus meeting this weekend. Either he comes clean or gets out!
FoggedIn - I hope for your sake what he's found is all old history. Let us know tomorrow what you find out and I will be praying for you.
If anyone knows how to jailbreak and iphone or obtain a gmail password, would love some tips. :-)
[This message edited by Anyone13 at 2:11 PM, January 9th (Thursday)]