I knew her H and I've wondered if he knew. He moved away and I have never felt compelled to tell him because I don't think the A had anything to do with the divorce.
Each day I think it's fine if you don't tell at this time. I also am sorry that you are having to deal with so much pain over your H's feelings. Is it at all possible that your imagination is worse than the truth?
[This message edited by catlover50 at 2:23 PM, October 25th (Friday)]
[This message edited by catlover50 at 2:21 PM, October 25th (Friday)]
Please stick to the Reconciliation Forum guidelines.
A wonderful place to share your struggles, success stories and triggers while trying to reconcile.It's a long road, but you can do it! There is to be no venting about or name calling the OP in this forum.
I can believe that they had a ridiculous fake love all I want, but it's my fWH's thoughts about that love that matter to me now.
But with time and distance, as your husband's remorse grows and your R (hopefully) proceeds then his feelings will more than likely change as his perceptions of the reality of the past and OW herself change.
If those perceptions don't change for him, then it is you who will have a decision to make for yourself - whether you are prepared to live with a man who can't tell the difference between the 'real' love that you are showing him right now as you try to recover your marriage with him and the shallow love of rainbows and unicorns that he undoubtedly shared with the OW in affair land.
If he can still 'love' a woman who was prepared to destroy the life of you, his wife, and his children's nuclear family, a woman who is a liar and cheater (and she is a liar and cheater in the present tense if she still has not revealed the affair to her ex husband) then what does that really say about him? Is that someone that you would want longterm - after you provingyour own love for him by giving him the chance of Reconcilliation after he betrayed you?
This 'love' he shared with OW was a love that never had to deal with the mundane minutia of everyday life. The pressures of being pressed for money, pressed for time to connect with each other, stressed out by jobs, etc., She was someone that he could run to, to escape his everyday problems and stresses not struggle through them with her. He has no idea if it would have lasted long-term once the butterflies left and the mundane set in. How could he possibly be sure of the genuineness of a love that was never tested by real life?
How could he compare that with the real love that you are showing him in trying to R with him? ...and if he could - is that someone that you would want? When your gift of R counts for no more than OW's "There, there, I think you're pretty great" to him? When he can love someone that hurt you so bad?
See that's the thing. When (or if) true remorse in the deepest sense of it hits him - how could he continue to feel 'love' or even respect for someone that helped him to hurt you (and himself) so badly? Yes, I do think that given time his perspective about their 'love' will change. It was all built between two people behaving at their absolute worst. Nothing gentle or kind about that.
We have been advised by books (from this site's healing library and IC and MC) that the BS asking about that 'love' is generally not a good idea. They say that it sets up the BS for pain, and the WS to either inflict that pain or lie - because the FEELINGS they had may have been real and may be something the fWS will deal with for the rest of their lives. Yet I hear the opposite on this forum a lot; like the only way to fully R is for the WS to see that love as fake too.
I think you probably get a different perspective on this forum because I'm not sure there are many people here who would be prepared to consider themselves R'd with a spouse who spends the rest of his life struggling with his feelings of true love for the other woman.
There was actually an excellent post on the Wayward forum several months ago by one of our own amazing WW's (Aubrie I think it was) that I really wish I could find as I think it could really help you and your husband in dealing with this. It was called something like 'If you love two people choose the second one' (or something like that) but it was actually all about refuting that statement and dealt with what 'real' love really is. It was an amazing read - but I think it's now dropped off the site sadly.
Love, real love, is reality, not unicorn skittle poops.
Always, tell the other BS! Always!
"It's hard to be in love when you can't tell lies"!
If there are more rules that I broke, I may not understand the guidelines well enough.
In any case, I apologize, especially if fWSes are here and felt hurt in any way. I think all those fWSes trying to R are brave and don't deserve a surprise slap in the face where it's not expected.
Hell, I'm in love with one.
However, sinsofthefather, you eloquently described EXACTLY my biggest struggle right now. If my H can admit all the falseness of their 'love', but still feel remorse over hurting the OW as well as me, is that ok? I really don't know. It doesn't feel ok, but nothing really feels great in the wake of this betrayal. How long do I give my H to discover his feelings on love? What if he believes we can continue to R but he will never say that they did NOT have love?
For what it's worth, if you want an opinion of someone else - here's mine. No, I could not R with a man who thought that he owed OW the same remorse that he owed me, or thought that he had hurt us both the same. OW chose to risk being hurt. That's on her alone. Her decision. Her consequence to bear. Alone.
OW is a big girl and she knew, and chose to proceed knowing the risks she was taking. No one is forced into an affair. At any time one or other of the AP's can say 'No. This is wrong - if you want a relationship with me - get divorced first'. She didn't say that. Your husband didn't hypnotise her, she knew all along he was married - and according to your husband he also told her that he would never leave you. In which case, all along, she knew this was the potential outcome - that she is on her own. She just thought she could change his mind and change who was the person who was going to be left crying in the end. Her gamble. Her choice.
There were four people in your situation that have ended up hurting. But two of those people actually CHOSE those actions that they knew would cause the hurt. The other two were oblivious to what was going on and were hurt and betrayed without their consent or knowledge. OW is not one of those people.
If your husband wants to feel remorse for someone else as well as you then he should be feeling it for the man who has ended up divorced and still doesn't even know what the final nail in the coffin of his marriage was. I'd say if your husband wants to feel remorse for causing someone other than you pain, then he owes OW's husband more remorse than he owes the OW.
Unless he was living in OW's house with her and her husband he does not know the truth about that man. He only knows what OW told him and what he saw as an outsider with one sided information to go on. Your husband now sees his own part in whatever problems there may have existed in your marriage pre affair - but I bet when he was telling OW all his troubles it would have been a different story. Then it would have been all your fault. Same with her husband then - who really knows the truth about her marriage? Not your husband for sure, him having only one side of the story.
So, if he feels remorse about OW being alone - I'd say he's better served feeling it for her ex husband instead.
OW chose her actions. She went in with her eyes open. She chose the chance of pain when she took the risk of those actions. You and OW could not both be the 'winner' (if you can call it that) of your husbands heart. There could only be one 'winner' here. She knew that one of you was going to end up getting hurt and being alone. She made the choice to gamble on it being you and not her. Again, her choice, her gamble, her consequence. According to your husband he never led her on about that. If she left - he wouldn't. She chose to take that gamble of being left alone.
I said before and still believe that she left her husband to help her 'win' the battle that you didn't even know you were fighting by putting the odds in her favour. She was now free, single and with a place he could go if he left you. She was prepared for you and your children to be left alone. She absolutely knew that it had to go one way or the other - she absolutely knew that someone was going to get hurt and she was prepared for it to be you.
So I don't think OW deserves your husbands 'remorse' any more than he deserves hers. They both chose their actions. If he thinks his actions were wrong - then so were hers. It wasn't a one person affair. They both participated. They both caused destruction in each others lives, she chose to leave her husband of her own free will. Your husband didn't make her....and finally they both chose to hurt you. You and OW's husband - even though he doesn't even know it. Those are the two people your husband should concentrate his remorse towards in my opinion. You and OW's husband. The only person he needs to feel remorse and make amends to - is you.
He has to let the OW go from his mind. Feeling remorse towards her is breaking mental NC. It still keeps OW in his mind. Keeps him emotionally linked to her. He needs to let her go from his thoughts. There are many posts on the Wayward board here that could help him to do that. Here is a link to one that may help him to do that.
eachdayisvictory, I really hope that your husband can give you what you need for your R to succeed. It's very obvious how much you want this to work - and I think by the sound of things your husband does too - but he can't have it all. He can't have his fond memories and expect you to accept them. He's got some work to do in his own mind about what the affair was and who he owes his remorse to - he can't sit back and leave this alone because I do think it would eventually derail your R attempt. He can't keep his cherished memories alive and expect you to deal with them. He should be dealing with them by consciously deciding to let them go and putting some work into making that happen. But in the end - if he can't - only you can decide what you can live with, and if you can't live with your husbands insistence that it was true love - then you just can't....and that is OK. ((eachdayisvictory))
[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 12:07 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]
Claps to you!