Guy and girl date long distance 2 years, make it work. He finally picks up, leaves his friends, family and great job and moves 750 miles away to be with her. After 4 months she decides to move 900 miles away for 3 months to take a glamorous, well paying, temporary job. He's pissed, but doesn't say anything. She comes back and all is well, it's great actually, and she then decides to move 200 miles away to get her PhD. So again, he's left along in a foreign city. He saved for a ring, hoping she would decide to stay. He wants to marry her. Both of these decisions happened within one year of him moving. As she was leaving, mind you a PhD is 4-5 years, he meets someone and just wants to talk. Just wants some sort of companionship. It goes array; too far. For 4 weeks he sees OW, they never have sex, it does cross physical boundaries, but no sex. It crosses emotional lines too, sentimental things, which may be worse than sex. The girl finds out and is irate, hurt, everything. And rightfully so. The guy is filled with remorse. He meets with her parents, apologizes, weeps, looks her father in the eye and apologizes for letting them down and that he loves his daughter. He meets with friends and apologizes, never blames. Affirms his love for her. He seeks an IC. Finds, unknown to him at the time, that he was devastated that she left. He felt he wasn't good enough.
The girl is now off, busy, creating a new life for herself and keeps blaming him and saying he shit on her and her trust of him. He betrayed her, which he did. She never once acknowledges that she hurt him. That he scarified everything for her, and she left. In the meantime, she implements a new "rule". She can contact him, but he can not contact her. When its convenient for her, or when she needs him, which has been almost daily. She won't see him when she's in town, if she does it's brief and cold.
Obviously, I am the guy in this situation. Do I hang around, be a punching bag. Take whatever she's willing to give? Or cut contact, see if she misses me, she if she realizes it's worth it? I don't know what to do. All our friends are telling me they thought her decision was selfish, going to school and all. I know what I did WAS WRONG. I know I betrayed her. I live with that guilt everyday. I wanted, and still do want to, marry her. What do I do? Am I wrong for being pissed at her sometimes?
[This message edited by TennesseeGuy at 3:03 PM, October 28th (Monday)]
You're not wrong for feeling angry, but be careful about "being pissed AT her." If you're angry that your GF seems to only be capable of a LD relationship (that's my barely-informed judgment), that's completely valid. She may be primarily interested in her career and education, and you come second. Being pissed at her for *who she is,* though, is unfair. Instead be pissed at yourself, that you chose to stay with her despite your apparent incompatibility.
When I say I'm pissed, I'm pissed at her inability to realize that maybe I was/am hurt. She refuses to think that I was so upset that I did something this awful. She can't correlate, "I'm sad my GF left, I'm going to see someone else." And I get that, but at some point I would like her to acknowledge that I chose her. I gave up everything for her. And she never once chose me. And as upset as I am, and frustrated as I am, I still love her. I still would take a bullet for her. We were / can be perfect for eachother. We were a match made in heaven, and I lost sight of that. I threw a pity party and made terrible decisions. I just don't know what to do now. She seems pretty determined to not let it go. She has even made the comment that she does not want to talk to anyone back home, who all agree she made a selfish decision and were totally confused by her choice to move away, again, because she does not want to be told "I told you so" or "What did you expect him to do" or "You can't have it all" I wish someone would just tell her how much I love her. Tell her the steps I have taken aren't what most people will do. In a dating relationship, most people would cut ties, move on. Her father looked me in the eyes, shook my hand, and said what I did (talking to him and her mother) took great courage and most people wouldn't do that.
I just want the opportunity to love her like she deserves.
All affairs are variations on a theme. No one has 'Beethoven's 5th' to everyone else's 'Chopsticks'.
I'm pissed at her inability to realize that maybe I was/am hurt.
OK, her "give a shit" is broken, and maybe it always has been. You're making my point, again. Why are you pissed at her for being...her? Are you pissed at the sky for being blue?
You got some IC. Good. Have him/her help you figure out why you chose an emotionally unavailable GF, and don't settle for this...
she never once chose me
He's pissed, but doesn't say anything.
Why didn't you say anything? Did you give her the impression that you were happy in the relationship and happy for her opportunity to further her career?
When I say I'm pissed, I'm pissed at her inability to realize that maybe I was/am hurt.
Have you told her NOW that you are pissed off and why, or are you expecting her to just realize it?
And just to add, I am not pissed at her or blaming her for "making me cheat."
She refuses to think that I was so upset that I did something this awful. She can't correlate, "I'm sad my GF left, I'm going to see someone else."
Honestly, I'm not really understanding what you are saying here, but it does kinda does sound like you are blaming her.
She has even made the comment that she does not want to talk to anyone back home, who all agree she made a selfish decision and were totally confused by her choice to move away, again, because she does not want to be told "I told you so" or "What did you expect him to do" or "You can't have it all"
So she doesn't want to go home and have people tell her she is to blame for you cheating?
We were / can be perfect for eachother. We were a match made in heaven, and I lost sight of that.
I'm not seeing this perfect match from what you describe if you couldn't communicate with each other. It doesn't sound like you were on the same page.
Her recognizing that you chose her, and her not letting it go of what you did are not the only problems with your relationship. No relationship is perfect or easy. You both have to want to work on it.
In the meantime, she implements a new "rule". She can contact him, but he can not contact her. When its convenient for her, or when she needs him, which has been almost daily. She won't see him when she's in town, if she does it's brief and cold.
Why are you tolerating this? It sounds like you are no longer in a relationship?
I think the 'match made in heaven' thinking is clouding your judgement.
You make great points. Let me try and address them.
We were 3 hours away, but my sister was pregnant with her first, and my first nephew, so I moved to be with my family (12 hours away) during that time. She basically said I can't do this any longer (LD) and i decided she was worth it. We did not move in together. I moved to a foreign city with nothing to my name, got a job as a financial analyst, and an apartment. I created a life in this new city.
I didn't say anything, because I supported her. I told her, verbatim, "This isn't good for us, but this is good for you. Go get your dream."
Yes, I have told her now. That not only her moving for her PhD hurt me, but her leaving for 3 months for a temporary job. That was what really killed me.
I am not blaming her. But she isn't seeing how I was hurt. She almost makes light of the fact that I was hurt. I did not cheat because she left, but it was an unconscious reaction. It was one of those things where it felt nice to be wanted. It felt like she didn't want me, she wanted her future career more than me.
Exactly, she knows how people feel. All of our friends think what she did was selfish. They heard she was leaving to get her PhD and everyone, EVERYONE, said "Wow, he moved to be with you and you're leaving?!?" Her own father said, "I don't think [He] will be okay if you leave."
Lastly, I am tolerating this because I love her. As we all know here, love isn't rational. It doesn't always makes sense. I pray everyday that the Lord take my feelings for her. I pray that I wake up tomorrow and forget about her; that I feel nothing for her. But that doesn't happen. In actuality, I love her more each day. I care more each day. She is lovely. She is smart. She is everything I ever wanted.
All I had to say was "Stay, I want to marry you." But i couldn't. I didn't want her to look back in 10 years and say, "I wish I had gone." I didn't want to hold her back. I was trying to be selfless, to put her first. She said to me, "If this means I get a ring on my finger I'll stay." But I did not want to dangle is like a carrot in front of her. I wanted her to stay, because SHE wanted to stay. Not for a diamond.
But what I would give for her to wear my diamond today. This is gut wrenching. It's like star crossed lover stuff. We love(d) each other. I still love her, but based on her actions now, I wonder if she is still in love with me.
It's 43 days since DDay. 6 weeks of absolute hell.
[This message edited by TennesseeGuy at 8:19 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]
I get what you are saying, but you did tell her to go. You did say it would be a good idea for her to follow her dream and now it seems like you are holding that against her. You didn't say -- I sacrificed everything to move here to be with you. Or -- go and we can see other people.
She may have expected you to talk about your feelings and end the relationship because of the distance between you but I doubt she expected to be cheated on. So, unless your friends have experience with that directly, they won't understand. Their opinions don't matter. My opinion doesn't matter. It's your GF's opinion that matters.
If I'm understanding it correctly, she was cheated on by the guy she wanted to marry. She will have so many emotions going on inside of her right now. At 6 weeks out, I'm not surprised she is not thinking about your hurt. I can't think of many BS or BGF who would be. They're own hurt takes precedence. Kinda like your hurt took precedence when you cheated.
I did not cheat because she left, but it was an unconscious reaction.
I don't agree with that. It may not seem like it, but IMO, it was a conscious decision. At some point you decided it was what you wanted to do. You told yourself it was acceptable.
Personally, I don't think her going off to school to get a PhD was selfish. Not the way you have described it. She was making a choice to improve herself, and you encouraged that. You chose to cheat to soothe yourself. IMO, if you are trying to get her to see that these are equal or relatable, you are not helping the situation. If you think she should be flattered simply because you are choosing her, or that be enough for her at this point -- I don't think she will see it that way. That's just from where I sit though.
She no longer trusts you and perhaps herself either. That takes a lot of hard work and a long time to rebuild. 6 weeks may seem like an eternity, but it is a drop in the bucket. She will be looking at your actions, not words. She may decide that she doesn't want to continue a relationship with you and you will have to accept that. Maybe she's already decided that, IDK.
Your feelings are valid because they are your feelings, I just don't think she is going to be interested in them at this time and you will need to accept that at some point too. And of course if you feel you are being mistreated or you've done all you can do, end it with her. But don't do it because you are testing to see if she will miss you and come running to you. Don't play games, be honest and upfront with her and go from there.
Has she given you a reason why you can't call her? Why does she call you daily?
The best advice I can give you is to stick around and read on this site. You do belong here. Good luck.
Perhaps some good boundaries are in order to help you move through these stages and into acceptance. If she's allowed to call you whenever she wants, that has to hurt the process. I don't see how you could do the grief work you need to do when she's dragging things out. Commitments work both ways-- she needs to reciprocate or move on. It might be too early to expect her to make that decision, but the sooner the better for you. I'd suggest consulting with your therapist. Make sure he/she knows the full extent of your communication with her.
Good luck. I went through something similar over a year ago and I'm still experiencing emotional fallout (for instance, I cried doing some grief work yesterday-- I think I'm finally moving through accepting my reality though (thank god)). I wish you the best.
“When we disclose the thought and intents of our hearts in surrender, we identify with one another at depth.”
This is a very complex situation, as everybody's is. I want to be clear, that in no way shape or form do I blame her for what I DID. I do not say that her leaving made me cheat. I do think, through my IC, I have realized that that's why is happened. My self-pity and inability to communicate is what led to this.
I never told her to stay, because I knew she was gone. I knew, the minute she was accepted into this program, she was going. And I did not want to look like a fool with a ring in my pocket when she left. Something in me refused to allow me to be vulnerable. My IC and I have been working on that. Getting to the why behind that.
And to another point, I too, do not want to play games. This isn't a game. But I do believe, if I sit there hanging on every word, being there at her beck and call, like I have been for three years, nothing will change. She'll just expect it, like she always has, and always should. I just wonder if the realization that I'm not longer there would change her prospective.
I do know it's only been 6 weeks and that this can take longer. But how long until I can expect some sort of direction. At some point, she needs to say yes, I want to work on this and move forward, or no, I can not move on from this. That will happen, I just don't know when.
[This message edited by TennesseeGuy at 9:40 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]
If you truly love this woman, I would say you can at least try to make it work. No words will heal her heart right now and it's going to take some serious work to realign the two of you. It could take a few months, it could be a few years. Just know you can change this in time if she is willing. It is all up to her and how you proceed.
Knowing the details doesn't always make you feel satisfied. In my case, it just made me want to burn a perfectly good couch!
I really like what Dixie had to say. It seems like the communication wasn't there. I understand you wanted to be supportive, but you have to be able to share your feelings as well.
I think it's a great thing for you to stay in IC, work on getting healthy for you. There's a thread I'm going to try to find and bump for you in this forum; I think it might relate. Best of luck to you.
My self-pity and inability to communicate is what led to this.
Identifying and admitting this is a big deal.
What I was disputing is that this is tied into your GF moving away. This is you. It was in you regardless if she moved away. The catalyst that brought it to the surface is not as important as the fact that it was there. This is the stuff that you can control.
Keep working on your communication and challenging the victim mentality. Even if this relationship ends, working on these things about yourself with help you down the road.
At some point, she needs to say yes, I want to work on this and move forward, or no, I can not move on from this.
Definitely she does, but her idea of moving on from this may differ from yours. And I don't just mean that the relationship ends. If moving on means to you that you don't discuss it again, it's in the past, over and done, now let's move on -- that's not how it works.
ETA: Nealos brought up a good point about the stages of grief. These stages happen to a betrayed when they have been cheated on too. They are mourning the loss of the relationship they thought they had. Try to remember your BGF may be experiencing these same stages as well, such as denial and anger. So you are, again, not in sync with one another.
[This message edited by DixieDevastated at 11:24 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]
From working in academia, I'm finding it slightly difficult to believe that you knew nothing about the PhD program before you moved to her city. You usually have to prep an application and apply up to a year in advance for acceptance into a program the following academic year, so if she started this recently, she would have been preparing for this at least this time last year. Did you move because she was doing that and were concerned with the way the relationship was going? Was there no communication about her applying to the program at all?
I'm just...kinda lost in some of the details - you moved 12 hours away because your sister was pregnant and then moved to your girlfriend's town without any type of communication about her career plans? Or expectations on the immediate or near future?
She is unwilling to have a conversation about it right now. She's too busy with school and "needs to focus" on that.
To clarify. We lived 3 hours apart when we met. Dated for a year like that. Then my contract ended and it was time to move one, and I went back home, 12 hours from her, to be with my sister and family as we welcomed a new member into our family. Then after 6 months, I moved to be with my GF.
Lastly, the conversation was had. She was suppose to stay in town, at a very large Public Research University to get her PhD. She was accepted to the masters program, not PhD. She could have gone that route and added a year, but instead she was accepted into the PhD program at another university.
I did not move because of concern. I moved because I wanted to be with her. I left my family because I wanted her to become my family. We talked about this. We talked about marriage. Her own parents made comments about, "I hope your realize the commitment he's made to you"
I get the PhD. I do. It's life changing. But this was the second time she left, and the first time was miserable. Weekends are great, but when you're sitting at home, eating a frozen dinner on a Tuesday night, after you picked up to be with her. It just sucks. And I was an idiot. I messed up huge. And I know my transgressions supersede anything she could have done to hurt me.
Wish I had just said... "Stick Around."
That's a very real possibility. Although, I don't believe its accurate. But I understand thinking that.
There are a lot of psychological matters that come into play. Do I just not want her to be with someone else? Do you always want what you can't have? Am I in love with the idea of being in love with her?
It all comes back to the fact that I love this woman for who she is, who she was, and who she will be. I love her for her heart and for her selfishness. She's doubting that right now. She doesn't understand how men can feel one way and then take actions that contradict those feelings (i.e. me wanting to be with her so bad and hurting, and then turning around and cuddling with someone else) I know it's not rational. I was selfish.
I just wish we could start over.
[This message edited by TennesseeGuy at 12:48 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]
She doesn't understand how men can feel one way and then take actions that contradict those feelings (i.e. me wanting to be with her so bad and hurting, and then turning around and cuddling with someone else).
Men? This is you, TN, don't (either of you) blame your gender. But that's beside the point. If I were her, I'd be worrying about what happens when you're married, she goes away on a business trip for two weeks, and you feel lonely. Do you have another "unconscious reaction" and fall into someone else's arms...or bed next time?
If you want a future with this woman, you need to square this...
I love her for her heart and for her selfishness.
That not only her moving for her PhD hurt me, but her leaving for 3 months for a temporary job. That was what really killed me.
Because she's right, you're contradicting yourself.