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User Topic: Anyone else's WH say they no longer want to be monogamous?
Broken1Again
♀ Member
Member # 32211
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Basically what he is saying is "I want to cake eat and don't want the guilt associated with it, so deal". How do you feel about it?

Do you play sports? I liken this to a hockey game where you shoot and the puck goes past the goalie and you celebrate, but the ref says "no goal". You say "why?" He says, "because I've decided to change the rules and you now have to shoot the puck over the net for it to be a goal." And you are left going "huh???"

(Can you tell I play a lot of sports!) But really, your WS has changed the rules mid game/mid-season. He can't do that. You don't marry someone, take vows, and all of a sudden years later say "I don't like those vows, I'm going to change it without talking to my spouse".

Let's face it. If your WS was really really struggling with monogamy, why wouldn't he have said something years ago? Why wait til he is having an A before declaring he no longer wants to be monogamous. How convenient...FOR HIM!

Put your foot down and tell him no. Tell him it's her or you and be prepared that he might choose the OP. Having said that though, you are better off knowing now then to keep living this charade where only one of you is happy.


BS: 40
WS: 42
Two boys 13/11
Married 15 years
Dday: too Many to remember. 3 significant OW and many "less"'significant OW. Believe WS has bad boundaries and craves the attention.
In R.

Posts: 883 | Registered: May 2011
Gr8Lady
♀ Member
Member # 36307
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a marriage, partnership, which simply put it isn't all about WS and what he wants.
What do you want. Better yet what do you deserve?
Certainly not a selfish WS that does not recognize the complete and total disrespect he is asking of you.
It is still all about him.


BS: Me (63yo)
FWH: HIM (65yo) serial infidelities over past 35 years
OW: Many, most recent 1/2 his age
DD: Multiple unconfirmed until 2012 when I presented evidence, plus LTA with his friends wife lasting 10 years. TT over past year
So done,

Posts: 623 | Registered: Jul 2012
nowiknow23
♀ Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This post about the 180 is also great.
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25842 | Registered: Aug 2011
Housefulloflove
♀ Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex is a giant coward so he clearly said it in actions but would never say it in words.

He started reading books on polygamy but swore that it was just "interesting to read" and not a reflection of what he believed. He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire.

But still it was just what he was reading not his beliefs!

Then he had an affair and thought that I had to accept his girlfriend. That was when the sick bastard starting using the BIBLE to defend his actions! After all they had sex so she was kind of like his new wife now! That POS would have said anything to get me to go along with the disgusting shit he was trying to pull. I swear when I think back to some of the craziness, I don't know how I maintained enough control to avoid committing a felony.

During the week between Dday and when I kicked his sorry ass out of the house, he even began to make arrangements for how he was going to split his time and asked me for permission to help her run an errand on what turned out to be his last day in our home. I guess my delay in reaction gave him the impression that he was going to get what he wants. One of the reasons why he is so full of anger now is because I destroyed his sick fantasy world he thought he finally created.

Your WH is an asshole saying and doing asshole things. He would tell you the sky is green with sincerity if it meant he got to do something he wanted to do. The issue isn't his belief in monogamy. He wants to see if there is a chance for him to have a wife to take care of him while he has a girlfriend on the side.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 7:43 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
Gemini71
♀ Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry honey, but if any of them wanted to be monogamous, they wouldn't have cheated. You're WS isn't remorseful and wants your permission to cheat. It's up to you to decide if you can do that or not. Honestly, you deserve better.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1878 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
LeopoldB
♂ Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sueonthemove,

Everyone here will provide very good advice. I can help provide not-such-great advice, so take it with a grain of salt.

He is 53. She is 61? You are 42. If you want your marriage and life back, time is on your side. This will not provide you the quick clean victory you want and deserve, but flash-forward 5 years. She is 66, a life of hard living has taken its toll. He is 58, maybe gets results of a medical exam that makes him start facing his own mortality. You are 48 and look hot, girl. 5 years later, she is 71 assuming she quits smoking. He is 63 and the audience for his music retires to bed shortly after the early-bird special stops serving. You are 53 and scorching hot, girl.

I am not suggesting that you do nothing and just take it.
Does he deserve your patience? No. Does she deserve a decade with your H? No.

But if you want to win, you can. The question is how to go about it and is life with him worth it. He does not sound like such a great prize, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

[This message edited by LeopoldB at 8:05 PM, October 28th (Monday)]


Posts: 212 | Registered: Sep 2013
sueonthemove
♀ New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow, you are all so AMAZING. I feel so empowered reading your posts and going over and over the 180. I haven't talked to WH much today, but I'm going to let him know that I'm not willing to be with him while he is having his A. That we can discuss again sometime if he changes his mind, but for now we will stay in separate bedrooms until we have other options.

Thank you all so so much... from the bottom of my (soon to be repaired) heart


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
PolyGal
♀ Member
Member # 20396
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So... I am not monagamous.

A lot of people, when transitioning from mono to poly, make a lot of mistakes. Ideally people would go into a marriage already having figured this out but that doesn't always happen. But bottom line is that he made an epic mistake. And as someone who isn't monogamous I agree that he needs to do whatever it takes to earn your trust back, because he cheated including ending that particular relationship. So yes, 180 his ass.

However, he may very well be serious that he doesn't want to be monogamous forever. And if you want to R, even if he does break it off with the OW, this is still going to be an issue.

Best case, he breaks it off with her, and you decide together if you want to be mono or poly. If you want to be mono and he wants to be poly then one of you will have to give up the preferred status to stay together. Or, you can decide together that you're fundamentally incompatible and decide to divorce. I suggest finding a counselor for MC to work through this together, to help figure it all out. If you're curious about poly styles a good place to start is http://openingup.net/ If you're ultimately not interested in a poly situation then he needs to accept it. If he can't accept it then you have a hard decision to make.


Posts: 118 | Registered: Jul 2008
jemimapd
♀ Member
Member # 37895
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire

I thought I had heard it all from my WH but this one had me spitting out my coffee.

Did he suggest a few concubines out in the shed as well?


Jemima Puddleduck is a trusting soul....
DD 1 Dec 2012; Divorced 11/13; 2 children
Me: BS (47) Him: WH (52) Her: 3 PA's
Ex bought a house, The Money Pit With Mold That Will Never Be Finished. He's living in the basement.

Posts: 726 | Registered: Dec 2012
crazynot
♀ Member
Member # 24572
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a bit worried that you're still giving him too much rope, by saying 'we can discuss it again if you change your mind'. Even if the affair stops, he's still the man who cheated on you and you'd be under no obligation AT ALL to take him back.


Me - 50
Him - 51
DDay 21 March 2009
Divorcing and delighted!

Do you want me to tell you something really subversive? Love is everything it's cracked up to be. That's why people are so cynical about it.


Posts: 882 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: UK
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The things they tell us and themselves just so they can live with themselves are ridiculous.

You mentioned money issues. He has a provider image crisis and goes straight for infidelity to soothe himself. Of course he wants to have her. He does not have to provide for her or share his earnings with her. She is free. No stress, no money, no bills, no problems.

This runs in the SI family.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1532 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Housefulloflove
♀ Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire
I thought I had heard it all from my WH but this one had me spitting out my coffee.
Did he suggest a few concubines out in the shed as well?

Not to T/J but it was things like this that had me convinced that he was literally going crazy until I found out about NPD and how far some will go to convince THEMSELVES that they are who they want others to believe them to be.

He would have told me that aliens abducted him and forced him to perform sex acts with OW if he thought I was willing to believe it and let him have his way.


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
forlornheart
♀ Member
Member # 40726
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So he wants an open marriage you stay together committed to your marriage but each of you has the option of going outside of the marriage for sex.

You said...no thank you but he's telling you he's going to do this whether you agree or not. Case closed.

I don't think I've ever heard of an open marriage working.

You're at a stand still here....I'd advise you to go directly to the courthouse, if you pass GO you collect $200!

I'm just don't see any wife that want's a committed marriage being able to cope with knowing your husband out having a little sex time with Jill, or was that Theresa, no....no....it's definitely Autumn! Yeah...the slutty blonde with no panties on!!

Don't put yourself through this, if he's going to do it anyway, file the paperwork for divorce. Please, please think this through! You are much too good for this.

I have to give him credit for at least being honest. Most men just do it on the down low.

Hugs!
Deb


Me: 48- BW
Him: 45-WH-chronic cheater, PA and EA
Current Her: Mid to late 30's fatassed, no necked, troglodyte
D Day: August 23, 2013
Separated: August 23, 2013


Posts: 52 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Michigan
damncutekitty
♀ Member
Member # 5929
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My XH claimed he wanted an open marriage, but he only said that after he had started having an A. Like if we called it an open marriage then somehow he was not the bad guy.

Even IF you were interested in having an open marriage, my guess is your WH currently is not capable of the honesty involved and certainly is not deserving of your trust. Don't let him bully you into something you're not comfortable with.


Keep calm and carry on.

Posts: 49482 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Minneapolis
twokids
♀ Member
Member # 23266
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, October 28th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH used to say he didn't know if he was 'cut out' for monogamy. It was his ready made excuse for cheating. The reality is that he was too scared to leave for his OW, and too weak to give her up.

So instead he lied and took what he wanted from both me and the OW. He didn't care what it cost me or her.

So it's not a matter of 'want,' like your WH doesn't 'want' to be monogamous. That's what he may tell himself and you, but don't believe it. He doesn't have what it takes to be a man and love one woman the rest of his life. He is an immature, self centered child in a man's clothing.

Stay strong and protect yourself. He has shown you he will lie and cheat to get what he wants in the moment, no matter what the long term cost.


Me: BS, 56
Him: WH, 50
5+ DDAYS; 10+ OW
Two sons, 16 & 18
M 19 yrs - detaching to divorce
In-house Separation since 7/2012

Posts: 393 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: California
sueonthemove
♀ New Member
Member # 41145
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ugh... now it gets hard... he's downstairs in his room... I'm upstairs in mine. I didn't even get a chance to tell him I wanted him to sleep downstairs because he had already taken his pillows out. Not feeling quite so empowered right now. I like being with him... and like I said, when we are together and getting along, it is GREAT... BETTER THAN EVER.

Just that minor detail about the girlfriend on the side

Just a bit worried that you're still giving him too much rope, by saying 'we can discuss it again if you change your mind'. Even if the affair stops, he's still the man who cheated on you and you'd be under no obligation AT ALL to take him back.

That's a good point... was thinking I was kind of going with the 180 on that. Any thoughts on what I SHOULD say to him, when we finally do talk again?

But you all are right... I don't deserve this... I want my husband back, but he has told me he will never be the same guy he was... he says he has changed and he just doesn't believe in the old "rules" of marriage anymore.

F**K... this isn't easy, my friends. I'm so thankful you are all here... and thankful that I can get my feelings out on here instead of texting him while he's in the other room (like I usually do)

[This message edited by sueonthemove at 12:13 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS 42
Him: WH 53
OW: desperate, lonely and trashy widow, 60
Together: 18 years
Married: 15 years
3 kids: 14, 11 and 8
D-day #1 6/10/13
False R
D-day #2 9/8/13

Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.


Posts: 46 | Registered: Oct 2013
standinghere
♂ Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 12:49 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, who has he been talking to...or is the fog just really thick there

He started trying to argue that monogamy was a societal expectation that ruined families starting during the Roman empire

No wonder my wife had an affair. It was because I was monogamous! I nearly destroyed my family with my thoughtless monogamous actions!


All this time I thought it was because of her

Low Self Esteem
Alcoholism
Drug Addiction
Approval Seeking

Or, just assuming that he could possibly be wrong, could it be because you are attractive, 10 years younger than him, in the best shape of your life, and he doesn't think he is good enough to keep you, so he steps out first to lessen the blow of the FEAR of losing you. Then covers it all up after getting caught with lie after lie after lie and justifications that are so laughable that they are going to cause many of us to choke to death on our Halloween candy.

I don't think I've ever heard of an open marriage working.

All the open marriages that I've ever come across worked quite well. That is, the partners had sex with whomever they chose, they all ended in divorce, and the kids all ended up wondering if anyone really ever gave a shit about them and where they were going to spend the holidays. The worked well for the most selfish person in the mix, and for nobody else.

That is the reality of all open marriages that I've known about. I have nothing against polyamory, open marriages, etc, but in all cases that I have run across the problem has been exactly what you are facing, that is one partner decides they want a rule change. If my wife wanted an open marriage, I'd divorce her. Not to be mean, but to be clear where my priorities are. I have a lot more opportunities for sex than most people do, usually with younger women but with older educated women as well (unfortunately most of whom probably have a daddy complex), but there is no way that I'd engage in that with another woman, and then have my wife have to face that reality, and start wondering how she compared to someone else.

It is her, only her, and if she wants it to be otherwise it will be "not her". The kids will always know that they come first, and not wonder if another person's kids or another woman is a higher priority than they are.

Unfortunately, most wayward spouses do a lot of crazy justification when caught, even years later.

My wife lied about her affair for 6 months after confessing initially, coming 9 years after the affair, justified, accused, and lied about me to make herself look better (that was the hardest thing to take, that she went to a counselor's office and lied about me, in front of me, to someone who didn't know me, over my protestations of innocence, made me look like I was inattentive, treated her with disregard, didn't value her contribution to the family). Thank goodness she came clean, because we were on the verge of divorce because of the irreconcilable views and memories. Never mind the lies to me.

Eventually, some people break down and tell the truth.

Your husband doesn't sound like he's there yet...but he's awfully close to dday to be ready to pull his head out of his "fog".

Good luck.



BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 1020 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
Thessalian
♀ Member
Member # 40633
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But you all are right... I don't deserve this... I want my husband back, but he has told me he will never be the same guy he was... he says he has changed and he just doesn't believe in the old "rules" of marriage anymore.

Good for his dumb ass. He can go marry someone else. What a jerk he's being, I'm so sorry he's treating you this way!

Look, I am pro-polyamory and non-monogamy in principle (in other words, though I'm not in a poly marriage, I appreciate the idea and have had poly-ish relationships before). But that kind of relationship is based on HONESTY, and radical trust. You need a ton of communication to make that work between all three parties, and maybe even more vigilance about openness and honesty than you need in a 2-person relationship, because you're balancing multiple people's feelings. That's hard work even when all parties WANT to be in the relationship.

Moreover, you do not get to enter into a life-long agreement to be in a monogamous relationship, and then change your damn mind in the most cowardly way possible because you feel like it. Your WH does not get to change the rules of engagement halfway through the game without consulting you. That behavior is tantamount to divorce. Forcing your wife into a non-consensual polyamorous relationship isn't polyamory, it's cruel, selfish abuse.

If I had any advice, it would be: don't give into his insanity because you want to keep him. Real polyamorous partners would clout your WH over the head and tell him to stop giving them a bad name. What your WH is doing is not polyamory. What your WH is doing is using the word "polyamory" as an excuse to be a cake-eating piece of shit bully. If you care to fight with him about this, read some poly literature - no polyamorous literature condones his behavior. But frankly, I don't know that it would be worth the effort.

Polyamory, non-monogamy, monogamy, and everything in between: dishonesty isn't part of any functioning relationship, no matter what flavor that relationship may be. 180 the crap of him.

[This message edited by Thessalian at 1:07 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Me: BW, 30
Him: WH, 36

7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.

First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014


Posts: 164 | Registered: Sep 2013
PolyGal
♀ Member
Member # 20396
Default  Posted: 1:29 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regarding the open marriage thing "working" by basically failing (i.e. working for the most selfish person in the group), the same thing could be said about monogamous marriages. With all the cheating and affairs that don't attempt to call themselves poly this should be a clue. The reality is that *relationships* can fail, regardless of how they are configured. Relationship partners can be good or bad, regardless of how many of them there are. The reality is that "cheating" is defined not by going outside a monogamous situation, but by breaking boundaries (and worse to lie about it or otherwise keep it secret), and that boundary happens to be emotional and/or sexual fidelity for mono people.

Additionally, success or failure of a relationship isn't dictated by whether or not it lasts forever. I have exes with whom I still friends, ended on good terms because we grew apart or for other reasons that didn't involve cheating or drama, and even though those relationships ended I don't consider them unsuccessful. That said, they were secondary relationships, not marriages. But I do know a lot of people who have had successful open/poly relationships, including married people.

Look, let's not hijack a thread by judging the relationship styles of other people. I'm coming back to this thread perhaps to offer a poly perspective, and also to reassure the OP that what her WH is doing is not poly. But poly is only one aspect of this. All of us are here because our relationships are or have been broken somehow by lies and bullshit, regardless of how our relationships are configured.

For a concise and well organized discussion on poly see http://www.morethantwo.com/polyamory.html (probably a better reference than the previous one, which is more of a blog advertising a book).

Anyway I agree that this guy is giving real poly a bad name, and I agree he needs to get hit with a clue x 4. While I agree with him in the sense that I know what it is like to truly love more than one person, and to not feel diminished love for my existing partners when I take a new partner, the way that he has gone about it is not appropriate, and is cheating. And if anyone took the time to read about poly they would see this. Perhaps the OP could share this resource with him *if* she's willing to consider R and willing to consider changing the dynamic. But I agree, OP, if this is not something that you think would be good for you, definitely don't go for it. You are not obligated to accept this. And even if you do decide to dip your toes in poly, you don't have to accept his AP. But if you read through the information in that link, it can help with thinking about what healthy poly generally looks like, and where your WH is going wrong.

(clarification - by OP I mean "original poster" not "other person" in this context)

[This message edited by PolyGal at 1:31 AM, October 29th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 118 | Registered: Jul 2008
summerain
♀ Member
Member # 37439
Default  Posted: 2:01 AM, October 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My only real response is musicians. The ones who 'don't make it' and still try to (even if he says he's not) always seem to have a lot of problems. I'm assuming he doesn't actually work in the music industry? Because they talk

I'm around a lot of them. It's ridiculous. Is this a covers band for upscale events or is this covers in a pub or even worse is it originals?

TBH. I would never let my husband have a woman in his band. NEVER. Those recording sessions (if the band is earning enough), the rehearsals?

Fuck that.

He needs to be out of that band. And he needs to be out of your life if he doesn't end it straight away.

Turn up to one of their gigs and confront the slut. INFRONT of the rest of the band.

Easiest way to split them all up.
I mean do they have industry connections (i.e someone that could give him a job tutoring, lecturing etc)? If not I seriously can't see one reason for them to be together.

Feel free to PM me the name of the band and I'll have a look at them.

By the way the 'no longer want to be monogamous' is just selfishness and diversion tactics. If he truly didn't want to be monogamous i.e thought this out before all of this he would of followed (if he has a brain) polygirl's recommendations to begin with.

At the end of the day if his values don't align yours then that's a dealbreaker. I don't feel neither here or there about poly relationships just that it does not align with my values at all. However different strokes for different folks, if you both had the same values then why not? But you don't and you really can't convince yourself that you can, it's ingrained.


OW1 inadvertently let me know WH loves English breakfast tea. Never ever saw him drink it. And I never will.

Posts: 818 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Australia
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