It's only wrong if you don't want him there. This is your life and you need to live it how you want.
You're right... and honestly, I need his help around the house and with the kids right now (so I can work at ROCKING my business, which will then give me options).
I've had an AWESOME 24hrs... had a total breakdown yesterday, bawled my head off, he called me needy... THEN... I found this forum, you amazing people and the 180. We have hardly spoken since... we both work at home and have been here all day, and usually by now I would've tried to talk with him and it would've gotten ugly. Instead, I woke up and was happy around the kids, completely pleasant around him and have made NO attempts to have contact with him (the part about following him around the house really got me... I was totally doing that). I feel like a whole new me. And I realize it's only 24hrs, and it's an emotional roller-coaster, but I am going to do everything in my power to stick to that 180. Maybe he'll come out of his fog, maybe he won't, but I will keep my dignity in tact.
And, I'm thinking about a mysterious night out tonight... maybe I'll just drive and park somewhere for a few hours, but nevertheless, I'm going to disappear for a bit.
Separate bedrooms, same house and he is still with OW.
To date, everything is about him, what he wants, what he doesn't...
He is not living in some off-screen version of Big Love, he's a middle aged guy having some sort of epiphany that life is passing him by.
We are probably all guilty of having those thoughts at some stage, the difference is whether you act on them or not.
He chose to.
The collateral damage is you, your kids, your marriage, your security, your happiness.
And right now he doesn't care.
He's already told you that if it's not this OW, it will be another, that this is what he needs, what he wants. Please believe, if it was you with OM, he wouldn't be telling you to go ahead.
Imagine yourself in the future, sitting at home alone, wondering where he is and who he's with.... is this the life you want?
Because that's what he's offering, that's the best he can do for his wife and family, leave them repeatedly for another... mindless of the ramifications.
His sense of self-entitlement is unbelievable.
I'll sound cynical (and yes, I am, this stuff will do that to you...), Most people are incapable of true change, it takes exceptional events and or exceptional character to really change, and it's usually after realization of what you might loose.
In his mind, he's not loosing anything, he's gaining.... he still wants his life, wife and family and oh yes, he wants a girlfriend on the side.
And he expects you to be okay with that.
He's not likely to change, you can try and wait him out but at what cost?
So he slept in another bedroom? good, I'd follow that up by putting his clothes etc in there too....
Sue, show him the consequences of his choices, contact a lawyer, separate out your finances, 180 him to hell and back...
And start taking control of this terrible situation you find yourself in.
This ends when you say it does.
Hugs, lots of hugs, be strong Sue, you need to take control of this.
Divorce papers would freak the shit out of him. hmmmm.
This is no different, really, than a WS who insists that he/she should get to be friends with the AP after having an affair. Lay down your boundaries and be prepared to stick to your consequences. One of two things will happen, he will realize what he's about to lose or he will leave. Either way, you aren't living with constant turmoil and angst anymore.
When my husband had his first affair, I didn't really enforce boundaries- each time letting him slide the line a little further out. I'm convinced that's why I went through a second Dday. When he argued for "friendship" after the second dday, I told him I was no longer willing to tolerate his "friendships" with the opposite sex since he has proven he has terrible boundaries. Oh, he whined and cried that I was "trying to pick his friends" for him. I answered quite seriously "No, I'm not choosing your friends. I'm giving you the boundaries for what I'm willing to tolerate to stay in this marriage with you. You can have all the female friends you want. You just can't have them and also stay married to me. You decide which is more important to you." I then left. When I came back, he was singing a different tune.
He knows without a doubt that I mean business. One violation of that agreement and I'm done. One more lie comes out and I'm done. He used up all his chances. But I really wish I had put my foot down in the same way the first time.
You've been married 18 years. I was at 17 years the first time. Don't take any crap from him, seriously. You know what you deserve. You know what your kids deserve. He's gotten to play around with his music and let you carry the load for 18 years and he has the balls to cheat? Either he gets his shit together or kick him to the curb. I wouldn't be giving him another four months to figure it out either. I'm thinking he better have the right answer by say midnight tonight...
DD#2: 9/28/2010 with a follow up on 1/28/2011 where he decided to come clean about the EA actually being a PA.
The OW could have been anybody and both turned out to be nobody special.
I'd like to ask you (and everyone here) a question... do you think I should give him an ultimatum right now? Or should I continue with the 180. Because right now the 180 feels like it's working... he's probably totally shocked right now that I've made no effort whatsoever to even speak to him today. I'm not sure it's the right time yet for an ultimatum.
I'd be telling him what I would require to work on it now and I'd let him know what the consequences of not being willing to do what you need are and then follow through (If that means filing for divorce, you go see a lawyer.). Before you give him any ultimatums, sit down and seriously think about what you want out of your marriage and what you are going to do if you don't get it. When you know for sure what you want, then you talk to him. And if he doesn't get it and pull his head out of his ass, you keep doing the 180 while you follow through on the consequences you decided upon.
[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 5:40 PM, October 29th (Tuesday)]
Then, I'd clearly and concisely lay out my requirements - don't get into any conversation or deflection from him - tell him there's nothing to discuss if he tries, and then straight back to the 180.
It's only been a matter of hours Sue, stick with it.
He is exposing you and possibly kids to disease with his cheating. For example hepatitis is transmitted by close physical contact as is oral herpes
I need his help around the house and with the kids right now (so I can work at ROCKING my business, which will then give me options
You can negotiate many things, monogamy doesn't have to be one of them.
If you choose to divorce, he will still (theoretically) be responsible for parenting 50% of the time!
yes, for sure.. and I don't have any concerns about that... he has been an amazing dad and I know he will continue to be.
BUT, I don't have the option to live apart from him right now as we don't have the finances for that unfortunately.
I AM THE MAIN EARNER. He has never been. I have basically supported us for the entire 18 years.
Gently, these 2 statements don't add up.
As the primary wage earner, YOU have more financial resources, and more POWER (bargaining power)!
Your wayward/polyamorist is the person who simply cannot support his dream lifestyle. That's what it is. A dream. Play music and fuck many women.
YOU have choices here!! Never forget that!
You have said this before, and we've told you that he would still be responsible for paying his share because of the kids. You CAN do this, but deep inside you don't want to. That's your choice, but please, don't lie to yourself right now. He's done enough of that. You need to be very clear with yourself what you will and will not accept, and what you do and do not want.
Consequences - it's been said here before, he is losing nothing. So, why should he stop? He still has his family, his home, his wife, everything, and he has a girlfriend. So what will stop him?
Consequences. He needs to see real loses for his actions. Real consequences. He's so selfish right now, your pain means nothing. And yet you're concerned for him. Why?
A child that behaves poorly is told to stop. He doesn't. He is told to stop again. He doesn't. He is told to stop again. He begins to see that this is the only consequence he will face, and doesn't stop. He is told to stop again. He just laughs and keeps doing it. He is told to stop again. No reaction at all. He is told once more, and again, no reaction. He is taken from his current place, sent to his room, told to stay there until he learns to listen, and begins to cry. Why? Because he's been affected.
Without consequences, the behavior WILL NOT STOP. You need to understand this. You need to understand that he will only sink deeper, and see you as weaker and weaker in the process for accepting this behavior. He called you needy. Do you see? He is devaluing you, and that will cause him to care less about hurting or disrespecting you. He's already seeing you as pathetic. Don't let that continue.
Please, stand up for yourself and your children. Stand up for your family be getting rid of the poison within it.
If you want to give him an ultimatum that he respect the boundaries of his vows then by all means do it, BUT be prepared to carry through on consequences, meaning if you tell he if he doesn't stop you will be forced to D, then be prepared to D, or at least file.
You feel that financially you are stuck, however you are the breadwinner....This seems contradictory to me. Please even if you have ZERO intention of D, go see an attorney, and find out how a D would go down, and how things will be split, and what your rights are.
Many women end up staying in a bad situation because they feel they can't afford to D, and that may not be true for them or for you. If you are no longer supporting him, perhaps he will be forced to get a full time job with benefits to take care of himself. It's not your responsiblity to support and care for him, if he is abusing you, and your M.
If this was your daughter or best friend in this situation what would you tell her to do?
I am an entrepreneur, WH is a musician. We've had huge ups and huge downs over the years. That is the nature of both of our businesses.
At this point, we have enough coming in to cover the next month, but no guarantees of what's coming in the following month.
That's hard for people with 9-5 jobs to understand, but it's part of being an entrepreneur and I'm OK with that. I would not trade what I do for a regular job ever, and I know I will always get through the down times.
I am doing the 180... FOR ME. I'm detaching, and it's working. We are in separate bedrooms and able to stay pretty far away from each other. I read the 180 over and over through the day... I am big on personal growth and know the power of re-training my brain and that's what the 180 is doing.
So, while it may look to some that I need to get him out of here right now, or file for D, I am ok with this for now and expect that within a few months I will have enough money coming in to make other options.
[This message edited by sueonthemove at 12:10 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
And I don't think you are ready for ultimatums yet. You need to get your ducks in a row.
[This message edited by k9lover1 at 12:38 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
I am also a business owner I live off my commissions only. Knowing that this makes me nervous I have switched carriers still staying a business owner but different profession. So if I ever feel the need EVER I am not stuck. I will have 2 professions and I won't have to support him because he makes the $$$.
It is hard when you work 12 hour days and damn no money this month.. I get that. Oh how I get that. But you will be more productive once his cheating disrespectful cake eating ass is out of your HOUSE! Trust me.. I have seen it on here many many times.
Do not delay make a lawyer appointment go see what your options are. He has to work he has to pay for his kids 50/50.
What if this was your daughter? You would tell her the same thing you would pack his bags for him!
Go see a lawyer find out what your options are take that home to him. Tell him you have seen a lawyer you are not willing to live any other way then in a monogamous relationship. If he tells you he doesn't want that then tell him you are filing. Sit down and write out what he gets out of the house etc. Some states you can file for $150 and be done in 2 months! Think you can get him to agree now maybe on things he won't in 6 months?
Get your ducks in a row..
If you have to wait till after tax time I get that too! Again I am a business owner and things are different with us and our mindset..
Sooo come to us for support.
Take what you need for your daily survival.. We all get needing someone to talk to. You can not talk to him.
That being said who are you going to talk to in the real world?? Join some clubs not strip clubs haha... Be active in kids school be the best YOU he ever saw slamming that door in his face!! All of us are going to love watching you get stronger till he is gone or gets his ass straight!
So yeah, I agree with what everyone said. Begin the 180 NOW, you deserve better!
I did stick to the 180 though and didn't ask him when he'll be home (which I have always done up until now). We shall see if he makes it back in 2 hours...
[This message edited by sueonthemove at 1:09 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
If you guys decide to R and not D a post nup agreement to provide for you and your kiddos isn't a bad idea...
In the meantime the 180 is excellent for keeping your sanity until your WH pulls his head out of his but and gets real with himself and you and does the work of R or you decide to D..
[This message edited by doggiediva at 4:04 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]
I have a feeling that he's going to meet her on her lunch break... just a hunch, you know...
He's "allowed" to meet her for lunch, or take her to bed. He's told you he has no intention of being monogamous.
There have been no consequences for him reneging on his marriage vows.
He's rewriting the rules ...
I am big on personal growth and know the power of re-training my brain and that's what the 180 is doing.
ETA: Positive reinforcement for him and his behavior. Negative reinforcement for your brain.
[This message edited by ladies_first at 3:43 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]