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User Topic: I am feeling horrible.
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Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know affairs are from loneliness, fear or anger (or all 3)

Um, what?

Affairs are from low self esteem and entitlement, poor coping skills and pure selfishness, not loneliness, fear or anger. Well, I guess you may find some revenge affairs stemming from anger.

Your H wasn't lonely or afraid. He was selfish and has a low self esteem. He found someone to boost that esteem by accepting him and wanting him, and he went for it to get a 'fix'. Don't think for a second this was some kind of cry for help. It was an act of pure selfishness, nothing more.

Alex, I realize you had 20 years that were 'good', but your H is now a serial cheater. He won't stop. He's done this more than a handful of times, and honestly I'd be looking really closely at the first 20 years of your relationship. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find more cheating back then, and that you only started finding it after you started looking, once he was caught 4 years ago.

Your H does this every time. He cries "oh, you deserve better. I won't stand in your way. You should be happy, I'm so sorry but I understand, blah blah blah." This is what he did last time, no? He's now trying for your sympathy, but I've yet to see any real change from him, and neither have you which is really what's important here.

He's suddenly willing to let you go. Perhaps this last one was an exit affair, where the WS cheats hoping that the BS finds out and ends the relationship. That way, the WS doesn't have to sit down and explain that he/she just wants out.

Alex, you aren't 'throwing in the towel'. You are standing up for yourself. You've been through so much in just the last few years. You really don't need any more grief, and if this was an exit affair, that's what you'll end up with - because he'll do it again.

Aside from the affair, what does he say he wants? Or is he only saying he 'understands' why you want to leave? I'd be very curious where his head is relating to that question - does he want to R, or is he also 'done'

Your posts are so filled with pain Alex. I feel like your WH is manipulating you, saying he understands why you want to end things, leaving you to either not end things and hope it doesn't happen again, or end them wondering, since he's being so nice and understanding, if you made a mistake because THIS time may be the last time. He's putting it all on you, when it should be all on him.

Alex, do you really want him, after all he's done, or is this such a big change that fear of the unknown is really holding you back. That fear is very normal, and many people do stay because of it. A major change after nearly a quarter of a century is really a big step.

I think you really need to see where his head is, and what he is willing to do to if you stay together. Is he willing to do the real work this time, or is he being sad and 'letting go' because that's what he really wants but doesn't have the strength to say that?

It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1878 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
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Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Omg Alex reading your posts is like everything I feel too.. About mine so called partner.. He says loves me best thing since sliced bread etc I'm his world things were excellent as far as I was concerned marriage on cards etc etc and yet this is the 6 th time I'm having to listen to his I don't know whys!!! We are gojng through counicllling but I don't know whether it's gonna work , I like you don't seem to have the strength I need to finally say get lost though on one hand want to so badly.. I'm too sympathetic feeling sorry etc feel like a walking doormat!! I need to work things out and I hole you do to these posts really help :)

Posts: 23 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: England
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Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I'm a good person but I feel so guilt ridden to end this and see how bad he is hurting and at the same time...

Just one simple question.

When does it STOP being all about him?

Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1710 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
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Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello AlexFL. I am where you are. I am so conflicted and confused. You have commented on my posts before and I so appreciated your concern. I thought I was on the road to recovery. I had kicked him out and filed for divorce immediately. He contacted me daily begging for forgiveness, telling me that he will do anything to be the husband that I want..Blah blah blah. You see, he owns a company and travels extensively - for business but many trips are for pleasure, like the one where the ONS happened. After close to 2 weeks of my having no contact with him, I sent him a long email of questions that I wanted answers to. (I posted them on my page on this site) He skirts around the answers. 2 weeks after being kicked out, I come home from work and his car is in the driveway. False promises are given to me about how he is going to change. Within less than 2 days back at the house, By the way, I never told him he was back in my life, he is telling me that HE has suffered enough and we need to move on to heal our relationship. He does not want to talk about IT anymore, and that the past can't be changed and basically his message is..forget about it and move on. I then ask him how he is going to be the husband that I want. He tells me that he is who he is and he likes to be around people all the time . If I want to come with him. I can come with him. Really, that's it?? My husband is a manipulator, too. You and I have to be strong. WE DON'T DESERVE this kind of treatment from the men who are supposed to love us. Lies, Cheating WE SHOULD NOT STAND FOR THIS. I see so much of my situation in your story its astounding. Today I am so angry I can't think straight. I just want to end everything. I don't know if I even want to live anymore (although I wouldn't do anything drastic). I was the perfect wife and mother, We have terrific girls, I kept a nice house all while working full time as a teacher. But I guess just not exciting enough for my H. He is a selfish manipulator and now all of a sudden, he is making time for our almost adult and adult daughters, trying to win them over to his camp. I hope they see through his facade. I won't lower myself to badmouth him to my girls. They know what happened and what he did. AlexFL - stay strong. Respect yourself. That is what I am trying to say to myself as well.

Me - BW - 59
Him - WH - 59
35 yrs - 2 daughters 17, 21
DDay - 10-15-13
ONS - 9-20-13 and probably YEARS of gaslighting - signs were there.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
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Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just read this whole thread, and feel your uncertainty about what to do. It is so hard, but I think you're getting there with what you need to do.
My WH and I have also been together for a long time since we were young, and many people have commented that they wished their marriage could be like ours. When things were good, they were really good. Or were they?
I also hesitated to tell people about what was going on in order to protect him, but I found that doing that only isolated me from people who could support me. I'm not telling everyone, but a few people who I can trust are really helping me a lot.
I sympathize with your not wanting to be a police officer either. I am done with that myself.
I think you're doing a good job of figuring out what you need. Let him figure his own business out. Stick with it!

I've seen enough.

D-Day: Too many in 17 years of marriage. LAST time 10/17/2013.

Posts: 122 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: A little bit closer to Reality
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Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, November 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These posts see what keep me sane (or just not as crazy). We tried to talk today. He said if this is over he is ready to walk away from the business and let it all go away. He said in trying to take away everything he has worked for all his life. He said I am his purpose of working long hours to provide a nice lifestyle for me and the kids and without that motivation he doesn't need to be there anymore. Easier said then done. It would be sad for me to see everything WE worked for go away. It's too hard to explain but the business is tied to other investments and he is right, if he walks they all go away but he could still make $$ for himself.

All I understand from this conversation is basically - the punishment doesn't fit the crime....he didn't say that. And he has expressed complete sorrow but it makes me question if I'm being ridiculous.

We have great kids, good business, good investments, a nice home.... Do I want to totally disrupt everything and everyone cause he had another ONS. Do I believe him when he says he is really going to work on it. He is do mad/hurt at me because when I caught him every rotten thing he has ever done spewed from the inner depths of the darkest place inside me and I just kept telling him what a horrible person he was for days, weeks now.

He said that must be how I really feel. And I told him of course I'm going to immediately think of all the bad-- it's a defense to convince myself he's such an ass rather than call to pieces. He doesn't get it.

I don't even know how many days it's been since I confronted him.... I don't even know what I'm doing. I understand why people remain single. Why would any one opt into this nightmare -- why would I not run as far as I can... How do u measure the good vs bad. How can I know that he always thought the world of me and made me feel so special and also know that he's a liar and a cheater.

He said today, "some of the things you've said about me are horrible and they aren't about the acts I've committed but about my character. I can't change my character so I know I must let this end so you can find happiness" Is it reverse psychology? Is it manipulation or is this his quiet way of saying I've been cheating on u more times then u know and I don't want to cause you anymore pain?

It's hard to talk to him right now cause he is terribly sensitive. His eyes are filled with tears 24 hours a day.

I sometimes just want to freeze the world so I can breathe and remain still for a minute, so I can digest what's happened without any other influences. Thank you for reading my rambling posts. I sound terribly dramatic and I apologize if there are typos I do not reread or of never hit send.

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Alex sounds terrible what you h is doing to you ,, sounds like he's very manipulative and is trying to make you feel guilty using the business failure on you and basically saying if you leave him the business will fail that's terrible that's really annoyed me ! .. Damn these men ... I know you love him you had your good times as I have mine a I'm going through same as you though no financial ties.. He cannot lay this shit at your door!! If he gives up the business and doesn't carry it on for the families sake he's not prepared to support you it should come from him not laid at you.. , even if you decided not to take him back he should still provide for you and your family!!
He's trying every trick in the book by the sounds of it Hun ... I'm struggling with mine too so I know it's hard mine was my world he said I was his .. 6 times I've found him sneaking about .. I'm still in limbo chin up wee here to support you .. Sending love and strength to you x

Posts: 23 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: England
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Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do u forgive and try again when you did forgive before and before and before.

Honest and truly I don't think I could. Once was enough for me. Then again I didn't think I'd be doing this either, so never say never.

If he won't stop doing this you have 2 choices. You can either decide to live with it or decide to split up.

Bc unfortunately his actions suggest that he is not going to stop.

I will cross my fingers that he sees the light.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1076 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And he has expressed complete sorrow but it makes me question if I'm being ridiculous.

Ridiculous? You aren't disrupting anything. He did. He's cheated again and again and again. You deserve better. His crocodile tears are nothing but manipulation. He's been saying for a week how 'he needs to just let you go if that's what you want'. Boo fucking whoo. He's manipulating you, and now he's doing it financially by saying that 'without you I have nothing to work for.' Yeah, but you couldn't keep it in your pants for me even though you know how it just crushes me. Screw him.

You tell him that he does have something to work for - it's called child support. Besides, if you worked there too, you can just take it over, and you make the money. You do NOT need him, for anything.

He's manipulating you. If he really means he needs to 'let you go'. then he should leave, and NOW. He doesn't mean it. He's trying to make you believe he's just so sad and hurt. HE'S HURT? So, he keeps screwing other women. Does that mean he doesn't love you? Of course you said horrible things to him. You've been hurt repeatedly.

I don't know your H, but I hate him. I hate that he's manipulating you, and trying to make you the bad guy. I hate that he has you wondering if you shouldn't be upset. I hate that he's making this about how you feel about him, and not about him being a serial cheater. He's scum, plain and simple, and he knows how to get to you.

If you're going to let him stay, then make him sign a post nup. Make him turn the business over to you 100% if he is unfaithful from the date of him signing the agreement forward. Then you'll see how serious he is about his sorrow and not wanting the business if he doesn't have you.

Your husband is a pile of shit and he's playing with your mind. He has you questioning your own value, and he's blaming you.

I'm sorry - but that's what's happening.

It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1878 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
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Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you hit the nail on the head. He does love me and he is sorry but this has fine to manipulation. You're right if he has nothing to work for then he should just sign everything over to me. I'm going to keep that in my back pocket and use it during one of his next sessions where he tells me "he feels like he doesn't belong here, and I don't care for him, and he has nothing without me". He was just here a minute ago and left cause it felt too hard to be here and then came back and sat on the couch. He was upset cause I was on computer when he came in and didn't rush out to say hello (it was probably a full minute he waited). Kids were busy on their electronics do I understand he feels like he is forgotten but when I suggested he take them somewhere or even one of them somewhere he said he can't "keep if together" long enough to do that. I said "well I've had my moments and didn't have the privilege of running off in my self pity".

He said I just don't show that I care at all. I said a person doesn't have to be crying on the closet floor (like I did many times) and screaming, and self loathing to show they care. I said I feel bad he is hurting but nothing has changed. No effort has been made to try and figure out why this keeps happening. It's not my fault. I get hit on all the time (well not all the time) but it doesn't make me arrange secret ONS times for my who to be boosted. A nice compliment makes me feel good.
he was questioning my FB and friends on Facebook. I just said if someone friend requests me I accept. I have never been inappropriate on FB and I am confident in that. I'm sure he'd want me to get rid of it if we R.

It's not that I don't care. I just feel like enough is enough. I'm really trying to be strong and just not give into his trigger arguments. I'm trying. I still do miss him bc we were together 24 years and we early were apart. It's still like I am missing something everyday. I d k I'm just not ready to make any decisions completely. I don't feel like I should have to.

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AlexFL, I just read a different post of yours. Your H tried to go screw someone else on your birthday. YOUR BIRTHDAY. This guy is a piece of work. He took you out early so he could leave you and go have sex. PILE OF SHIT.

He isn't going to let any business go. He's saying that to make you feel how 'sorry he is'. Bullshit.

Set up visitation with the kids, tell him when to come get them, and start behaving like he's gone, and R is off the table. Right now he knows he's still in your head. See how he behaves when he knows you're moving on and making plans for this sham of a marriage he's in to be done. He'll change. He'll either get some real help instead of playing his manipulation games, or his true colors will show and you'll have all the answers you need.

He is just despicable. He really is something else.

It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1878 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
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Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, November 2nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Painfulpast - I love your posts. I need to hear it !!!

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've not been texting. Only answering him if he asks a question.

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for you.. Mines the same expecting me to jump when he walks through door sod that!! He gotta do some serious work to win me back and yours needs to do the same if you decide that's what you want! mine was texting some girl a day after my birthday to say how sexy she looked bloody joker!! Each time I'm getting stronger and he knows it ok gonna take me some time to finally know what I want but at this moment I feel more in control and feels good.. He needs to show you he aces for you not the other way round he needs councilling if he's not willing id say no future you can not live like this .. He's done it too many times as has mine.. We are in councilling .. He tried this I can't live without you crap .. I just say well your the idiot that threw it away your loss .. I tell him don't think I can't do the things he's been doing only better .. Shuts him up!! Though I wouldn't as loved the bones off him.. Hence I say loved ,.. Gonna take a long time to get that back if ever!! Yeh I love him but not half as much as I did.. I know exactly how you feel I'm going through same shit .. Bet with everyone's help I'm sure we can get through this .. Sending hugs and best wishes for the future .. X

Posts: 23 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: England
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Default  Posted: 7:04 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's amazing to hear that other people are going through the exact same thing ---even the same conversations, same excuses etc.

I would like to say to him - "how about we get back together and we agree that I can lie to him and go screw random people whenever I'm feeling bad about myself"(I wouldn't)--- of course he would say "he doesn't want to live like that" -- and then I would say "well that's what your asking me to do for you, live with knowing that nothing has changed and these behaviors will continue"

I am a forgiver. Not really a grudge holder however if I've forgiven you before for the sand thing and you repeatedly do the same thing to me-- a wall goes up, all those old hurts come to the forefront and I remember every shitty thing you've ever done.

He says he can't deal with me attacking his character everytime we talk-- so fix your F'ed up character. I'm not doing it for you.

I need to take a minute to breathe. I don't want to start the day with this hostility.

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, November 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My mood has been pretty level but it worries me a little. I still feel like I'm not really allowing myself to feel anything. Sure I get sad, angry etc but I've managed to push it down. I feel very numb. He has been very sensitive when I speak to him. He takes ownership if his bad choices but I don't feel like anything has been really done to change his behavior in the future.

He says he truly realizes what he has done. He seems very frustrated because I haven't been begging him to come back home. Part of me doesn't even feel like this is me it my life. Like I'm an observer.

I'm so tired. I have been keeping up appearances and going to the gym but this has made me feel like nothing is worth it. I am so disappointed in the entire human race at this point all I can do is smile cause if not I'd cry.

I feel like my emotions have flat lined

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 9:58 PM, November 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He seems very frustrated because I haven't been begging him to come back home.

He expected you to, which is why he was fine cheating again. Do NOT back down Alex. You can do this. You've been doing great so far. Who cares if he's frustrated. It's a lot better than the way he's left you, right? He caused this, not you. If you had done as expected and just accepted his apology, he'd be doing it again already!!

It was your birthday Alex!!! This pig was taking you out early so he could get to his date!! Do NOT forget that!!

You will feel better in time. You will, but it will take time to heal. You are probably better doing NC as best you can with him. He wants to be in your head, and you need him out. If it isn't about the kids, it isn't important.

Stay strong. You don't need a cheater in your life, making you feel like this. You just don't.

It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1878 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
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Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tonight was very difficult. He showed up at an outting unannounced. Thought it would be a good place to try and start putting things behind us-- except he was mad that I was 30 minutes late meeting him (although I didn't know he was even coming so how can I be late) and then he also accused me of checking out someone else.

I am in a bad place. There's nothing that looks like the right option. R looks too hard and no guarantee it will work and D seems too crazy and possibly explosive. I have no idea what I'm doing. I feel like a complete loser, scared of my own shadow.

Posts: 146 | Registered: Oct 2013
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Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, November 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This guy is pulling your strings like a master puppeteer. And you are letting him.

He is a mega-manipulator and he needs to grow the fuck up.

He takes ownership if his bad choices

Saying that he's sorry and walking around like a sap and being *too sad* to hang out with his NOT taking ownership. The guy is playing Eeyore. "Oh, poor me. Alex keeps beating me up about what a bad guy I am and it's hurting my feelings. I mean I said I was sorry." That ain't ownership.

He showed up at an outting unannounced. Thought it would be a good place to try and start putting things behind us

Unilateral thinking. He's going to *fix* it - and when you don't react in the way that the scenario played out in his head as he was hatching his grand plan.....there's going to be hell to pay -- as you found out. This dumbass has been watching too many movies. He expected you to *swoon* in his presence -- when the reality of the situation is that he *crashed* your f'n party, without notice, demanded attention, and threw tantrums when he didn't get it.

So Painfulpast brought up (twice) the issue of what happened on your birthday......and you haven't acknowledged it. And I'm not saying that you HAVE to....what I'm saying is that is seems that you are trying to *push down* your own feelings about all of this shit that he has pulled and is pulling because you are *trying* to make-this-work. I am going to tell you to Stop.It! STOP being so f'n nice because it's not going to accomplish what you are hoping to accomplish.

Stop worrying about this *forgiveness* stuff right now. Seriously. You can forgive him for whatever you want to, but you give that forgiveness as a way of setting that load down and putting it in your rear-view mirror so that you can move forward. You can forgive people that have hurt you but that doesn't mean that if they are toxic, fucked-up people that they have to remain a part of your life. It means that you have recognized that person to be an albatross around your neck who is no longer a *positive* in your life and you need to cast the albatross off to move forward in a healthy way. "*You* go do your toxic thing. I'll do my healthy thing. No harm, no foul. Grace, grace. No hard feelings."

Just in case you're wondering -- I dealt with a guy like your WH. For way too long. I wasted about 3 years of my life 'waiting' for him to *get it*. He never did and he never will. If anything, my *forgiving* nature just made it 1000X worse.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

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