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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Should this be enough for me?
jost1125
♀ Member
Member # 38710
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last night I asked WBF to read Alyssamd's post about dealing with triggers (in wayward forum). After he read it he asked me what I thought when I read it and I said that it made me wonder if he ever had triggers. He said there was nothing that he could specifically tell me lately that has brought it up. He said that lately it's constant, it doesn't go away. I said I guess it's not that I need to know the exact things that bring it up, more that it is on his mind and how it makes him feel, otherwise when he says nothing I feel like he is just "past it" and that I am the only one suffering by myself.
He said that he feels bad about all the pain he's caused me. While I do appreciate this, for some reason, that doesn't seem like enough. He has said countless times over the years that nothing is ever good enough for me, so I'm wondering if that is true. I feel like there should be more than just feeling bad about the pain that I am in. If I wasn't in pain, would he even regret what he's done? I feel like he should be telling me how wonderful I am and how much of an idiot he was for not seeing it all these years, for taking me for granted, for falling for some fake lie of a relationship with someone else, for being able to just give up on us. I feel like he should be feeling some internal struggle about how he had no integrity or morals to do what he did.
I don't know, is he right? Is nothing ever good enough for me? Should I just be happy that he feels bad for causing me this pain? What thoughts do other waywards struggle with-is it mostly about the pain they've inflicted on their SO? From reading here I've gotten the impression that there's more to it than that.


Me (BGF) 35yr
Him (WBF) 32yr
Children: 14yr (mine)
Dday #1 (admitted to EA) Sept. 29, 2012
Dday #2 (admitted is was PA) Oct. 1, 2012

Posts: 120 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Midwest
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He may not like discussing it, or he may not really know that you want his thoughts on him during the A. He read about triggers, and he says he isn't having individual triggers. Maybe he thinks he answered you?

I would ask again, but ask him how he feels about him after the A, and how he views the him that was there during the A. See if there are more answers.

Many times, from what my fWH tells me, a WS doesn't think their pain counts as it was self inflicted, and the BS has much more of a right to pain. Perhaps he's feeling that way?

Just a thought. I may not be on target. Regardless of the answer, I am sorry you're hurting today.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1888 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He said that he feels bad about all the pain he's caused me. While I do appreciate this, for some reason, that doesn't seem like enough.

Hope I'm not reading something that isn't here - if I am I'm sorry. Are you upset he's not upset he DID the things - as in separate from the fact that he hurt you? Like for me this was huge. WH was upset I was in pain but not so much having issues with what he did - just the acts, by themselves, not what they did to me. I needed to know the things bothered HIM because he saw how wrong it all was. Am I close?


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
rbf1234
♀ Member
Member # 39471
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too feel he should me telling me he was an idiot for not seeing how wonderful I was/am. Because its not just about my WH finally doing the right thing- I want him to feel passionately about me-- the way I felt about him and the way that unbeknownst to me, was inrequited. And for that to happen be does need to reconsider his old ways of thinking as idiocy.

Posts: 69 | Registered: Jun 2013
jost1125
♀ Member
Member # 38710
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sodamnlost-I think maybe you are pretty close to what I mean. He's never said anything about anything seperate from hurting me. Just that he's sorry I'm hurting and that he caused my pain. I guess that is it-I want him to have issues with what he did-the acts, by themselves, seperate from hurting me. So you said this was big for you-what did you, or your H, do to help?


Me (BGF) 35yr
Him (WBF) 32yr
Children: 14yr (mine)
Dday #1 (admitted to EA) Sept. 29, 2012
Dday #2 (admitted is was PA) Oct. 1, 2012

Posts: 120 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Midwest
jost1125
♀ Member
Member # 38710
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

painfulpast-I think you have something there too, I have asked him about how he felt then and now, about himself, me, and OW, but didn't really get much. I'll have to try again.

rbf-exactly right, I want him to feel passionately (like I thought he did before) about me, and to know that the "old him" was an idiot.

Nice to know it's not just me, thanks everybody


Me (BGF) 35yr
Him (WBF) 32yr
Children: 14yr (mine)
Dday #1 (admitted to EA) Sept. 29, 2012
Dday #2 (admitted is was PA) Oct. 1, 2012

Posts: 120 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Midwest
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want him to have issues with what he did-the acts, by themselves, seperate from hurting me. So you said this was big for you-what did you, or your H, do to help?

For my WH - it is all about denial. He can admit the things he has done without feeling them. He has fought tooth and nail NOT to feel what he did. There is NOT ONE THING *I* can do on this. It's all on him. He has made some progress in writing out the affair. It's a long process and he has to write things several times before he REALLY feels it. Before and during WH's affair, he shut down in many ways emotionally. Before he was more emotional than me even. It's like he has to re-train his brain to even feel, it's sad really when you knew who he was before. I always called him (with total love) my "chick with a dick" LOL! Without him feeling it though, there is no remorse. It's something your WH has to decide to do on his own sadly.

I know how much it hurts. ((((HUGS))))


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
Patchy
♀ Member
Member # 39228
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Someone posted something hat made me go "hmmmm" here not to long ago. It was about her WH saying "all" the various things he was sorry for. Specifically. Like your BF he had repeatedly said he was sorry for hurting her, but not all the different things he did or didn't do that caused her pain. And when he finally did, what a difference that made to the WS. I think it happened during counseling in their case and was a big moment for their recovery.


Me BS 44
Him FWS 45
Married 23 Years
DDay 1 July 2012
DDay 2 Christmas Day 2013 same woman
EA with kissing, very strong bond and talk of leaving spouses for each other.

Posts: 93 | Registered: May 2013
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think this might be my problem too. He repeats the same packaged apology but never says what he was sorry for. When I press him for what, why or how he starts over by saying "what I did was wrong and I'm sorry I hurt you". He has this weird way of apologizing without really accepting responsibility for it. He says he's sorry for hurting me and he was wrong but his intent behind it was innocent. WTF? I can't deal with it anymore. I told him to go stay at a hotel.

Posts: 643 | Registered: Jul 2013
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, November 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think this might be my problem too. He repeats the same packaged apology but never says what he was sorry for. When I press him for what, why or how he starts over by saying "what I did was wrong and I'm sorry I hurt you". He has this weird way of apologizing without really accepting responsibility for it. He says he's sorry for hurting me and he was wrong but his intent behind it was innocent. WTF? I can't deal with it anymore. I told him to go stay at a hotel.

Posts: 643 | Registered: Jul 2013
jost1125
♀ Member
Member # 38710
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scubachick-I totally get it, I even wrote out a list of all of the things that I want an apology for, not just "everything". He read it and then said that he is sorry for everything that I wrote! That was still a blanket apology that didn't really do it for me. I thought maybe he'd keep that list and maybe mention specific things once in a while, but no, not happening. I don't even know what happened to the list.

I was thinking last night as I was trying to fall asleep about what rbf said about wanting WS to feel passionately about her again-I think that's one of my big issues (besides the physical part, knowing that he actually "wanted" someone else-that's huge). What I was thinking was that it upsets me so much because I always thought he really loved me more than he could ever love anyone else. Turns out I was wrong and it's devestating. A while ago he said that he realized that he was emotionally unavailable before and that he wasn't "good partner" material. So now I'm thinking, maybe he did love me as much as he could love anyone, it wasn't what I consider to be real love, but maybe he just wasn't capable of "real" love at the time. Now, after this cataclysmic time in our lives, I want to make sure that he is capable of more. That he is capable of loving me more than he loves himself. That he loves me enough that this will never happen again. I feel like in order to "move on" I need to know this stuff, and in order to know this I need him to open up to me about how he felt pre-A, and how that is different from now, and how disgusted he is with himself for how he was then and for him to figure out why he was the way he was, and for him to know how and why that's changed. Does this make any sense to anyone besides me?
This is different from what I had originally posted-in my initial post I meant more about the physical things that he did (after over a year I still cannot fathom how he could want someone else physically-how he could kiss and touch someone else, how he could say yes, that he wanted to go to her bedroom, how he could actually have sex with someone who was practically a stranger, how he could keep going back for more, how he could face me when he got home, all of it), which is still a huge issue, but the love part is still always nagging in the back of my head.


Me (BGF) 35yr
Him (WBF) 32yr
Children: 14yr (mine)
Dday #1 (admitted to EA) Sept. 29, 2012
Dday #2 (admitted is was PA) Oct. 1, 2012

Posts: 120 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Midwest
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jost1125,

What you are saying makes perfect sense to me. I keep telling him that he took my special and gave it to her...i use to feel like I was special in his eyes and to him. Like we shared things between each other that he had never shared with anyone else. I was the keeper of his deepest darkest secrets. I had his trust and he had mine. He took all these things from me and gave them to her. Suddenly she was the keeper of his secrets...they created and shared new secrets and went out of their way to mislead me. It use to be me and him against the world but it became him and her against me. I depended on him to protect me from harm and to look out for my best interests. And he did until she came along. Then he purposely puts me in harms way just so he could be with her. He gave my special to her. He doesn't get that and gets so offended when I tell him that. Can you relate to anything I just described? Sometimes I have trouble expressing myself in a way that makes sense to other people.


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jul 2013
jost1125
♀ Member
Member # 38710
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally understand what you are saying scubachick! I feel the exact same way! I think you expressed yourself perfectly. Every time I try to explain things like this to WBF, he never understands either. I don't know what he could do about it if he did understand though? What could he possibly say to make it better? It probably would help a bit if he told me what they talked about, what he shared with her, but he says he doesn't really remember what they talked about, that she mostly did the talking. I try to make myself believe that I still know more about him than she does. Whenever I think of something from his past, from OUR past, I think to myself-she probably doesn't know about that. It helps a little, not much though. It was still him and her against me, and that shit hurts like hell.


Me (BGF) 35yr
Him (WBF) 32yr
Children: 14yr (mine)
Dday #1 (admitted to EA) Sept. 29, 2012
Dday #2 (admitted is was PA) Oct. 1, 2012

Posts: 120 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Midwest
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For my WH - it is all about denial. He can admit the things he has done without feeling them. He has fought tooth and nail NOT to feel what he did. There is NOT ONE THING *I* can do on this. It's all on him. He has made some progress in writing out the affair. It's a long process and he has to write things several times before he REALLY feels it. Before and during WH's affair, he shut down in many ways emotionally. Before he was more emotional than me even. It's like he has to re-train his brain to even feel, it's sad really when you knew who he was before. I always called him (with total love) my "chick with a dick" LOL! Without him feeling it though, there is no remorse. It's something your WH has to decide to do on his own sadly.

I totally identified with the above post. It has taken A LONG TIME for my WH to feel his actions. I would say that his most recent breakthroughs have only occurred recently and we are 1 1/2 years out from Dday.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 6:30 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He doesn't get that and gets so offended when I tell him that.

Scubachick he gets offended because YOU are hitting close to home for him. They know what they did. It seems He does get it because you got under his skin.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Topic Posts: 15

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