Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Dragonfly111502 (45331)

General Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Can you still have sex with WS while going 180?
Kierst13
♀ Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think if you are not asking him to talk about the difficult issues, being friendly and happy when you do answer him and then you also have sex; he is loving life. All the benefits and none of the discomfort.


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
justjim
♂ Member
Member # 41150
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow.
Now I am confused about 180.

Just a few days ago I posted about something that came up in "casual conversation" with my WW, and was told that there should have been no conversation in the first place.

Now there is a debate over whether SEX is OK?

Color me confused.


Follow your BRAIN.
Your HEART is stupid as shit.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2013
trudi42
♀ New Member
Member # 40608
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So you cant have a casual conversation without breaking your 180??? Whats the point of all the rules of the 180. If you are not going to talk to each other at all then surely that is called ending it not 180.....

I am confused too. I just thought it was a state of mind not sending your WS to Coventry!


Me: BW (41)
Him: WH (42)
D Day: 22/07/13
~Somewhere between S and R

Posts: 37 | Registered: Sep 2013
trudi42
♀ New Member
Member # 40608
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also sex is a two way street, it is not just about giving it to them. They are giving it to you......unless you are truly in S, then is it really that bad?? Can it not bring a little sunshine on an otherwise cloudy day?


Me: BW (41)
Him: WH (42)
D Day: 22/07/13
~Somewhere between S and R

Posts: 37 | Registered: Sep 2013
maddmurph
♂ Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So if you are moving toward R, then you should stop the 180?


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
justjim
♂ Member
Member # 41150
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No casual, or any kind, of conversation with WW. Listen to her, but don't converse. Simple responses. "Oh" "Hmm" "Okay" thats it.

Trudi, the above is a direct quote to me in my other thread.

I have been being a bit of an ass around here the last few days in trying to do this thing correctly.

Am I doing it wrong?


Follow your BRAIN.
Your HEART is stupid as shit.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2013
trudi42
♀ New Member
Member # 40608
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So if you are moving toward R, then you should stop the 180?
I don't know if I am or not which is my problem at the moment. Its more a case of I don't know if my WH is in the right place for R yet. He thinks he is but to be honest he is a bit of a mess!!

Justjim - I have no idea if you are doing the 180 right or not and I am in no position to advise but IMO if it feels right keep doing it. If it doesn't then adjust it...after all its not the 10 commandments!


Me: BW (41)
Him: WH (42)
D Day: 22/07/13
~Somewhere between S and R

Posts: 37 | Registered: Sep 2013
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been being a bit of an ass around here the last few days in trying to do this thing correctly.

For me anyway the 180 had very little to do with my WW. It was about me. I made a calendar of the things I was responsible for: kids, house, work. Then rest of the time time I filled up with things for me. Started a new sport, made nights out with friends, went for long walks to think about what I wanted out of time on the planet. I really tried to put my W out of my mind. I worked on what I wanted, outside of my M. To be frank at that point I didn't love my W, didn't know if I wanted to be M'd to her and was looking at my options.

At the same time I had given my W a list. She needed to be NC, find an IC and basically get her shit straight. Then she needed to explain it to me. I gave her time. I took that same time for me.

I wanted sex. I was M'd to her. I didn't want to look out side of our M for it. She could both in deed and in word understand that I was not 'loving' her. I was nailing her. Bottom line. It's very much OK if that it not you, but its me and that is how I worked it out.

Listen, the 180 is what you want it to be. If you are looking for an instruction manual on how to do things it going to be rough row. On some level its about figuring out what you want and doing it - without being an ass.

No conversations? That is just not part of my values. My W, even after cheating deserved (because I would want it) to know what I was doing, where I was emotionally with her and what I wanted from her. She was free to leave at any point.

She chose to leave the M. She needed to chose to come back. Until she did, not just in words but in deeds as well, I was not going to waste one more minute worrying about her stupid antics. It was always in my mind, but I could not do shit about what "she" want or would do. So I did my thing. That is the 180 if you ask me. Doing your thing. If you don't know what that is I would say that is part of the problem. Find out.

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
trudi42
♀ New Member
Member # 40608
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No conversations? That is just not part of my values

I totally agree with this. Also when you have kids in the house how can you expect them to listen to their parents just going "Oh" and "hmm" to each other. That's just messed up in my opinion. I need to wait for my WH to want to do what I need him to do or pack his shit for good... Whilst I feel its unfair that I have to wait I think that's inevitable. In the meantime I am taking my interpretation of the 180 (which is pretty much to stop needing him)and like you wert I don't want to look outside my marriage to satisfy my own needs so don't intend to deprive myself.

This site is amazing...I really don't know what I would have done without you all! x


Me: BW (41)
Him: WH (42)
D Day: 22/07/13
~Somewhere between S and R

Posts: 37 | Registered: Sep 2013
justjim
♂ Member
Member # 41150
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you don't know what that is I would say that is part of the problem.

I'm about 5 weeks in to this thing. Been trying to do 180 for about 8 days. I'll be the first to admit that it goes against everything my instincts tell me to do.

I'm just trying to figure out some mixed messages in here, is all.


Follow your BRAIN.
Your HEART is stupid as shit.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2013
trudi42
♀ New Member
Member # 40608
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

justjim - Me too. I think you should use the 180 as a guide only. Not a manual. We are not machines and surely we should trust our instincts?

That's my take on it anyway - I literally pick out the parts I am comfortable with and think will make me feel good.


Me: BW (41)
Him: WH (42)
D Day: 22/07/13
~Somewhere between S and R

Posts: 37 | Registered: Sep 2013
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think a lot of people confuse what the idea of 180 is an what it is supposed to do.

It is not a weapon of manipulation, and it is not for the BS to use to get the WS to come back.

It is intended for the BS to use to find their strength again, and get strong. To have no more pain and hurt form the WS. It is meant to keep communication at a minimum so the WS can't hurt you more. So conversations about kids, finances, and logistics are acceptable, but should be strictly kept to that.

More than that basic idea there are a lot of different ways to go about it. But I think the most effective when you have a very foggy spouse is to clearly outline your expectations of what you expect from the WS to start R. What you demand, and then clearly stating that in the meantime they are on their own, because you cannot/will not tolerate any more disrespect, pain and hurt.

So to answer the sex question, I would say absolutely NOT no it is not ok to have sex with WS while implementing 180. I also think that Madmurph missed a bit when he stated that ifyou are trying to R to stop 180. I disagree, if you want to R, and have a foggy spouse, or a spouse that contninues to lie, break NC, or is not commited to the terms of R then stay 180, otherwise you are going to get hurt again, and again.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8705 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
maddmurph
♂ Member
Member # 40940
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also think that Madmurph missed a bit when he stated that ifyou are trying to R to stop 180. I disagree, if you want to R, and have a foggy spouse, or a spouse that contninues to lie, break NC, or is not commited to the terms of R then stay 180, otherwise you are going to get hurt again, and again.

Sorry I was asking not stating, cause I'm confused as to when to let up on the 180. I'm seeing commitment so I'm easing up, but ready to go right back to it.


Me - BS, 33
Her - WW, 33
DS 7, DD 3

Posts: 129 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: OH
Heartbroken2013
♀ Member
Member # 39722
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I ask ...

Does MC agree with the 180!

Surely you should only be doing 180 if you plan to leave. If what people are saying its to get YOU strong, get you used to being without your H or W ... then that means your ready to leave!

For me personally, I could NOT live in a house where mum and dad hardly speak to each other, who don't sit at the same table while eating a family meal - its making the kids life a right misery if their parents are not going to speak with each other.

I understand partly what the 180 is all about, BUT if it has an adverse effect on the other people living in your household, I wouldn't do it!

Personally, I am in R with my H. For the last year he has shown me how sorry he is and how much he wants this to work ... how on EARTH are you ever going to get to 'R' if YOU are NOT willing to talk to your h/w about it.

I wouldn't want my children brought up in a home with such an atmosphere.

180 - not for me im sorry!


Me & Hubby = aged 46
Together 16 years
Married 9 years
He had 1 yr EA in chat room then 6mths EA phone/texting with same woman.
Cyber sexed with many OW in chat room for at least 1 year.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: UK
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

justjim - Me too. I think you should use the 180 as a guide only. Not a manual. We are not machines and surely we should trust our instincts?
That's my take on it anyway - I literally pick out the parts I am comfortable with and think will make me feel good.

See I think the 180 can be modified to an extent to suit the situation. In your case, you and your WH are in a sort of semi-R, still feeling each other out and not committed. For me, I look at the 180 as a tool that can be modified to suit the sitch.

For instance, when I first confronted my fWW, she stopped her affair but was on the fence as to whether or not we should R, because she felt so much shame and felt like she didn't deserve to be married. I asked her to leave the house and for two months I did a hard 180. I rarely saw her and when I did ,I was pleasant but emotionally detached like the 180 says to be. I began working out like a fiend and doing all the self-improvement parts of the 180 to keep myself healthy and mentally focused.

Since last August we have been in R and I stopped all the parts of the 180 that deal with emotional detachment, BUT I continue to follow the steps that deal with personal improvement and emotional independence.

So what I'm doing now is sort of a modified "soft 180", and until my fWW and I are completely on the same page with everything, I will continue to be "one foot out the door" so to speak.


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Personally, I am in R with my H. For the last year he has shown me how sorry he is and how much he wants this to work ... how on EARTH are you ever going to get to 'R' if YOU are NOT willing to talk to your h/w about it.

If this is the case then no, you should not be doing the 180; except, as I said above, the self improvement parts.

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 10:55 AM, November 4th (Monday)]


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my opinion only:

What's the 180?

Imagine you are now special forces ... in Crises Mode after the world has imploded.

Stop. Look. Listen. Take a critical, UNemotional, realistic stock of the situation. Careful not to sit in one spot for too long with a target on you back. Protect yourself (and your children). Gather strength. Then MOVE FORWARD.

Stop (the begging, crying, pleading). You will not make the best decision from a place of fear or abandonment.
Look at the WS actions: Are they agreeing to NC and transparency ... or looking for a way to have both an AP and a M?
Listen to their words. ILYBILWY? Sorry, you're partner doesn't love you.

The 180 is not a permanent lifestyle.
YOU must evaluate your options, based on your spouse's intentions, then CHOOSE the best course of action for you; don't forget to keep moving forward:

Choices seem to be:
*Reconciliation
*Divorce and NC (that's necessary for detachment)
*Not Divorcing=Limbo=Ambivalence. Perhaps a wise move for the first 6 months after Dday, but the back and forth, up and down rollercoaster will deplete your emotional reserves.

Remember, you only have control over your own actions and your own future. Your WS must make his/her own decision to re-commit, or leave the M.

D.E.T.A.C.H.

Don't
Even
Think
About
Changing
Him / Her

ETA: Sex? When your body is in fight-or-flight mode, sex is not an option. You don't stop to fuck if there's a lion (or OP) stalking you and stealing your safety and security. If you've got time for recreational sex, then IMHO you've got enough time to chart the direction of you future life -- with or without your partner.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 12:12 PM, November 4th (Monday)]


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
doggiediva
♀ Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think it seems like you are really 180ing him...It's not something you automatically feel you have to do after a D -day..

If it is still early on since D day, you guys may be just feeling each other out.(excuse the pun)

180 is used to protect yourself and to focus on your needs in a given situation and many times it is instinctual behavior...

Imagine that you have a relative who constantly demeans you or one of your kiddo's..

What would you be feeling inside?

How would you behave when interacting with this relative?

Most likely your instinct would be to have as little as possible to do with him or her KWIM?

If you are feeling anger because you are being TT'd, gaslighted, minimized and disrespected by your WH,chances are you are not gonna want to speak to your WH, have sex with him or go anywhere with him/ do anything for him..

Plenty of people have as little to do with their WS's (as is possible) while still living with said WS because they are biding their time until S or D..

If a couple is in 180 mode,and the kiddos are still at home, they arrange their schedules so that only one parent is in the house with the kiddos at any given time, especially during the waking hours..

I think it is okay to be in limbo without doing a 180 as long as your WH is showing progress that you are satisfied with...

ETA, If I were you, I would still be asking him questions about the A and cheating and put his feet to the fire, even if it is uncomfortable for him or you...

From reading your post it seems like you are in limbo and not ready to commit to R yet..I think this should be made clear to your WH..

It is okay for your WH to know that the coast IS NOT CLEAR in your M and that it will be some time yet before you can decide whether or not there was too much damage done to be repaired..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 12:06 PM, November 4th (Monday)]


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1251 | Registered: Nov 2011
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Surely you should only be doing 180 if you plan to leave. If what people are saying its to get YOU strong, get you used to being without your H or W ... then that means your ready to leave!

Basically, yes Ė or are at least considering it because they arenít being transparent/remorseful/truthful, or they wonít stop seeing OW. If they donít Ďget ití and you have set the boundary that you will not stay in a marriage without these things. If you are in R, why on earth would you even want to 180? It isnít just something to do because there was infidelity.

Trust your instincts. OK, then youíre choosing not to do the 180. It is a set way to behave. If you take what you want and leave the rest (most of the rest) then youíre just doing a few things you think will help.

I do want to ask Ė how is being nice to your WS, not mentioning the A or OM/OW, still having sex with them, and being cheerful doing anything except telling them that what they are doing is great? If they arenít being remorseful/truthful, etc, and you act like this? Youíll definitely get more of the same.

Iím sorry Ė but two pages of people have said no sex. One male says yes, he got sex from his WW, and thatís the answer. It seems more like you want someone to agree with you and not actual advice. Thatís fine, but you should rephrase the question so that you are asking for others that had sex and wonderful chatty conversations with a non-remorseful spouse and ask how it went for them, not ask if something is allowed.

Just my 2 cents. Iím not optimistic that being sweet, nice, not discussing the A and having sex is going to bring about any change at all, but I do wish you the very best of luck.



The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, November 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just trying to figure out some mixed messages in here, is all.

Yeah justjim and trudi44 that is the hardest part. You are learning on the fly like the rest of us did. I am really sorry you have to go through this crap.

That said, and this will sound all glass half full, the 180 was a great experience for me personally. I broke off emotionally from my W and just made plans for me and my kids. Someone else on here said you can consider Not Divorcing as an option. I fully endorse that.

I really like ladies first's analogy, however I would add that when the bombs start going off you are tossed way off balance. For me that is what the 180 is all about, getting your balance back.

"If you've got time for recreational sex, then IMHO you've got enough time to chart the direction of you future life -- with or without your partner."

I see no reason why you can't do both. You life does not depend on you making a choice the split second or even year after d-day.

I stopped loving my W, but had three kids and a women who just happened to be their mother. I needed time to think about what I wanted to do. Meanwhile, my W was dazed as well. She said she didn't want a D, reported to have stopped seeing OM, but the hell what did I know. I simply did not believe anything that came out of her mouth. So I decided why should I rush into D? Why should I disrupt my life right now when I nor she knows what to do? I am not a knee jerk reaction guy who needs absolutes to move forward. I take my time and plan. So I kept the lines of communications open with her, told exactly the above. Then, I laid out what I needed her to do for me to consider a long term relationship with her again. Those things could not be accomplished over night so I was at a place in the middle. I had time. I took that time for me to figure out how I wanted my M to look and how I wanted to move forward. I treated it as a watershed moment.

Regarding the sex question. Seems to be highly person one to me. A requirement for me staying M'd and eventually R included some very specific sexual things from my W. Those started while I was still in the 180. As with most things in life there is a flow, its not yes or no. I am going to guess that not everyone approaches sex the same way. Moreover, it changes over time and given levels of closeness and intimacy. I wanted my W to perform. I wanted her to prove she was in. That's not love, that not respect - that is where I was with her post D-day.

I think people get caught up in absolutes. At some point you stop the 180 or someone makes an epic change. There are critical moments in development of anything, but typically change happens in small increments.

Again, if you want a road map I a can't help you. For me it was more about backing off from the M and my W and deciding what I wanted. Meanwhile, I see nothing wrong with getting it on, its just about how you look at it.

Take care and I really wish you the best. Look out for yourself first and foremost and I hope you S's turn around.

[This message edited by wert at 2:03 PM, November 4th (Monday)]



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
Topic Posts: 40
Pages: 1 · 2

Return to Forum: General Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.