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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: He "carpooled" with his former EA today - WS please help
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just found out that my WS "carpooled" with his former EA today, to an all day seminar an hour away. He thought there was nothing wrong with it because another woman rode with them and he "sat in the back." He said he didn't sit near her at the seminar.

I found out by accident, when I suspected and asked him. He said he didn't tell me "because I didn't want a confrontation, like I'm getting right now." He is unrepentant, defensive, and resentful.

This is someone who FINALLY sent her a no contact email last week, 4 months after he originally said he would, and ONLY after the MC gave him a hard time about it. I think he's resentful because I caught him just as the EA was ramping up, and subsequently convinced himself that that nothing more would *really* have happened.

He could have easily driven separately. We have no financial constraints.

I told him he was just thinking about himself, that he behaved selfishly, and that it's still all about him. That if he wanted to earn back my trust, he could have told me in advance, and I would have told him that I felt insecure about it. That if he'd been transparent, I would trust him more; and that by hiding it and doing as he likes, he makes it even worse.

He refuses to tell me about any of his interactions with her, because he's convinced it will make things worse, and cites this as evidence he's right.

Is there any more advice you can give me, or do I wait yet again for the MC to explain it to him? Advice from WS's is especially appreciated, because I'm beginning to give up on our marriage.


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, maybe 20th soon?
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2013
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hpv)))

I'm so sorry to say this, but it looks like he hasn't come clean about the extent of the A, he's continuing the A, and he's completely remorseless.

Normal people don't need to be told what is the right thing to do and what is wrong.

If he sent her a NC email last week, when did they plan to carpool?

I'm so sorry, but I think you need to contact a lawyer and 180- both to protect YOU.


Posts: 11403 | Registered: Mar 2008
Kelany
♀ Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh my fucking god.

1. His affair is not over.
2. Stop explaining. He gets it, he doesn't care.
3. Stop MC, it isn't working with someone who isn't ready to R.
4. Hefty bag his shit onto the front lawn and call a lawyer. At the very least the hardest 180 ever.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found out by accident, when I suspected and asked him. He said he didn't tell me "because I didn't want a confrontation, like I'm getting right now." He is unrepentant, defensive, and resentful.

((hpv50))

You asked, so (recovering) lying, cheating Wayward perspective here. He is lying his ass off! Pants. On. Fire. I'm so sorry you're dealing with his belligerence after all he's put you through. That is unfair and just downright evil.

How are you feeling? Your tone here is remarkably calm. Were I you, I'd be wondering how much other stuff he got away with, that I didn't accidentally catch. I would be livid.

do I wait yet again for the MC to explain it to him?

Cancel your MC appointment and see an attorney instead. Not saying D, but (if you haven't yet) just find out what D/S looks like for you. MC is for couples who are both "all in." He's clearly not.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1045 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, November 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WW here. I'm sorry, I agree. He's lying. I think it's very likely he hasn't admitted the extent of the A. If he's carpooling and seeing her at work and won't tell you about it the EA is NOT over (if it was just an EA).

180, talk to a lawyer, get your ducks in a row to move on without him. Protect yourself. Do it for you. There is a chance he might pull his head out of his ass but don't be fooled. Take care of you.

MC is pointless with him right now. IC to help you get through this nightmare, and IC for him if he wants to own his shit and fix himself so he can become a decent human being who may at some point prove to be worthy of love.

180, 180, 180!!!!!

Edit: to fix typos and say I'm so sorry you are going through this! You deserve so much better.

[This message edited by knightsbff at 11:42 PM, November 7th (Thursday)]


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1391 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 5:46 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS here. Everyone has made the suggestions and observations that make sense in your sad situation (and which deep down you already know, too).

I'm "educated guessing" one more thing: that what you know right now in terms of the extent and nature of his cheating with this AP and likely other AP's is just the tip of the iceberg.

Don't know why I feel that but I do. I hope his fog will lift and the complete truth will surface.

JD


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh my fucking god.
1. His affair is not over.
2. Stop explaining. He gets it, he doesn't care.
3. Stop MC, it isn't working with someone who isn't ready to R.
4. Hefty bag his shit onto the front lawn and call a lawyer. At the very least the hardest 180 ever.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

If he sent an NC letter last week and then did this, I can only imagine the chuckles they had about that NC letter.

He is completely full of shit. What an ass. Get a box of hefty bags and start loading.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1739 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if there's ever a thread that screams, "when people show you who they are, believe them." this one is it!

I'm so sorry hpv. I would be gone.

[This message edited by rachelc at 6:04 AM, November 8th (Friday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4525 | Registered: Dec 2010
Sammy2013
♀ Member
Member # 41040
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so sorry Hpv50, but everyone is right. The affair isn't over. He took way to long to write the NC. And keeping this from you to avoid a fight is a red flag. My WH did this. Said he had to go to Chicago to see his boss, but didn't tell me because he knew it would be an issue for me (at this point he had admitted an EA). Said he didn't see her and was just trying to protect me. A week later I found out he slept with her for the second time in that trip.

(((Hugs))). I recommend an attorney and 180.


WH -37; BS (me) 38
Married 12 years, 3 kiddos
First DDay 9/13. 3 more since then (trickle truth sucks). 6 years of Prostitutes, 2 affairs in 2013, SA diagnosis now with 1 relapse so far (massage parlor with happy ending 2/14).
Waiting, observing,

Posts: 207 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Southeast United States
hitbyatruck
♀ Member
Member # 23769
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have MC explain what to him? That stabbing you with the knife hurts? Oh...then he'll get it because a third party spells it out for him.

Come on, he knew exactly what he was doing. He was hoping not to get caught but if he did it is your fault for being mad about it.

Lawyer. 180. get ducks in a row.


Married 1998, 2 kids
D-day3/27/09,he left 5/23/09
WH wants to rebuild 3/21/10
He moved back in 9/25/10,
Dec, 2011-finally putting it all together, H had multiple affairs.
Possible porn addict for 15 yrs.
01/2014- in house separation

Posts: 3279 | Registered: Apr 2009
JKL Vikings
♂ Member
Member # 32094
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH here..
To Mr Hpv 50, I quote my favorite tennis player of all time, John McEnroe:
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!! Your affair has beaten your wife to an inch of her life.. And now you think it's OK to car-pool with her??
He's smoking something, and I'm not talking about Marlboros or Camels
(((((hpv50))))
Even if your H is no longer active in the affair, he's looking for a "fix". Any interaction with the OW should be business only. And he sure as hell has no reason to be in a car with her. Even if there was someone else present. At best, he's clueless. At worst, he flat-out doesn't care. scenario 1 is fixable with A LOT of work. The 2nd. Cut your losses and run. I'm usually a love conquers all romantic. That is, if the people are willing to put in the work. Your H doesn't seem to be. I am so sorry.


Her- Alpha Female 40
Me-FWH 41
Married since '02, together since 2000
D-day 2/10/2009
3 sons- J- born Oct 2001
K- born Sept. 2005
L- born Apr. 2008
We ALL have issues. It's how we deal with them that makes the difference

Posts: 515 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Dallas, TX
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hpv)))

I agree with SamanthaBaker!! You either stop him now or he will continue to walk all over you and your marriage!

I am sooo sorry!

Dont pass stop go straight to a lawyer if it was me.. How evil of him..


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3185 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’m a little confused about something. If you were diagnosed with HPV, why do you believe it was an EA and not a PA? It seems that he was definitely doing more that talking to someone.

I’m sorry – he’s really not remorseful, or even regretful – except for you knowing about it. There is no justification, at all, for any of this. He isn’t invested in MC or the marriage right now and he’s a complete liar. I wouldn’t wait for MC for anything. I would start digging, hard, and I would contact an attorney, and yes, I’d tell him to leave. Doing less is giving him permission to see her by way of lack of action. It screams that he can do what he wants, and other than you crying or getting upset, there are no consequences. He’ll never stop.

Kick him out. If he changes, ok – start the counseling again and take it from there. If not, well you saved yourself months or even years of heartache that will occur if you don’t take action.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1739 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hpv)))

After I responded to your post last night, I read your profile. You are being emotionally abused. I know it's hard for you to see because it's been that way for a while, but your H's behavior is not normal. Stop talking to him about this because he's just using your emotions to twist you up even further.

Based on my experience and the experiences of many others (witnessed here), I think he's having a PA. I know, you're thinking, "but he passed a poly...", but I also know there a few people who CAN lie and pass a poly, and I believe he's one of them. I should probably tell you that, based on that same experience, I don't believe in EAs if the APs have ever been in physical proximity to each other. You can ask the WSs here, but As usually go really fast from talking to everything else. If I were you, I'd stop asking questions and hire a PI. It will hurt to see the evidence, but I think you need to see it/hear it from someone other than him because he's just lying.

I'm so sorry.


Posts: 11403 | Registered: Mar 2008
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few more details on the NC may be helpful:

The MC hadn't known that my WS had agreed to a NC 4 months ago; he then repeatedly gave my WS a hard time during the session. That afternoon, my WS went to work (the woman is in the office next to him) and told her that a. I had seen the two of them together 4 months ago in what could be construed as a "compromising" situation (where she was hanging into his body space); and b. I had subsequently read and misinterpreted some of his emails, and now thought there was something going on between them; c. he thought they should be more professional.

In a nutshell: my crazy wife misconstrued this and it's not my fault. That night I threw his clothes into the front yard, and the next morning, he sent the woman a true NC owning the situation. Last week, at our next MC session, he said that he had approached the OW after he sent the NC email, and asked her if she had any questions about it; then he told our MC (in an indignant voice): "now she's (OW) giving me the cold shoulder!" Both the MC and I let that pass (it was a the very end of the session),, and now this "carpool."

Yes, I am very calm about the whole situation after 4 months of great IC, antidepressants, and time. I'm beginning to detach and see it for what it is: at best, I'm trying to squeeze water from a rock. I dont think he values me, really, rather, he values the "marital assets" of kids, house, and convenience. My therapist is convinced he's a low level narcissist, which I'm slowly beginning to agree with.

I spoke with WS a few minutes ago, and he said he's "sorry you feel hurt" . He also siad it didn't occur to him that carpooling would be a problem because "she's no longer a threat." He also said he didn't think about me at all when he decided to carpool. And it's possible that's true, because really, it's all about him.

As for my hpv: my profile is long-winded, but I was diagnosed with it in April, and that's how I found out about this EA deal.

It's not what he did, it's what he's doing right now that's killing our marriage.


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, maybe 20th soon?
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2013
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JKL Vikings: thanks. I think you are spot-on. I think he's still looking for a fix of sorts; my therapist says he needs the OWs approval, likes to be the hero. He also is partially clueless and, I think, weird about being controlled (dismissive avoidant, I believe it's called). He wants to do what he wants to do, and resents my interference. Boundaries are control, period.

He says he loves me often (and he too says "love will conquer all), but he seems to have a block of sorts - no real empathy towards me. Regret, anger and defensiveness, not remorse. Occasionally says he's sorry but not often. Goes to MC but doesn't work terribly hard at it outside the sessions.

My IC thinks I should give it more time because she's utterly convinced he's depressed, and depressed people have trouble empathizing. She says he's doing the best he can and thinks I will regret it if I leave too soon. She's in direct touch weekly with my MC, who in turn is in direct contact with WS's IC.


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, maybe 20th soon?
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 129 | Registered: Jun 2013
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he had approached the OW after he sent the NC email, and asked her if she had any questions about it;
Excuse me, but was he dropped on his head??? What part of NO CONTACT does he not understand??? He sent the letter, then turned right around and broke it.

He also siad it didn't occur to him that carpooling would be a problem because "she's no longer a threat."
She most certainly is. Actually, any woman is. Because your husband doesn't have a clue. He does not "get it".


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6063 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am sorry

Oh my fucking god.
1. His affair is not over.
2. Stop explaining. He gets it, he doesn't care.
3. Stop MC, it isn't working with someone who isn't ready to R.
4. Hefty bag his shit onto the front lawn and call a lawyer. At the very least the hardest 180 ever.


^^^^yeah, no excuses for him. Save yourself and find a lawyer asap.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaďs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3775 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
TXMommy
♀ Member
Member # 28857
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm confused as to how this is an emotional affair if you got HPV from him?

Honestly, I don't think you know the whole truth. This situation just SCREAMS lies to me. Is he possibly NPD (narcissistic personality disorder)?
All AP's are to a point, but all this blameshifting, and only thinking of himself... you throw his clothes on the lawn and THEN he makes a move to NC. Small, insignificant, and blaming you the entire time.
I really do agree that if you can hire a PI, do it. And, you definitely need to 180 and talk to a lawyer.


ME - BS - 33
WH - 30
Married 9 years, together 11
2 kids: D8, S2
D-Day: June 10th, 2010
Trudging through R.

Posts: 593 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: TX
BeyondBreaking
♀ Member
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It sends very mixed messaged to you AND the OW if he sends a NC letter, and then carpools with her a week later. NC means NC. Period.

He said he didn't tell me "because I didn't want a confrontation, like I'm getting right now."

He refuses to tell me about any of his interactions with her, because he's convinced it will make things worse, and cites this as evidence he's right.

I think that these two sentances tell it all. He is:
-Not willing to be upfront with you and open
-Not considering or caring about your feelings
-Not willing to break contact with her right now
-Not willing to be honest with you and tell you the truth

The fact that he won't be honest with you about his interactions with her and his reasoning is that you will get mad and things will get worse tell me that he is continuing to be inappropriate and continuing the EA.

I would stop MC, and 180. There is no need to waste anymore time or money on trying to fix a relationship he has not committed to.


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
Topic Posts: 30
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